Jun 10, 2015, 06:49 PM
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Carbon buildup on cgi engine valves ????
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 910
Likes: 0
From: North Scottsdale
06 C 350 2014 GLK350
Carbon buildup on cgi engine valves ????
Does anyone know what MBUSA position is on the potential for serious carbon buildup on intake valves with the new cgi engines? I have read horror stories of how this is a serious problem for other manufacturers of cgi engines. Is this something we will be able to prevent or will it simply be a non-warranty expense that we can look forward to?
I'm planning to buy a 2012 E350 but have some concerns if I'm buying into a reliability problem that doesn't yet have a solution.
Maybe someone from MB can give us some information to reassure us that it is not an issue with their engines. It would be irresponsible if they know there is a problem and we are going to let us suffer the consequences.
I'm planning to buy a 2012 E350 but have some concerns if I'm buying into a reliability problem that doesn't yet have a solution.
Maybe someone from MB can give us some information to reassure us that it is not an issue with their engines. It would be irresponsible if they know there is a problem and we are going to let us suffer the consequences.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 8
From: Chicago (Palos Park)
2023 CLA 250, 2021 GLC43, 2003 CLK320
this is the response I got from MB dealer mechanic I know when I asked bout this in the past
you can get carbon build up if you dont use 91+ octane, but all it will do is cause a ticking noise when cold. It could be fixed with some top engine cleaner. the 271.XXX engine is the only engine with head problems. you can put some top engine cleaner in the gas tank once or twice a year to prevent it.
Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: Pittsburgh
2012 E550
In the owner's manual it explicitly says to only purchase gas from the "Top Tier Gas" list found at TopTierGas.com. You may need to get the engine cleaned if you buy cheap gas. Worst case: a chunk of carbon breaks off and ends up in the catalytic converter. That is covered for 8yrs/80k miles by law in the US.
I had an Audi S5 that suffered greatly from this problem as I didn't know about the top tier gas list. I just thought putting 92+ octane in thinking that was enough. I was very wrong. Audi's design was bad because of the EGR system. A catchcan was supposed to be the work around.
I had an Audi S5 that suffered greatly from this problem as I didn't know about the top tier gas list. I just thought putting 92+ octane in thinking that was enough. I was very wrong. Audi's design was bad because of the EGR system. A catchcan was supposed to be the work around.
Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 233
Likes: 23
From: Texas Hill Country
2020 AMG GTR
In the owner's manual it explicitly says to only purchase gas from the "Top Tier Gas" list found at TopTierGas.com. You may need to get the engine cleaned if you buy cheap gas. Worst case: a chunk of carbon breaks off and ends up in the catalytic converter. That is covered for 8yrs/80k miles by law in the US.
I had an Audi S5 that suffered greatly from this problem as I didn't know about the top tier gas list. I just thought putting 92+ octane in thinking that was enough. I was very wrong. Audi's design was bad because of the EGR system. A catchcan was supposed to be the work around.
I had an Audi S5 that suffered greatly from this problem as I didn't know about the top tier gas list. I just thought putting 92+ octane in thinking that was enough. I was very wrong. Audi's design was bad because of the EGR system. A catchcan was supposed to be the work around.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 325
Likes: 18
From: Canada
W213, C238
Does anyone know what MBUSA position is on the potential for serious carbon buildup on intake valves with the new cgi engines? I have read horror stories of how this is a serious problem for other manufacturers of cgi engines. Is this something we will be able to prevent or will it simply be a non-warranty expense that we can look forward to?
I'm planning to buy a 2012 E350 but have some concerns if I'm buying into a reliability problem that doesn't yet have a solution.
Maybe someone from MB can give us some information to reassure us that it is not an issue with their engines. It would be irresponsible if they know there is a problem and we are going to let us suffer the consequences.
I'm planning to buy a 2012 E350 but have some concerns if I'm buying into a reliability problem that doesn't yet have a solution.
Maybe someone from MB can give us some information to reassure us that it is not an issue with their engines. It would be irresponsible if they know there is a problem and we are going to let us suffer the consequences.
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Super Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 584
Likes: 2
From: Los Angeles
2012 C250 Sport
I thought the problems w/ the BMWs and Audis didn't show up until around 40,000 mi? Might still be too early....
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Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: Pittsburgh
2012 E550
You are correct, but on the Audi forums, I am pretty sure Audi's design flaw was to pipe in the EGR past the PCV and directly into the intake using the assumption that the air had already gone through the PCV so no need to do it again. Since some engine oil could end up in the EGR, that is what causes the buildup. The idea for the S5 and RS4 was to install a catchcan between the EGR and Intake to try and reduce the amount of oil making into the intake. I do not know if Mercedes has this same problem.
Also, I never saw any threads complaining about carbon with the supercharged 3.0 for Audi. It was always the naturally aspirated direct injection engines.
Another note, besides bad gas, the only other thing that is really bad for the carbon buildup are short trips that don't allow the engine to reach operating temperature.
Also, I never saw any threads complaining about carbon with the supercharged 3.0 for Audi. It was always the naturally aspirated direct injection engines.
Another note, besides bad gas, the only other thing that is really bad for the carbon buildup are short trips that don't allow the engine to reach operating temperature.
Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 133
Likes: 2
From: Pittsburgh
2012 E550
I had a chunk of carbon break off at 52k miles in my 08 S5. It destroyed two of the 4 catalytic converters. All handled under warranty and they properly cleaned the intake after replacement.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,852
Likes: 196
From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
Saw the 2012 in your sig.....did you buy one? What was the answer you received about the carbon build up? I'm curious too as despite the increased power and better gas mileage offered by the DI engines I've read the carbon buildup has been an issue. One guy dyno'd his car and showed a 10% in a year (forgot the mileage) reduction in hp due to buildup in his Audi. I talked my daughter out of buying an IS250 because of the reports of required intake track cleaning. I've also read that oil becomes contaminated quicker. I hope these are early life problems that have been solved and MB is ahead of the game.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 333
Likes: 1
From: Sacramento, CA
E350 BT
Saw the 2012 in your sig.....did you buy one? What was the answer you received about the carbon build up? I'm curious too as despite the increased power and better gas mileage offered by the DI engines I've read the carbon buildup has been an issue. One guy dyno'd his car and showed a 10% in a year (forgot the mileage) reduction in hp due to buildup in his Audi. I talked my daughter out of buying an IS250 because of the reports of required intake track cleaning. I've also read that oil becomes contaminated quicker. I hope these are early life problems that have been solved and MB is ahead of the game.
http://www.bgfueltest.com/
Some manufacturers like Subaru and Nissan have a port injector along with the direct injector; I'm not sure of the reasoning, but the port injector will alleviate the carbon build up.
This is a very interesting report by BG.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,852
Likes: 196
From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
I read an article by a manufacturer's engineer that said the reason is efficiency. He stated that at higher RPMs the intake injectors are more efficient and DI more efficient at low RPMs. An MB mechanic told me "we're running out of engine stands" when I asked him if it was a problem. He said due to the variable induction tracts they couldn't clean the intake in situ. BMW owners are walnut shell blasting their intake tracts for about $1K. They are also installing baffled catch cans to varying degrees of success. I can't imagine MB letting this become and issue without an easier solution, they'd go broke pulling motors.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 333
Likes: 1
From: Sacramento, CA
E350 BT
I read an article by a manufacturer's engineer that said the reason is efficiency. He stated that at higher RPMs the intake injectors are more efficient and DI more efficient at low RPMs. An MB mechanic told me "we're running out of engine stands" when I asked him if it was a problem. He said due to the variable induction tracts they couldn't clean the intake in situ. BMW owners are walnut shell blasting their intake tracts for about $1K. They are also installing baffled catch cans to varying degrees of success. I can't imagine MB letting this become and issue without an easier solution, they'd go broke pulling motors.
