Just got my '02 Coupe, suggestions on sound?

[x15jq]

Just took delivery on an 02 C230. Has C2 and C7. I lost out on the C5 package so I would get the bose sound system and I am dissapointed I did. The stock system has less bass and distorts more than my sister's jetta. Everything sounds flat with too much midrange. Any suggestions So i can get A LOT more bass without changing out the headunit. Is it really hard to add a sub to these cars? Its leased right now, but need to upgrade this!! BTW, my 99 Clk Cabrio has such a better sound system. The coupe has 6 speakers, 3 in each door, but the clk has a sub in the rear seat. I guess thats the difference. If I could get it to sound like that I would be pleased! Thanks Everyone!!

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[peet]

Be glad. Bose sucks.

The money you'd spend would be pitched. Bose is fed via Fiber from the head unit so you can't update components *****-nilly.

What you now have is a really nice, analog output radio.

Get the speaker sizes (search the board). Buy some nice MB Quart, A/D/S or Boston speakers and a decent amp. It'll cost you around $2k but you'll end up with something you'll be proud of instead of -- well what the rest of us got

If you want to keep stock head AND get CD... get the Audio 10... search for that as well.

Enjoy.

[Buellwinkle]

The MB Audio 10 CD is a far better head unit made by Becker in Germany instead of your current Alpine Jap unit. In comparison the bass will outstound you. Like Peet said, search the forum because it's a complex issue, it's not as easily as visiting your local dealer. Bose is a waste of money, doesn't really sound better.

[x15jq]

Those ambience and Driver settings menu. MY CAR DONT HAVE IT?

If i have the standard system, should my display say EXT when I hit AUD?

The manual refers to it, but I dont have it!


Right now it soundslike it has WAY to much midrange and like no bass or treble even with teh sound all the way up. I dont want killer sound but its overly clear.

[Matt230K]

The EXT is only available with the Bose, so you don't have it.

[x15jq]

Ahh now it makes sense!!

Thanks Matt.

Any other suggestions, I just need to drown out this midrange a little and the bass and treb controls dont cut it.

I would also like a more natural bass instead of it only occuring at really high volume.

Is it really hard to wire a sub into these cars? My clk has one in it from the factory, but im sure its difficult.

Thanks for the help so far everyone!

[ste]

Hello everyone, I just got my 02 C240.
Does Audio 10 CD work in C240? and same installation as well?

[vadim]

Originally posted by ste
Hello everyone, I just got my 02 C240.
Does Audio 10 CD work in C240? and same installation as well?

Yes and Yes.

[avlis]

Those EXT settings are of NO use. I left them set to OFF.

I've had the Audio 10 for a day. The bass is still barely noticable at low volume and while driving with the roof open. I think it sounds better at high volume then the A30 did though.

[x15jq]

IS there an EASY way to add bass to my stock standard system however?

Im fine with the mid and highs' they dont sound bad to me.

The bass does distort however at loud voulume. A dedicated sub would be great.

Could it be powered by the stock headunit??

Help me!!

[BlackC230Coupe]

Originally posted by x15jq
IS there an EASY way to add bass to my stock standard system however?

Im fine with the mid and highs' they dont sound bad to me.

The bass does distort however at loud voulume. A dedicated sub would be great.

Could it be powered by the stock headunit??

Help me!!

My CLK430 has the stock Bose system with 2 stock subwoofers, and my C230 has the standard MB system and i did not think it sounded bad at all. But i wanted bass. So i got a Alpine Type R 12 12 inch Sub with a good kennwood amp. and it sounds great more than or should i say to much bass. But i like it alot. I did not change the stock speakers at all i just added the sub. and now i like the sound of it better then my CLK430s 8 speaker bose system.

and of course the stock headunit can power an aftermarket sub great.

Here's a pic of my setup.

[x15jq]

Thats exactly what I would like to do!

Where did u tap the line to get it to the amP?

Is it really hard to run a line back from the HU to hook up a sub and amp in the trunk?

I think the sound is great but the bass just muds out the rest if its loud.

All i want is a dedicated sub!

Thanks

[hokusbenz]

the problem i see with a lot of opinions about the stereo systems around the forum is you guys seem to expect concert- level performance from the stock system! it is not going to be crisp and powerful with a lot of bass turned up because it is just a stock car system with not enough power for that! you would have to tear out the entire system and replace everything and add amps powering ALL the new speakers to make it sound good at loud levels. and this business with just adding a sub- what baloney. to get an EVEN sound you must power ALL the speakers proportionately- the bass is not the only important thing if you want good sound. by the way, i have the bose system and i have always thought it sounded great- well balanced with plenty of bass at low and medium volume levels. if i wanted extremely loud balanced sound i would change the whole system! I do professional recording engineering for a living, so dont try to lecture me on what good sound is. all you kids seem to want is bass nowadays and cant appreciate a good balanced system. dont get me wrong, im still a young guy and i love bass, but i like my systems BALANCED, im not trying just to shake the car and "impress" people i am driving by (showing off). thank you

[peet]

I BOW to that statement. Hear Hear (no pun intended).

On a related topic, give Reus systems a try. They have a great Coupe package.. additional tweeters in front, additional sub in rear (goes in the space above the spare - cool design).

Then new amp for the new elements and adjusting of all the current factory crap so that it balances with the new stuff. Good prices for what you get.

Give them a try!

P

[Jim Banville]

Hokusbenz, a subwoofer actually can bring a stock audio system's overall response into "balance". Asking the small speakers in a typical stock system to produce accurate, good sounding bass is asking for disappointment. In addition to that, adding a sub allows the user to reduce the strain on the stock speakers that are no longer asked to produce the bass, which should further improve overall sound quality. Both of these typically allow the sub'd system to play louder than before. Whether you choose to use this increased volume to "impress" people, or allow yourself to hear the quietest passages from a orchestral score is completely up to you

[hokusbenz]

nuh uh jim. the small amounts of power that stock systems produce is far lower than the 300- to 1000 watts that is typically fed to a subwoofer these days. although this theory might work a little bit, it is definitely no replacement.

[Jim Banville]

Hokusbenz, being a professional recording engineer, you should know that you must double wattage to get a 3db (small) increase in volume. So if I had a 50 watt amp in my system, and I switched to a 100 watt amp, I would ONLY get a slightly louder system. A large driver (such as a 10" or 12" woofer) requires more wattage to move vs. a 4" or 6" driver, so it stands to reason that the biggest drivers in the system get the largest amps. And a larger than "necessary" amp allows for more headroom (less distortion at the same given volume level). In other words, while a 100 watt amp and a 500 wat amp can be adjusted to give the same loudness through a given woofer, the bigger amp, all other things being equal, should have better "damping" (control) of the woofer and have lower distortion levels. You can hook-up a 12" woofer with 1000 watts of power to a 15 watt per channel system and still have a "balanced" system. You simply turn down the gain on the sub's amp until the sound is "balanced". Having a 1000 watt amp doesn't mean you MUST USE all 1000 watts! I'm with you on the point about the bass-heads with systems that BOOM down the road, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater! If you want to reproduce the lowest octaves of the audible frequency range while reducing the strain on your mid-woof's (which WILL make them sound better over their range) , you GOT TO HAVE a subwoofer

[amdeutsch]

Originally posted by Jim Banville
Hokusbenz, a subwoofer actually can bring a stock audio system's overall response into "balance". Asking the small speakers in a typical stock system to produce accurate, good sounding bass is asking for disappointment. In addition to that, adding a sub allows the user to reduce the strain on the stock speakers that are no longer asked to produce the bass, which should further improve overall sound quality. Both of these typically allow the sub'd system to play louder than before. Whether you choose to use this increased volume to "impress" people, or allow yourself to hear the quietest passages from a orchestral score is completely up to you

Jim in theory that might sound like it would work, but it reality some additional mods would be necessary. Since this is a stock HU you would need a good passive high pass x-over on the stock speakers to remove the bass. I would suggest around 150 Hz. With that in mind you have to realise that those components might be fairly bulky depending of the x-over design 6 dB vs 12 dB vs ???. This wiil relief the strain on the stocks. Turning down the bass alone won't help that much because these cheap Alpine HU tone controls have a wide ranging effect. Now you can tap into the the signal between the x-over and the HU to feed the full signal to your subamp. There I would suggest you set the low pass x-over at around 80 - 100 HZ. This staggering of the x-overs tries to take into effect the transfer function of the interior. Now you can set your gain control on the subamp to dial in as much bass as you would like. Some of the newer amps even have a remote control for that so you can change whenever you want. I've seen some of those control mounted in place of the cigarette lighter. I think it all depends what a person wants and how many $$$$ they want to spend. Well, so much for my $0.02.

[Jim Banville]

Amdeutsch, the way some people turn up the BASS control on their stereo equipment, sometimes adding a self-powered subwoofer would allow that same person to turn his BASS control back to "0", which would not work nearly as good as a high-pass xover, but would give the headunit (which powers most stock speaker systems) and the stock speakers a MUCH easier life

[amdeutsch]

Originally posted by Jim Banville
Amdeutsch, the way some people turn up the BASS control on their stereo equipment, sometimes adding a self-powered subwoofer would allow that same person to turn his BASS control back to "0", which would not work nearly as good as a high-pass xover, but would give the headunit (which powers most stock speaker systems) and the stock speakers a MUCH easier life

Jim,

I know what you mean. Those are the same people that turn up all controls on an equalizer because they think that it sounds better but really don't fully understand how things work.

[hokusbenz]

"You can hook-up a 12" woofer with 1000 watts of power to a 15 watt per channel system and still have a "balanced" system." LOL

give me break dude. and dont lecture me on the 3 db rule either :p i say if your not gonna go all out on a system then dont waste time ruining it. i know all about having headroom on amps so that the sound is cleaner, but this is just too far off to be balanced.

[Jim Banville]

this is just too far off to be balanced.

I gave the example of a 1000 watt powered 12" sub as an extreme example, not what I would consider someone would NORMALLY do. But it is still valid none the less. That is what gain (volume) controls on amps are for. And no one said that simply adding a sub will make the stock system sound like an audiophile quality rig. I argue that adding a sub to a stock system CAN make it sound "better" by some degree. Whether it is "worth it" in the end is up to the system's owner. I agree that speakers in "good" systems should be powered proportionaly, and in that context bigger drivers require more power than smaller speakers. A disproportionate system would have more power going to the smaller drivers vs. the sub.

Hokusbenz, twice you have accused me of "lecturing" you in this thread. I am simply expressing my educated opinion, as you are, and bringing up facts that others reading this thread may be unaware of. Isn't that what these boards are for? Do you claim that your opinion is THE LAST WORD on subjects of audio reproduction in the car? (rhetorical question)

[TimmyC230boy]

I'm not a audio expert by any means. I think the coupe has a great sound system for a stock car. In my Camaro I had a Monsoon system, not great not too bad either. I upgraded the kick panel and door speakers and it sounded much better. I went to circuit city and they put in a demo bazooka tube that was 150RMS i Think becuase the Camaro was a vert and had a totally seperated trunk even turned up you didnt hear the bass, you could feel it vibrating the car but no real sound. Now on the coupe I think a bazooka tube might sound nice. But I have the windows and top open too much to be concerned.

[peet]

FWIW.. opening windows and top INCREASES bass response. Problem is that the subs give off standing waves. These cancel out the waves coming from the sub and also are too long (that is waveform size) is too long... a typical bass wave is around 3m in length - the car interior is usually less than that.

P

[Jim Banville]

Peet, I must respectfully completely disagree with your last post. Bass is stronger in closed areas, cars included. Surfaces such as walls, etc. reinforce bass sound waves. This is why most manufacturers of home theater subwoofers recommend corner placement of subs and recommend against placing them near large openings.
There is also this myth that you must have an area at least as long as the calculated length of a sound wave for the sound to exist. Not true. If that were true imagine how awful headphones would sound with their tiny transducers. Regarding standing waves, you'd probably have bigger problems with them in large areas where the full length of the sound wave is allowed to propogate. I'd receommed F. Alton Everset's "Handbook to Acoustics" for anyone interested in delving further into the science of sound He's the expert (not me)!