2003 owners who want crank shaft pulley

[christian655321]

http://www.aspracing.com/frame.htm 1-877-928-8678 I talked with Lee at ASP racing, he can make the pulley but he needs 2 things. 1. the actual pulley in his hands so he can measure everything. 2. how much clearance on the 2003 motor the pulley has so he knows how much bigger he can fabricate one. 13313 Redfish, #104 Stafford, TX 77477 (281) 261-5811 (281) 261-5715 Fax E-mail: asp@aspracing.com I have a couple idea's on how us 2003 owners can accomplish this 1: someone buy a pulley and send it to them, he can measure it and send it back to you, you would be able to return the part to the dealer. 2: someone who is more of a mechanic then me can take off thier pulley and send it in. 3: we need someone that knows what they are doing to measure clearance around the pulley, so we know how big we can go. there will be no part for the 2003 model owners unless someone does this. that is how the 2002 part was made. anyone live near stafford TX? the part number according to a dealer in MD, R&H mercedes, for the crankshaft pulley is 271-030-00-03 i am trying to verify this part number with 2 other dealerships before i say that is 100% so can anyone help out?

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[christian655321]

part number is confirmed, it is 252.00 the MB chicago warehouse has them in stock. there is a 5% restocking fee on all returned parts. so it would cost roughly 12.60 to return the part, plus shipping to ASP. i am willing to chip in on the cost if someone will order the pulley and send it.

[Buellwinkle]

Good luck, I tried this and because it's special order they won't take it back after 2 weeks and he's going to need it for at least a month, more than likely 2 months. You are lucky, the '02 pulley was $302. Try Hoehn Motors in Carlsbad, CA, they advertise in Autoweek as wholesale MB parts to the public, should get you 20-30% off and have it shipped direct to ASP to save time and postage. Also, someone needs to make a cardboard cutout and see just how large the pulley can be. Run string from crank pulley carboard cutout to adjoining pulleys along the belt line to see if touches anything (that's what happened on the '02 pulley, the pulley fit but the belt touched another pulley). It's a fun project and you'll be at least a year ahead of any tuner.

[christian655321]

Originally posted by Buellwinkle


on csportscoupe.com

you first need to know how fast your sc is currently turning. the max speed on these blowers is 10-11K and from 7-9 psi. this info is straight from eaton.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What blower is in the '03? I know the '02s run Eaton M45 and their recommended max is 14k at 10 PSI. You can measure the speed by taking the belt off and measuring the crank pulley diameter and the supercharger pulley with calipers and then multiply your redline by the crank pulley diameter divided by the s/c pulley diameter. For example, if redline is 6K rpm and your crank pulley is 7" and your supercharger pulley is 3.5 then you are spinning the s/c at 12K rpm.

jeasus christ this is becomming complicated...

so i need to find out the SC RPM speed
measure the space with cardboard cutout
find out the new belt size
send in the pulley.

i will have to do some investigating to find out the blower model to make sure it is the same one.

[vadim]

Is the crankshaft pulley in the 2003 1.8L engine single plane (one belt)? If yes, you better leave this idea alone, as you also have to manufacture bigger pulleys for the water pump, A/C and power steering pump, at the very least, along with the crankshaft one. Consider also, that the A/C pulley has a magnetic clutch on it.

[Lynn]

The crank pulley on the 1.8 is a single plane pulley.

[Buellwinkle]

Hey, we tried to warn these people not to buy '03s if they want mods but I guess they learn the hard way. It's a lot of thankless work designing a pulley but in the end it was worth it for me. You have to decide if the work is worth it for you. If you overdrive some appliances that's not terrible, specially if you only end up making the crank 10% larger, just depends. Before you do anything make the template and see just how much bigger you can make the pulley. You may find it's not possible, you may find there's loads of room. Baby steps!

[The Limey]

Are you sure about that part number. My contact says that A 271 030 00 03 comes up as a 'Vibration Absorber' - which the crankshaft pulley definitely aint.

I'd check that one out. And yes, I asked about the correct part number and I'm afraid he couldn't find it.

[peet]

Yo Buel..

I looked for Hahn Motors in Carlsbad, but there's no such monster. (on the web at least). The closest I've come is one in Yakima, WA.

Can you doublecheck that ad?

Peet

[Buellwinkle]

Peet, sorry, my misspelling. It's Hoehn Motors. Here's their website http://www.hoehnmotors.com/

Limey, that's correct, they don't call it a pulley, that would be too easy.

[peet]

B:

Thanks dude!

Let's see how wholesale they are!?

P

[christian655321]

Originally posted by The Limey
Are you sure about that part number. My contact says that A 271 030 00 03 comes up as a 'Vibration Absorber' - which the crankshaft pulley definitely aint.

I'd check that one out. And yes, I asked about the correct part number and I'm afraid he couldn't find it.

figures.... that is why i called two different places, guess they dont know what the hell they are talking about, this thread is also on csportscoupe i am going to paste some info we got there also...... http://www.csportcoupe.com/forums/sh...=&threadid=649


FROM CSPORTSCOUPE

Lynn
Moderator

Registered: May 2002
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 269
The 2003 does not use an Eaton supercharger. It apparently is made by MB.

Excerpt from mbsy.com article on the M 271:

The Mercedes developers have reengineered the compressor – which ensures exemplary bottom-end torque characteristics in all new Mercedes four-cylinder engines – by reducing the clearance between the rotors and the supercharger housing and by using a new coating for the rotors. The result is an even higher rate of air flow and even better efficiency than in the mechanical supercharger used in previous Mercedes four-cylinder engines. Special wide-band silencers are installed on the intake side and pressure side.


__________________
2002 C230k, 6 speed, japis blau, charcoal leather, C4, C5, C7

[avlis]

The 2003 does not use an Eaton supercharger. It apparently is made by MB.

I doubt that it's made by MB. Seems every componant I've removed from my car DIDN'T have an MB mark on it. Surely, MB isn't in the business of making blowers (or any car parts for that matter). They do the product design and final assembly.

[christian655321]

mystery blower then heh? maybe honda made it?

[avlis]

I'm sure you'll find some company's trademark on the blower case. I'm surprised it's not Eaton.

[Lynn]

Maybe it is made by the same company that makes the supercharger for the C32. Lysholm

[DCXdynodog]

Originally posted by Lynn
Maybe it is made by the same company that makes the supercharger for the C32. Lysholm

Funny, the 03 loaner I am driving right now has an Eaton tag on it's blower.

[DCXdynodog]

Originally posted by Buellwinkle
Peet, sorry, my misspelling. It's Hoehn Motors. Here's their website http://www.hoehnmotors.com/

Limey, that's correct, they don't call it a pulley, that would be too easy.

Not trying to step on toes here but there are some things to be aware of here which I haven't seen posted yet.

The part you guys a playing with is a "Vibration Damper" with a Pulley built into it as well. The pictures I saw (nice job by the way Buellwinkle!) of the new/old units side by side confirm this. If you look at the original you will notice a thin rubber ring connecting an outer ring (steel/iron) to the main center of the hub.

The job of the Vibration Damper is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT (sorry for shouting). It absorbs "torsional vibrations". (this is the job of the rubber ring and outer ring) Torsional vibrations are twisting of the crankshaft under load (every time a piston pushes down on it's power stroke the crank twists just a wee bit) and are measured in "degrees of amplitude".

After time with excessive torsional vibrations the crankshaft will crack and fail. But other things may happen first, such as excessive main bearing loading which causes the bearing material to fatigue, flake off, travel through the rod bearings causing one of them to fail.

I am not joking or trying to rain on anybody's parade, but you guys are definitely playing with fire here. The engine is probably pretty robust (i.e. heavier/stronger/slightly overengineered components) and will tolerate the abuse better than a lesser built unit, but the life of the crankshaft and main bearings will be shortened by replacing the factory "vibration damper" with a "solid hub".

This would occur with or without increasing the boost/power level of the engine, but it will be worse with increased boost/power. The fact that the new unit is lighter (aluminum vs iron) also works in the wrong direction.

Most production vibration dampers and crank pulleys are made as one unit like the pics I saw, which is most likey due to cost savings and less fasteners ot fail. Of course this sucks for us
Would be sweet if it was a bolt on

One suggestion would be to take an oil sample and find a Caterpiller Tractor shop (or other heavy equipment shop) in your area and have an it tested. Use this for a baseline and see if the metallic elements increase too much over time. Some bearings are aluminum, some are lead/tin/copper based (I don't know what is in MB engines) but the reality is to find a way to leave the
vibration damper part of the unit on the engine (which is doable, just more complicated)

Ok, off the soapbox and ready for the flames

doggone it!

[Lynn]

Originally posted by DCXdynodog
Funny, the 03 loaner I am driving right now has an Eaton tag on it's blower.

It doesn't look like the M45 used on the 2002's. I guess Eaton is producing a new supercharger which is not on their web site, yet.

[DtS]

Originally posted by Lynn
Maybe it is made by the same company that makes the supercharger for the C32. Lysholm

Didn't know there was a swedish compressor in the C32. I learn something new every day.

[peet]

DCX may have some valid points. But 1) the dampener thread's been beaten to death - no resolution yet. But more importantly 2) why can't we just go with a ring model like Kleeman?

Kleeman? I assume you guys are looking at this?

P

[Outland]

Originally posted by christian655321
mystery blower then heh? maybe honda made it?

Um, yeah...Honda *Leafblower* maybe.

Some bearings are aluminum, some are lead/tin/copper based (I don't know what is in MB engines) but the reality is to find a way to leave the

Not trying to flame you or anything, but C'mon, bearings made of aluminum? No way. Certainly not main bearings, the aluminum would deform under the weight of the crankshaft and flywheel alone. Ive seen bearings with aluminum bearing *cages*, heck even plastic ones, but Ive never seen an actual aluminum roller, ball, or pin. Same goes for lead...have you ever used lead? Its limper than a wet noodle. The bearings are steel.

[whitecar2003]

Easy Outland... be careful about speaking on topics that you aren't familiar with...

I'm only part of a fringe of the automotive industry (diesel engines), but I am a mechanical engineer and have worked in performance development in the past.

Bearings out of steel? I think you're missing the whole point of main bearings in the first place. With a hardened steel crankshaft, you need something that will 'absorb' fine metalic particles that make it past the oil filter. These impurities will embed themselves in soft bearing materials so as to not act as an abrasive and wipe out the expensive parts (i.e. crankshaft, cam, etc.) As for strength of these soft materials, they are backed in steel with layers of soft alloy (al, sn, cu, etc.) on top making contact with crank. Actually, they shouldn't make contact at all, as the crank rides on a microscopic oil film... but that's another discussion all together.


If someone has more detailed knowledge designing gasoline engines (toy engines...ha, ha, ha)... I'd be curious to hear about similarities/differences. However, it's always been my belief that the priciples are the same with basic engine design, its just that with diesels designed to last 1,000,000+ miles... you just use 'beefier' and more expensive (exotic metals, etc) components.

Back to the orginal thread... with the '03's has anyone considered changing the pulley on the supercharger instead of the crank pulley/damper? (Then you keep you vibration damper and don't overspeed the other accessories to boot) I think I remember reading in the past that the S/C pulley was pressed on, but where there's a will there's a way?

[Mike T.]

Outland you are quite incorrect. Many (most?) crankshaft bearings are indeed - partly - made of aluminium. The bearing material has to be relatively soft.

Modern engine bearings are commonly made of an aluminium-tin alloy.

In the old days, there were some exotic metal alloys - early Peugeot 404 Injection engines had lead-indium bearings (no sh*it) and they were superb, but WAY more expensive than the aluminium-tin units that replaced them in later production.

[Outland]

If I'm wrong, then well, I'm wrong. Like I said, wasn't trying to flame anyone, or spout off like a know it all, apologize if it came off that way....it just sounded rather absurd...Ive held many different types of bearings in my hands, they are heavy, and the individual rollers themselves are rather dense as well...certainly doesn't feel or look like aluminum.