V710 Installation with Mik-Box - 2000 S500

[Skylaw]

For those frustrated with being limited to Mercedes-branded phones, MIK's Mik-Box solution has progressed to the point that it covers StarTac, TimePort, and V60 installations. I installed mine a week ago, and have been very happy with the results. The Mik-Box interface (http://www.mikbox.com) is an elegantly-designed, inexpensive, and simple to install device that allows the integration of a wide range of newer non-Mercedes Motorola phones (Nokia and Ericsson are also planned) with the COMAND system. The basic installation in my S500 took under an hour as a DIY project (and I am not an installation tech). My 2000 S500 was equipped with an OEM single-band, dual mode Motorola StarTac installation. The photos and observations supplement, but do not replace, those found in the phone bulletins on Paul H. D i c k's website (http://home.earthlink.net/~phdwebsite/index.htm), and the instructions provided with the Mik-Box. Installation work should be performed with the COMAND system power off and ignition off, key removed. This post deals with cars already having a StarTac installation, not just pre-wire. However, installation of a Portable Support Electronics (PSE) module and brackets, the PSE Y-cable, a dual-band linear compensator (and possibly an antenna switch) and brackets would permit the installation discussed below for pre-wired cars. I do not know why the photos below load out of sequence, I apologize. Photo 5 (which should be first) below shows what you find when you remove the left side trunk liner on the S500. See the phone bulletins on Paul's site for detailed instructions on how to do this. Because my OE StarTac installation was a single-band (800-900 Mhz), dual mode (analog/digital) setup, and I was moving to a dual-band, tri-mode, GPS-enabled Motorola V710, I had to replace the single-band linear compensator and antenna switch with dual-band models in order to be able to use the upper (1800-1900 Mhz) band in addition to the lower band. Most newer phones are either Tri-mode or GSM. Mercedes Timeport and V-60 OE installations were dual-band originally, and should already have the proper compensator and switch installed. The linear compensator is a low-powered amplifier that makes up for loss of signal in the antenna lines and connections; I used part SYN 8486A ($50 or so on e-bay). The antenna switch controls whether the cell phone or Tele-Aid transmitter is connected to the bumper-mounted antenna; I used part Q 682 0652 ($40 used). If you do not use Tele-Aid, you can omit the antenna switch altogether. MIK advised that where an antenna switch is used, a dual-band switch improved reception markedly over the single-band switch. A dual-band linear compensator is a necessity. I was never able to determine whether I have a single or dual band antenna installed (the bumper must be removed to see the part numbers). With the dual band compensator and switch, the installation seems to work perfectly well without the added expense of removal of the bumper and replacement of the antenna. Mercedes uses a bumper-mount antenna in the W220 because cell phone emissions inside the car can damage electronics, especially for the airbags. Photo 3 (which should be 2): On the S500, the Mik-Box is most easily installed where the Y-Cable from the PSE (Portable Support Electronics) module (for the cell phone) connects to the car's pre-wiring harness. On the S500, this connector is tucked away between the wheel well and the CD changer/amplifier/PSE units. In the photo, I have removed the connector from its storage location and installed the Mik-Box per instructions. The wire ties are necessary because certain locking components of the connector are removed during installation. MY 2000-2003 Mercedes models with D2B fiber optics (except the M-Class) will be able to use this connection. The M-Class requires a short DB-25 cable to connect the Mik-Box directly to the PSE, because the connector shown is not present in the vehicle (see MIK's site). Photo 4 (which should be 3): I placed the Mik-Box just behind the linear compensator, affixing it to the compensator bracket with wire ties around the wiring bundles. This keeps the trunk liner from being pushed out where the electronics cover must fit when things go back in place; and it provides a snug fit for the box when the trunk liner is put back in place, so the box won't vibrate. With the ease of reaching the connector in the S500, installation of the box itself, including removal of the trunk liner, took about 20 minutes. A #10 and a #15 Torx (star) driver are necessary to remove both the cargo net tiedown that helps to hold the trunk liner in place, and the connector locking components. Photo 1 (which should be 4): The V710 and cradle installed in the armrest. The holes in the V710 cradle mount match up to the holes for the StarTac cradle, so no drilling or adaptation was required. The interior portion of the install took about 30 minutes. Photo 2 (which should be 5): The phone is functional, and I am free of the Mercedes-branded StarTac and able to use a modern (and non-Mercedes branded) phone purchased directly from my service provider. The Mik-Box provides all of the features of the StarTac PSE; I can access the phone book from the COMAND 2.5 LCD as well as from the instrument cluster display, and I get all information normally displayed on both. I can control phone functions with the steering wheel buttons and my voice control unit. With future Mik-Box firmware updates and purchase of a new cradle (if required), I can use even newer phones when they become available. However, the StarTac PSE lacks caller ID for incoming calls. This is a limitation of the PSE, not the Mik-Box; right now, the Mik-Box does not provide greater display capability than the PSE used with it. Therefore, after verifying all functions with the Mik-Box/StarTac installation (they all worked perfectly!), I replaced the StarTac PSE with a TimePort PSE ($100, used), which provides caller ID. MIK will at some point work on providing a visible message waiting indication for the TimePort PSE, which it is capable of providing, but which is not implemented in his firmware as of late November, 2004. With the TimePort PSE, I also get the special ring tones I have assigned to VIP callers, through the car's audio system. Mik-Box installation requires no re-coding of the COMAND system for either the StarTac or TimePort, if one was already installed. Upgrade of an existing V-60 installation should also require no new coding, though I cannot confirm from my own experience. Costs: Mik-Box, $199; V710 cradle, $59 (from MIK, who provides a necessary antenna connector adapter); Cable, $49 (again from MIK, connecting cradle to car's RJ-45 connector in center console); shipping, $15; Linear compensator (used), $55; antenna switch (used), $40; V710 phone (new from Verizon, with contract), $150. I also bought a computer-to-RJ45 cable from MIK for programming firmware updates, in the event of problems doing so through the phone; however, this is a backup, and is not required. Compare these prices with retrofitting with a UHI interface (made for cars outside the US, and not available for installation through Mercedes in the US). The kit (including a new PSE) is around $600-800; installation is anything but simple for the average DIY, and may require a technician (pinouts on connectors often do not match); and on top of it, you still need a phone. If you're retrofitting UHI to a MY 2000 car, you also must do the dual-band component upgrade. The total cost for a UHI retrofit in the U.S. can easily exceed $1000, and you'd still need to add the cost of the phone. In addition to MIK, I also thank SledDog and Manny Alexandre in particular, for their advice throughout, especially that which indicated that I did not have to replace my bumper antenna; and Paul H. D i c k for the wonderful information posted on his website. I also appreciate the advice provided by other contributors to the forums.

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[scorchie]

Originally Posted by Skylaw

Compare these prices with retrofitting with a UHI interface (made for cars outside the US, and not available for installation through Mercedes in the US). The kit (including a new PSE) is around $600-800; installation is anything but simple for the average DIY, and may require a technician (pinouts on connectors often do not match); and on top of it, you still need a phone. If you're retrofitting UHI to a MY 2000 car, you also must do the dual-band component upgrade. The total cost for a UHI retrofit in the U.S. can easily exceed $1000, and you'd still need to add the cost of the phone.

I've no idea where you get your UHI prices, but it certainly can be done for $900; some of the phones are free at Cingular and T-Mobile right now (or under $50); and Steve includes a dual band antenna for an additional $50.

-s-

[dtkw]

Does the Mikbox works with other manufacture's other than MB Command? say...er...Alpine?

[ToonArmy]

Originally Posted by Skylaw

Compare these prices with retrofitting with a UHI interface (made for cars outside the US, and not available for installation through Mercedes in the US).

Not to denigrate what Mik has done with the Mikbox, but to be fair, you're comparing the price for a car which already has the (~$2K) Mercedes PSE and components installed. For a car without the overpriced OEM phone, the UHI kit makes a lot of sense, and at least currently provides a wider selection of phone brands, including Nokia and Sony Ericsson.

Now a Mikbox for generic Bluetooth, that would, in my opinion, be a real killer.

[Skylaw]

Scorchie: First, I have enjoyed your posts since I began to read this forum 18 months ago. I appreciate the time and your contributions. They have helped me to understand much more about my car than the Mercedes literature and service departments have.

The UHI pricing figures are a range that came from several sites in this and other forums. Some have ordered the equipment on e-bay for less; others have not been so lucky. However, using your $900 estimate, plus the potential of needing a new linear compensator and antenna switch (totaled $95 for me on e-bay; much more from Mercedes dealers) runs it to $995; and of course, you can't get a V710 for $50 - not yet, anyway. Of course, lower costs for these items would apply to a Mik-Box installation as well.

You didn't say if the $900 included installation by a technician - some of the discussions on this forum convince me I'd not do that by myself, with the connector pin matchup problems. I think you contributed to at least one of those discussions (with Wolfman). If I wanted to wait for Steve to visit where I live, I could take advantage of the $50 dual band antenna (or just buy one from a Hirschmann distributor for $65). But then I'd spend $400 in labor costs (acording to the dealer I spoke to about it) to remove & reinstall the rear bumper to install the antenna.

As it is, I did the Mik-Box installation in less than an hour on a weekend of my choice.

ToonArmy: I have seen pictures of your UHI installation, and it is neat! You are correct that if one's car has no phone installation to begin with, the cost of a UHI installation is something to be considered. And, of course, it's already Bluetooth and it does currently allow the use of more phones. However, if you already have a phone installation, there is no need to throw it out; a Mik-Box installation will cost less. My discussion focused principally on that as a starting point. And I couldn't agree more that a Bluetooth Mik-Box would be a killer (with enough interest, he promises to develop one). I could even use my V710 with it!

What I am particularly happy about is that there are (finally) U.S. alternatives to the Mercedes OE installations that are better able to keep up with the rapidly changing technology in phones. Owning an older car no longer means having to keep an older phone. And I am happy there are people like both of you (and many others) who are willing to give of your time and knowledge for the benefit of the rest of us.

[Wolfman]

Skylaw,

Great write-up!
I have looked at the Mik-box and have considered it as well before going with UHI.
But I think pricing is actually not the issue as much as the individual need, carrier and existing car & setup. It is also difficult to compare costs when looking at new MB components vs. eBay purchases (if one wants to go through the trouble, UHI parts can be bought on eBay Germany as well).
In the end, with either "complete" installs I think it's a wash.

Installation can be made easier than what I did as well so even that is about the same.

Here are my pros/cons; perhaps they can help:
Already using a MB "digital" phone (StarTac, TimePort, V60) and planning to continue with a newer Motorola = Mikbox, especialy with Verizon as UHI will not work with that carrier. Older Cingular, AT&T MB phones will be history anyway. When switching to GSM phones of those carriers, Mikbox will be cheaper to convert, but UHI will be the better long-term solution.

Cars with no previous MB phone install or with an analog MB phone setup = UHI as the GSM standard is the prevailing standard in the world and increasingly so in the US. Another great advantage is that GSM phones have the removable chip that hold the phone number+phonebook (at least 250 numbers) that can be switched within seconds to another brand GSM phone. Something you can simply not do with any CDMA/TDMA phone. GSM phones can also be unlocked easily to work on any other GSM carrier.

People with any kind of MB phone wanting to switch to other phone brands, like Nokia, Siemens, Sony Ericsson = UHI, while the list of phones is something like 15 at this time, the number of supported phones will increase quickly as UHI is being installed into hundreds of thousands of cars right now. It is the new defacto Mercedes setup.

People using GSM, Cingular (+AT&T GSM), T-Mobile = UHI, more phone choices, simple phone switches (better plug-n-play, non-corded cradles), better compatibility, better software integration. This will be the more reliable product due to pure volume of installs as this is MB's worldwide default phone system (except the US of course )

Any cars with MOST, if Steve has the Teleaid issue worked out, then UHI would be my choice (or MHI if already installed).

Wolfman

[scorchie]

Thank you for explanation of your pricing breakdown! Agreed that it is good that there are multiple choices for older car owners, especially those who stick with Verizon (I can't use Verizon for a number of reasons, most notably handset compatibility requirements when traveling overseas).

-s-

[scorchie]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Any cars with MOST, if Steve has the Teleaid issue worked out, then UHI would be my choice (or MHI if already installed).

Wolfman

Current MOST + UHI + TeleAid situation:

2003/2004 W211 cars must deactivate TeleAid, and require COMAND software update or Euro COMAND

2004 W215/W220 cars... probably must deactivate TeleAid (forgot to look at any 2004 cars)

2005 cars ... seem to work fine with TeleAid and UHI, currently doing final testing

All D2B cars seem to work fine regardless of COMAND/Audio 30/TeleAid issues.

-s-

[mb230s]

I think the expected market of the Mikbox is for the StarTak/TimePort/V60 users who want to upgrade. For $200 they could be done. I cobbled together a system using eBay and did the complete MikBox install for less than 1/2 the cost of a UHI. I like it. I have used it w/ 3 different GSM phones from Cingular and ATT.

I'm glad I had the option! The ingenuity of Mik and the quality of the product is a neat story. One guy set out and conquered something MB should have had 5 years ago. Think how much MB has spent to finally have a good system. If MB did the UHI 5 years ago maybe they would have sold a decent % of phone kits. All my friends thought it was insane to spend $2000 for the use of one crappy obsolete phone.

I hope he does well. For those of us that don't want to spend a fortune or have older cars it is great. $500 saved is still $500, even if we do drive $75k cars.

Dave

[DMI+RY]

Great post Skylaw!
Shall I call it JIT (just in time).
I will do my V710 integration to Timeport PSE next weekend.

[Skylaw]

DMI+RY

You may want to do a search on the "other" forum b_e_n_z_w_o_r_l_d for "Motorola V710" - you'll find some of my posts with a URL to a publication (that hasn't been made available to the world yet) with more pics, especially of the interior installation steps. The text is largely the same as above.

I apologize for making you search - but the URL won't launch from this website, even with a cut & paste.

Good luck!!

[xtianpel]

For those interested on this subject, check out my other posting in the SL area:

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=103638