W210 ECU swap - security lockup ?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: MA
W210 E300 turbo diesel
W210 ECU swap - security lockup ?
just got a ECU from the junkyard,
mine W210 E300 TD 99 ,
can I just swap the ECU, or will it crap out, not start, lockup ?
does it have some sort of security / theft code inside ?
haven't checked the dealer, how much to reprogram it
also the ECU I got from the junkyard, was a non turbo,
but same partnumber A 025 545 55 92
idea behind it, to keep the stock one, and have the other
reflashed , chip tuned, possible with EGR delete,
and still swap to original, if needed .
what you think ?
just hate to try it, and possible having a dead car, needing a tow to the stealer,......
also , how to reset that thing, don't think a generic obd will do,
and don't have a mercedes tool ....
any recommendations ?
mine W210 E300 TD 99 ,
can I just swap the ECU, or will it crap out, not start, lockup ?
does it have some sort of security / theft code inside ?
haven't checked the dealer, how much to reprogram it
also the ECU I got from the junkyard, was a non turbo,
but same partnumber A 025 545 55 92
idea behind it, to keep the stock one, and have the other
reflashed , chip tuned, possible with EGR delete,
and still swap to original, if needed .
what you think ?
just hate to try it, and possible having a dead car, needing a tow to the stealer,......
also , how to reset that thing, don't think a generic obd will do,
and don't have a mercedes tool ....
any recommendations ?
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 731
Likes: 1
W210 W140
It won't work if you swap them outright. The ECU's get "mated" to the specific car they are installed in. I had to purchase a remanufactured unit from Mercedes after mine crapped out. It was quite expensive.
There may be some way to get it reprogrammed though. Please post updates on what happens with your project.
There may be some way to get it reprogrammed though. Please post updates on what happens with your project.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: MA
W210 E300 turbo diesel
found some notes
All DAS Versions
Note the following when testing DAS systems:
• DAS or RCL module replacement means that all of the remote transmitters and transponder keys must be synchronized and version-coded using the factory scan tool.
• The ME control module and either the EIS (DAS 3) or DAS control module are electronically permanently married to each other after 40 engine starts. There is no factory procedure to undo this. This means that a used engine, EIS or DAS control unit cannot be used on another vehicle. A new control unit can be installed for testing provided the 40 engine starts are not exceeded. Note that the new control unit must be variant coded before it can be used. Technicians have reported successfully resetting the counter to 0 on a test ECU at about count 20 by removing the version coding and ECU power for 10 to 30 minutes.
now still don't believe , the permanent part,
since that would mean, any mercedes used ECU is useless !!
do believe a dealership can reprogam the ECU, but don't know, what they would charge ?!
the other thing, even if reprogrammed, I want to be able to swap if needed,
and not beeing stuck with the new flashed one, aka. can't swap back.
so looks like , you can't borrow an ECU while having one chip tuned ,
and can't swap either. so no car for 2-3 days.
anybody knows of some tools to program ECU's ?
All DAS Versions
Note the following when testing DAS systems:
• DAS or RCL module replacement means that all of the remote transmitters and transponder keys must be synchronized and version-coded using the factory scan tool.
• The ME control module and either the EIS (DAS 3) or DAS control module are electronically permanently married to each other after 40 engine starts. There is no factory procedure to undo this. This means that a used engine, EIS or DAS control unit cannot be used on another vehicle. A new control unit can be installed for testing provided the 40 engine starts are not exceeded. Note that the new control unit must be variant coded before it can be used. Technicians have reported successfully resetting the counter to 0 on a test ECU at about count 20 by removing the version coding and ECU power for 10 to 30 minutes.
now still don't believe , the permanent part,
since that would mean, any mercedes used ECU is useless !!
do believe a dealership can reprogam the ECU, but don't know, what they would charge ?!
the other thing, even if reprogrammed, I want to be able to swap if needed,
and not beeing stuck with the new flashed one, aka. can't swap back.
so looks like , you can't borrow an ECU while having one chip tuned ,
and can't swap either. so no car for 2-3 days.
anybody knows of some tools to program ECU's ?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: MA
W210 E300 turbo diesel
anybody tried to read / write to the ECU via carsoft ?
7.4 , 7.6 ? any luck ?
the KWP2000 plus, ain't doing much of anything ? a problem
I mean, the european CDI's and diesels listed,
though it would read/write the BOSCH EDC's ,
how to find out ?
7.4 , 7.6 ? any luck ?
the KWP2000 plus, ain't doing much of anything ? a problem
I mean, the european CDI's and diesels listed,
though it would read/write the BOSCH EDC's ,
how to find out ?
Super Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 731
Likes: 1
W210 W140
-To you second question: I don't really understand your second question. People sell all sorts of junk and crap on ebay. Why can't used ECU's be sold? You can sell anything you want on ebay. The seller is probably ignorant to the fact that the ECU can't be re-used.
I tried your route of finding a used ECU when mine went bad. I was quite thorough with my research and in the end had to go with a reman unit direct from Mercedes.
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Newbie
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
1992 W124 500E, 1987 190E 2.3-16v
Used Benz ECU can be virginized
Some used ECU's can be virginized and mated to an existing immo in Benz cars. For example, on a 1996 W210 E230, the ECU has the info in a 24C02 chip. If your old ECU has a readable chip, you can move this over to a used ECU and your immo (IFZ/DAS for old Benzes) will think it is still
talking to the old ECU. I have done this a number of times and it works.
There are ways to hack into the ECU to put it in what is called a "virgin" state. Once it is in a virgin state, you can mount it and use Star Diagnostics to mate it with the other components. One step usually done is to do Variant coding to put back the original specs of the car (Based on the VIN). For newer benzes, this approach does not work. They require SCN coding which means you need to get a code from Mercedes.
talking to the old ECU. I have done this a number of times and it works.
There are ways to hack into the ECU to put it in what is called a "virgin" state. Once it is in a virgin state, you can mount it and use Star Diagnostics to mate it with the other components. One step usually done is to do Variant coding to put back the original specs of the car (Based on the VIN). For newer benzes, this approach does not work. They require SCN coding which means you need to get a code from Mercedes.
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Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 890
Likes: 4
From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
Some used ECU's can be virginized and mated to an existing immo in Benz cars. There are ways to hack into the ECU to put it in what is called a "virgin" state. Once it is in a virgin state, you can mount it and use Star Diagnostics to mate it with the other components. One step usually done is to do Variant coding to put back the original specs of the car (Based on the VIN).
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
W210 E300D
You'll need to find people in your area, that reset Air Bags/SRS or possibly correct milage, they'll typically have experience required to do this.
As far as I know there's two methods, one if both ECUs are identical(HW version) the chip can be simply transplanted from the old unit to the new.
The other as baitou has mentioned, you wipe out the chip, to return it to 'vergin' state.
Programs like Car Soft are capable of doing version coding, but in order to access the chips in question you'll need to physically open up the ECU, so they're not much help here.
Dealerships won't do this for you either, most likely they don't know how even if they wanted to...
I would really recommend contacting someone with experience to do this job, unless you have extensive experience working with electronics, because even if you somehow find all the necessary info, if you attempt the job yourself something as small as bad solder connection can ruin your ECU and/or strand you somewhere because the car won't run anymore...
As for them being permanently mated, that is 100% true, because as far as an average Joe and Dealerships for that matter are concerned, there is no way to Rewrite ECUs part of the memory which stores Immo data once the 10 starts have expired.
Good luck.
As far as I know there's two methods, one if both ECUs are identical(HW version) the chip can be simply transplanted from the old unit to the new.
The other as baitou has mentioned, you wipe out the chip, to return it to 'vergin' state.
Programs like Car Soft are capable of doing version coding, but in order to access the chips in question you'll need to physically open up the ECU, so they're not much help here.
Dealerships won't do this for you either, most likely they don't know how even if they wanted to...
I would really recommend contacting someone with experience to do this job, unless you have extensive experience working with electronics, because even if you somehow find all the necessary info, if you attempt the job yourself something as small as bad solder connection can ruin your ECU and/or strand you somewhere because the car won't run anymore...
As for them being permanently mated, that is 100% true, because as far as an average Joe and Dealerships for that matter are concerned, there is no way to Rewrite ECUs part of the memory which stores Immo data once the 10 starts have expired.
Good luck.
Super Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 890
Likes: 4
From: Boise, ID, USA
300D, 500E, E420
It looks like Beckmann can unlock the modules... haven't called for a price yet though:
http://www.beckmanntechnologies.com/products.php
There is no way for the dealer to unlock them, the normal HHT/SDS does not have this capability.
http://www.beckmanntechnologies.com/products.php
There is no way for the dealer to unlock them, the normal HHT/SDS does not have this capability.
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
2001 E320 4Matic Wagon
Sorry for posting to an old discussion but I am VERY grateful for this thread. I may be calling the tow truck Monday morning. It very much looks like EIS problems and would like to know options before opening up the chequebook. My car is a 2001 E320 4matic wagon.
Symptoms:
Key started being "temperamental" a few days ago
More recently now it's difficult for it to turn at all
NOW even after the key is accepted the engine won't turn over
Battery was low but after charging/testing it is 12.75v
When key now turns to "2", lights for engine etc come on normal, but then a quick weird chime "bum bum" sounds and nothing from the starter, no click nothing.
NOW my question
I have seen sales of complete key/EIS/ECU for sale, and in fact around here in Ontario I could potentially pick a complete working car for less than $1000 delivered. But it seems like the pairing to the car itself is the issue. Does anyone know of anyone who has done the "swap all parts needed" approach to fixing this. At some point you could move it all over .. unless the VIN is etched in the wires ...
Thanks for any replies here. I like the possibility of just buying a donor car, stripping as much as I can in 2 weeks and then parting it out to the scrapyard.
Symptoms:
Key started being "temperamental" a few days ago
More recently now it's difficult for it to turn at all
NOW even after the key is accepted the engine won't turn over
Battery was low but after charging/testing it is 12.75v
When key now turns to "2", lights for engine etc come on normal, but then a quick weird chime "bum bum" sounds and nothing from the starter, no click nothing.
NOW my question
I have seen sales of complete key/EIS/ECU for sale, and in fact around here in Ontario I could potentially pick a complete working car for less than $1000 delivered. But it seems like the pairing to the car itself is the issue. Does anyone know of anyone who has done the "swap all parts needed" approach to fixing this. At some point you could move it all over .. unless the VIN is etched in the wires ...
Thanks for any replies here. I like the possibility of just buying a donor car, stripping as much as I can in 2 weeks and then parting it out to the scrapyard.
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
W210 E300D
If U are are mechanically inclined why not check the EIS power wires first? Maybe it's the starter. Did U check the price of the new EIS, they are wear and tear item and are known to fail, so getting a used one might not be worth it in the long run, not to mention that U will need to code the ECU and do the adaptations on it, so it might come back close to the price tag of new EIS and keys...
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 69
Likes: 4
From: Canada
C55 AMG
Another apology for posting to an old thread. So essentially, this means to do an engine swap, a new EIS (and keys) and a new ECU are needed to allow the "marrying" and "learning", correct? This would allow the 10 and 40-start cycles to get everything set. Would programming allow the VIN has to be coded to the EIS? I appreciate the inputs to this discussion. Thoughts?
Last edited by C55er; Jul 23, 2013 at 07:40 PM.
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
W210 E300D
U can install a used ECU + EIS if they're from the same car, or u can match a new(virgin) ECU to an existing EIS. You can also look into tuning companies I've seen some offering to 'virgin' your ECU on American cars, maybe they can do the same for MB, then you can indeed match a used EDU to your existing EIS. However there might be over limitations depending on the years possibly not any EIS can be matched to any ECU, best to stick to same part #s, or HW SW versions better yet.
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 69
Likes: 4
From: Canada
C55 AMG
So, we are lead to believe that you want to change engines---yes or no??
First, I am assuming you are replacing an engine with a same engine but newer--yes or no??
If the above is correct, simply take the ECU and EIS/keys from the old engine and away you go!
If this is a same engine, but without ECU/EIS/keys then the above is very applicable!!
First, I am assuming you are replacing an engine with a same engine but newer--yes or no??
If the above is correct, simply take the ECU and EIS/keys from the old engine and away you go!
If this is a same engine, but without ECU/EIS/keys then the above is very applicable!!
Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 161
Likes: 2
From: Ridgecrest, CA
M113 E50 6-speed, 2005 E55 AMG
Not true at all. They may have some of the tools, but the ability of knowing what to change is what you need. Beckmann, Accelerated Industries, and myself. Believe me, 3 1/2 years of searching. We're who you're stuck with.
Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 161
Likes: 2
From: Ridgecrest, CA
M113 E50 6-speed, 2005 E55 AMG
Well, first you may want to reread your quoted post---the issue is first to virginize the ECU. Second flash the ECU with the original file repeat original and third use DAS Xentry. That ain't rocket science with hardware costs to accomplish on and two under 100 bucks
The original files are available free on many tuner related forums.
I can appreciate that you want to create the illusion of difficulty, because you can charge much more for something that most weekender's can't comprehend----but give me a brake.
Now tuning engine ECU's---thats a different situation---I personally think it is a waste of time and money to pay for a something that voids most auto mfgs warranties, but Barnum was correct!!!
The original files are available free on many tuner related forums.
I can appreciate that you want to create the illusion of difficulty, because you can charge much more for something that most weekender's can't comprehend----but give me a brake.
Now tuning engine ECU's---thats a different situation---I personally think it is a waste of time and money to pay for a something that voids most auto mfgs warranties, but Barnum was correct!!!
First of all you didn't even ask what I charge? How is it that I'm creating an illusion of difficulty? It is difficult. Your process is extremely flawed, and I could go into detail on how and what, but the fact remains. You can't, and I can.
Please show me what EEproms to pull along with part numbers. Then make a video so that the people reading your posts have the deepest understanding and experience to be able to pull them properly without damaging the board. I have pictures of how many it took to get it down, want to see? Do you know what's under the EEproms? Or what to do about it?
Find the original immo file for a 113 153 60 79. Then find me the .bin for the stock engine parameters. Don't worry, I'll wait. I have those and a tuned 55K, 32K, 320 and many other files on standby. Along with 20-30 others and have the know-how on creating a virgin file from a married file...
By the way I'm one of those cheapie kind of guys and all of my necessary equipment cost north of $400 obviously not including DAS with developer.
We're not modding civic's here guy lol.
