kepla

I am sure my 190E has got a death wish
Unfortunately, it has one of those 'automatic' gearboxes which - I imagine - are there for those people who are either too lazy or lack the intelligence to change gear for themselves. In my case, my left leg suffered a little damage in a motorcycle accident about thirty years ago so I find using a clutch continuously through city traffic to get painfull after a while.
Any, back to my 'death-wish' car:
I dunno what its like for the rest of you around the world, but here in Britain it is often necessary to make a turn across an on-coming lane of traffic. The technique has to be to wait for a suitable gap in the opposing line and then hit it big time with your right boot - pedal to the metal - and yourself through the gap and to the safety of the other side before the next vehicle reaches you.
In a normal manual transmission car you would basically perform a first-gear racing start and hope that none of your passengers necks are injured by the G forces of your acceleration. With an automatic you just floor the throttle and let the car set off the best it can in first. More revs = more torque = more acceleration. I'm sure this isn't 'news' to anybody here.
Anyway:
My 190E has a habbit which is more than just annoying, it is downright dangerous. It hasn't just started to behave like this, it has always done it. Thnaks to a change of location, my regular driving route has changed and made the 'death wish' behaviour far more noticeable.
Well, you spot a likely gap in the opposing traffic and, as the last car beore the gap has just passed, floor the throttle expecting to leap accross the traffic lane in one mighty surge of acceleration and power. Instead, the 190E gradually decides to trundle ponderously accross the lane of opposing traffic as if it had all the time in the world. This is despite the fact that your right foot has the accelerator cable stretched beyond belief while your right foot is supplying enough pressure to modify the shape of the floor. As you and your 190E roll sedately accross the opposing traffic lane you notice that your safety gap has now reached its end and hope that the on-coming car drivers will consider making use of their brakes and not just sounding their horns !
Just as you are eventually completing the manoeuver, after what seems like an eternity of staring at the front of an approaching car (whose driver is engrossed in a phone conversation and hasn't yet paid you much attention) your 190E decides that it is about time that it took the hint, changes down from second to first, and roars away like a rocket taking off !
Quick as a flash, while you and the 190E appear to be teleported out of harms way, the other drivers decide that now would be a suitable time to cast their vote on your driving competance by sounding their horns.
Any passengers you have with you wonder what the hell you were playing at.
The 190E continues on its merry way as if nothing is amiss.
You wonder what the hell is going on. Disbelieving that Mercedes could have designed a car which doesn't use first gear for moving off but shifts down to it later on. Hoping that both main dealers workshops were mistaken when they gave your car a clean bill of health, despite the expense. Relieved to have survived the nightmare one more time.

85Cosworth

Had same problem on my '92 190E 2.6 My fuel injectors were clogged. After my mechanic cleaned them out it took care of the hesitation. That and new spark plugs. You might try that.

kepla

Thanks for the tips, but engine running perfectly - injectors are squeaky clean and ignition system in tip-top condition !
The problem is that the automatic gearbox decides that it will move off in second gear at first and then eventually kick-down into first after a while. Two separate stealerships are insisting that the car has no fault at all, but the car continues with its suicidal behaviour !
I find it difficult to beieve that one of the world's best car makers could have intentionally designed a car to behave so dangerously - but two of their 'offical' main dealers say it is performing as intended.
The way it is I am going to have to stop driving it before it kills me !

iamvivek

What you can do is start it off in "2" (on the auto trans) that way it will start in 1st gear.

.Vivek

Stiggs

Get an AMG!

LeftCoastBias

you can adjust the throttle and force the car to shift in higher revs. i had to do that to my 2.3; it was shifting into higher gears at revs too low for my needs.


i'll try to drum up some photos and links to what you're looking for.

kepla

Yeah, like I'm THAT rich !
Sounds like a possible compromise for a short while untill the car decides to work properly. Thanks - I'll try it !
I think I know what you mean, but wouldn't that mean that it would change from second up to third and from third up to fourth somewhat later as well ? Not quite the solution I was hoping for as that would probably have some adverse affect on fuel economy, and with fuel prices the way they are in Britain we need to IMPROVE fuel economy and not worsen it. Anyhow, wouldn't exactly the same effect be produced by driving around with the box in 'Sport' mode instead of 'Economy' ?
I really don't think that this problem is associated with the kickdown engine revs as even if I move off with the engine barely faster than tick-over, the box is still in second ! I can then absolutely floor the throttle and there seems to be a very noticeable time delay before the box 'gets the message' and changes down to first. It is as if the box has some sort of time-delay fault in it.
Oddly enough, or maybe just as you would expect. my other car (Jaguar) has - according to a place I have work done on the cars - essentially the same auto box as the Mercedes. The Jaguar ALWAYS pulls away in first and then changes up to second once you are moving depending on all the usual factors, including the setting of the sport/economy switch. This seems to be a Mercedes fault as apparently some BMW models also use this box and don't have the problem.
Also, there is ANOTHER auto box problem which the Mercedes is showing but is absent on other cars using a similar box.
With a Jaguar, BMW or Volvo when you hit a reasonable highway speed of somewhere between about 55 and 65 mph the fluid-flywheel-auto-clutch stops slipping and sort of 'locks up' to give you a totally solid drive provided you have got up to fourth. The result is that the car then has the feel and economy of a manual transmision - even including the engine braking efect. As you drop below the 'threshold' speed, or if you hit the throttle hard and kick-down to another gear, the fluid-clutch reverts to its normal auto-slipping behaviour. This has been a 'feature' of those cars for around twenty years now. For some reason, even though it uses a similar auto gear box, the Mercedes does not do this and the auto-fluid-clutch continues to slip at any speed. You can be doing 90 and 'play' with the throttle and see the revs go up and down even though the car's speed is pretty constant.
What's wrong here ? Have I got a car with a faulty auto gear box or are all Mercedes this bad.

dwvr

my 1984 190e has a similer problem, iv foudn the best way to reduce the delay is to switch down to '2' (you would think that with a gearbox like that they would at least allow you to select first) and slam the pedel to the floor. i have found that if the car is at a dead stop it will rev wildly and launch itself without going into second first. (mine also emits its cloaking device.... a whole heap of blueish smoke from a oil leak tht was supposidly fixed....)

so there it is, to avoid looking like a brainless daredevil maniac, you have to thrash your engine and be a complete revhead.
hope this helped

kepla

I'm driving a fourteen year old car which has only done 27000 miles and I am hoping to keep it in good condition for a very long time ! Even if I was driving a worthless wreck I doubt I could bring myself to abuse the engine like that !
If I actually wanted to wreck my engine I'd just put sand in with the oil instead of an anti-friction additive.
I have tried setting off with the box held in second and it does seem to do the correct thing and pull away in first. It pulls nice and strongly too, without having to rev the nuts off the engine either ! The question still remains: what is causing this funeral-procession-like behaviour when pulling away normally ? Did Mercedes really manage to get it that wrong ?
I am still wondering about the lack of cruising-speed-clutch-lock like I mentioned before. I know that auto gear boxes of forty and fifty years ago just used to allow the fluid flywheel clutch to continue slipping however fast you were travelling, but I thought that more modern cars would all have the 'auto lock' feature.
Has my Mercedes got another fault or is this just another design 'feature' I have to get used to ?

ptoro01

get your throttle linkage and kickdown linkage adjusted and make sure your kickdown switch works properly. With age the cables tend to stretch giving your car a different feel.

MTI

Mercedes designed the 2nd gear start primarily for fuel economy. The W201 and the W124 were so designed. There were aftermarket companies that modified the vacuum valve so that the 2nd gear start could be overcome with a console mounted switch. That's not to be confused with the S/E switch that Mercedes offered, which merely offered an even softer shifting program to save even more fuel.

DarkCreep

Mine does the same thing. If I floor it, it down shifts, but if I really floor it to where I push that button down by the pedal (little round quarter like one) then it shifts down 2 gears and I really feel the VTEC.

And yes, I hate it when im at a stop, and in second and when I floor it the car takes off in second instead of first. The only way I can get it to start off in first is if I baby the pedal till like 10MPH, then slam it and my neck hits the back of the seat. Pretty quick then.

kepla

Everything is adjusted bang 'on spec' and the kickdown is fine during normal driving. This fault only occurs when setting off.
I find it difficult to believe that Mercedes, who are supposed to make decent cars, managed to make such a mistake in design as this and on two different models too !
I'm now looking to get rid of the 190E (it now has done 28000 miles) before it manages to kill me ! Looking for offers on the 190E and a Jaguar to replace it with.

MTI

kepla, what you call a fault, others might call a feature. As described, there is a procedure for initiating a first gear start without having to rev the engine for your particular driving issue. There is also the option of fitting a manual gearbox for the automatic. There seems to be quite a few Cosworths being broken for spares on UK eBay.

pentoman

I normal driving it will pull away in 2nd. You need to be very sharp on the accelerator from a standstill to get it to start in 1st. Even then, it will only start in 1st gear if you are in 'S' mode, not in 'E'.

Pushing it to the point of clicking the kickdown switch should also ensure it starts in 1st, and also bypasses the 'E' mode on the switch.

Or just put the stick in '2' position. Even if you move it back to 'D' the car should stay in 1st gear when you pull away.

PhilipM1

I dont seem to have an "S" button on my 93, 190 2.6, Am i supposed to? Or was that an upgrade that my car never got?

pentoman

They didn't have them in the US. The car is in 'S' mode by default if you don't have the switch.

kepla

I would be driving a manual if it wasn't for my damaged left knee - I don't drive automatics by choice you know !
Anyway, the attempted 'racing starts' (which I didn't really want to have to indulge in) while not seeming to damage the engine are taking their toll on the car. The rear axle is now whining away merrily - to the extent where I cannot enjoy the radio - and is getting worse ! I've checked the diff oil and it is at the right level and clean, and splodged some molyslip in to try to help preserve it a bit longer.
So now I can't even sell the car (for any decent amount of cash) as it has a faulty differential. I think it must have heard me moaning about the lousy second-gear take off and decided to get its own back !
Okay, the car might be 14 years old but it has only done 28000 miles - I know this as I have ALL the MOT certificates. How the hell can a diff start whining after only 28000 miles ?
I am rapidly losing confidence in Mercedes and starting to worry what will go wrong next.

MTI

The longevity of any car, whether it's a Fiat or a Mercedes, will greatly depend on the maintenance given by previous owners. At 28K miles, over 14 years, suggests that the car wasn't driven much, which can be as troubling as being driven to high mileage. One has to wonder what the previous owners did for fluid changes, whether they spent the money based on mileage or months.

kepla

Servicing ?
My Dad had the car from it being about two years old for ten years and had it serviced every year at the same time as the MOT test was due. As well as the old MOT certificates I also have the invoices for servicing and whatever other work the car needed. Over those ten years not much more than a set of tyres and a few bulbs.
The car was used frequently, four or five journeys a week typically, but not very long journeys.
It is driven fairly gently and has never been used for towing so I'm quite puzzled as to how the differential could be wearing out so very quickly. It has the smallest engine option you can get in a 190, and through an auto box too, so I would have expected it to cover a few hundred thousand miles without problems !

MTI

Well, check your records and let us know when they indicate that the differential fluids were drained and refreshed, and at what mileage.