C230 Sport Coup's All things AT Transmission related
06-24-2009, 08:31 PM
#51
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Just an update. Recently a member had an issue with leakage at the tranny connector, the one going to the TCU after putting new fluid in the tranny, the
newer fluid spec'd for both the 5 speed and the 7 speed.
Personally I tend to think if it was truely universal they could stop making the 5 speed only stuff, hence I used that on mine.
I discussed this with my local indy guy, and he's seen it quite a bit.
So when ordering the orings from the local dealer, he found they've seen it a lot too.
Anyway, it seems it a pretty common thing to go wrong, and so I would add replacing the o-rings at the electrical connector as described at install university .com irregardless which fluid you use.
It's inexpensive, easy, and a good 'while you're in there item' that will avoid having to deal with
a leaking tranny and damaged TCU.
Personally if you have a 5 speed, I would use the fluid designed for that tranny.
One size fits all is never a good fit.
I need to get under my car to inspect the connection....next time I drop the fluid, that will be on my list of parts. Total cost of the orings is about 6 bucks. Or you can get the whole plastic piece with the orings for like 7.
newer fluid spec'd for both the 5 speed and the 7 speed.
Personally I tend to think if it was truely universal they could stop making the 5 speed only stuff, hence I used that on mine.
I discussed this with my local indy guy, and he's seen it quite a bit.
So when ordering the orings from the local dealer, he found they've seen it a lot too.
Anyway, it seems it a pretty common thing to go wrong, and so I would add replacing the o-rings at the electrical connector as described at install university .com irregardless which fluid you use.
It's inexpensive, easy, and a good 'while you're in there item' that will avoid having to deal with
a leaking tranny and damaged TCU.
Personally if you have a 5 speed, I would use the fluid designed for that tranny.
One size fits all is never a good fit.
I need to get under my car to inspect the connection....next time I drop the fluid, that will be on my list of parts. Total cost of the orings is about 6 bucks. Or you can get the whole plastic piece with the orings for like 7.
Last edited by C230 Sport Coup; 06-24-2009 at 08:36 PM.
06-25-2009, 01:17 AM
#52
Super Moderator
I respectfully disagree.
While your reasoning may indeed be sound, it’s not necessarily the fault of the ‘new and improved’ fluid that is causing the TCU/EGS connector to leak. Know the member to whom you’re referring. Wouldn’t wish his recent leak (or busted toenail) on anyone.
When synthetic lubricants were first made available for widespread consumer use, many complained of their propensity to cause leaks where there had previously been none. They’re merely caused by a defective seal or gasket, IMHO. Never mind that synthetic crude oil derivatives were first used effectively by the other side during WW II. The jet engine as we know it today simply would not exist if it weren’t for the tremendous advances brought fourth by tribologists and their refinery engineering science. Don’t have a jet. Where was I going with this? :crazy:
Not discounting that MB’s most recent ATF specification may not have the ideal clutch plate friction ingredients for crisp performance and ultimate longevity from our 722.6 five speed transmissions. I’ve yet to try it in mine. Have two more complete flushes of the old stuff on hand ‘til it’s time to buy more. However, it seems rather silly that its apparent lack of ‘seal swell’ is sufficient cause to preclude its use during a fluid renewal for those who don’t have a stash. Understand Mercedes-Benz’s desire to consolidate and streamline their consumables inventory. Nonetheless, that damn TCU seal has been revised and/or superseded about a half-dozen times since its initial iteration. They’re an easy half hour swap.
It’s the premature self-insured ~$5000 DIY transmission replacement that sometimes gives me sleepless nights.
photo credit withheld to protect another victim
While your reasoning may indeed be sound, it’s not necessarily the fault of the ‘new and improved’ fluid that is causing the TCU/EGS connector to leak. Know the member to whom you’re referring. Wouldn’t wish his recent leak (or busted toenail) on anyone.
When synthetic lubricants were first made available for widespread consumer use, many complained of their propensity to cause leaks where there had previously been none. They’re merely caused by a defective seal or gasket, IMHO. Never mind that synthetic crude oil derivatives were first used effectively by the other side during WW II. The jet engine as we know it today simply would not exist if it weren’t for the tremendous advances brought fourth by tribologists and their refinery engineering science. Don’t have a jet. Where was I going with this? :crazy:
Not discounting that MB’s most recent ATF specification may not have the ideal clutch plate friction ingredients for crisp performance and ultimate longevity from our 722.6 five speed transmissions. I’ve yet to try it in mine. Have two more complete flushes of the old stuff on hand ‘til it’s time to buy more. However, it seems rather silly that its apparent lack of ‘seal swell’ is sufficient cause to preclude its use during a fluid renewal for those who don’t have a stash. Understand Mercedes-Benz’s desire to consolidate and streamline their consumables inventory. Nonetheless, that damn TCU seal has been revised and/or superseded about a half-dozen times since its initial iteration. They’re an easy half hour swap.
It’s the premature self-insured ~$5000 DIY transmission replacement that sometimes gives me sleepless nights.
photo credit withheld to protect another victim
06-25-2009, 02:58 AM
#53
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I respectfully disagree.
While your reasoning may indeed be sound, it’s not necessarily the fault of the ‘new and improved’ fluid that is causing the TCU/EGS connector to leak. Know the member to whom you’re referring. Wouldn’t wish his recent leak (or busted toenail) on anyone.
When synthetic lubricants were first made available for widespread consumer use, many complained of their propensity to cause leaks where there had previously been none. They’re merely caused by a defective seal or gasket, IMHO. Never mind that synthetic crude oil derivatives were first used effectively by the other side during WW II. The jet engine as we know it today simply would not exist if it weren’t for the tremendous advances brought fourth by tribologists and their refinery engineering science. Don’t have a jet. Where was I going with this?
Not discounting that MB’s most recent ATF specification may not have the ideal clutch plate friction ingredients for crisp performance and ultimate longevity from our 722.6 five speed transmissions. I’ve yet to try it in mine. Have two more complete flushes of the old stuff on hand ‘til it’s time to buy more. However, it seems rather silly that its apparent lack of ‘seal swell’ is sufficient cause to preclude its use during a fluid renewal for those who don’t have a stash. Understand Mercedes-Benz’s desire to consolidate and streamline their consumables inventory. Nonetheless, that damn TCU seal has been revised and/or superseded about a half-dozen times since its initial iteration. They’re an easy half hour swap.
It’s the premature self-insured ~$5000 DIY transmission replacement that sometimes gives me sleepless nights.
photo credit withheld to protect another victim
While your reasoning may indeed be sound, it’s not necessarily the fault of the ‘new and improved’ fluid that is causing the TCU/EGS connector to leak. Know the member to whom you’re referring. Wouldn’t wish his recent leak (or busted toenail) on anyone.
When synthetic lubricants were first made available for widespread consumer use, many complained of their propensity to cause leaks where there had previously been none. They’re merely caused by a defective seal or gasket, IMHO. Never mind that synthetic crude oil derivatives were first used effectively by the other side during WW II. The jet engine as we know it today simply would not exist if it weren’t for the tremendous advances brought fourth by tribologists and their refinery engineering science. Don’t have a jet. Where was I going with this?
Not discounting that MB’s most recent ATF specification may not have the ideal clutch plate friction ingredients for crisp performance and ultimate longevity from our 722.6 five speed transmissions. I’ve yet to try it in mine. Have two more complete flushes of the old stuff on hand ‘til it’s time to buy more. However, it seems rather silly that its apparent lack of ‘seal swell’ is sufficient cause to preclude its use during a fluid renewal for those who don’t have a stash. Understand Mercedes-Benz’s desire to consolidate and streamline their consumables inventory. Nonetheless, that damn TCU seal has been revised and/or superseded about a half-dozen times since its initial iteration. They’re an easy half hour swap.
It’s the premature self-insured ~$5000 DIY transmission replacement that sometimes gives me sleepless nights.
photo credit withheld to protect another victim
My story goes like this....
I bought then new spec fluid. I ony bought 4 quarts. My a.m. shifts were rough and I sought releif. I did a pan drop, gasket change, and pan clean. Visual inspection was solid. Before and after.
My experiences with the trans has told me that odd shifts need immediate attention, so when my fresh serviced trans gave me ish, I got her up on jacks. I thought I may have a leak at the pan.
I saw a leak at the TCU connector. It surely wasn't there before my service. I'd like to think I would have noticed. I'll leave open that I may have bumped it. but the weeping fluid after the small percentage of fluid change in about a week lead me to think that changing the TCU seals was now necessary with adding the new spec fluid.
The old seals were loosey goosey. Don't know, just my two cents.
When I put the new seal on, they felt far different. Of course the materials seemed different. The old seals were a white rubber and new was a black rubber.
I say, if you are down there, do it all.
06-25-2009, 07:31 AM
#54
Super Moderator
The properties of the new fluid should give all round longterm performance benefits over the old fluid - even in the 722.6. It maintains it's viscometrics a lot better than the old fluid with use. It is not impossible that the new fluid caused an already marginal O Ring to leak but elastomer compatibility is part of the testing & spec. Both fluid formulations contain similar proportions of seal swell additive. Yes, the new fluid uses different base fluid.
I believe that that darn seal operates in a hostile environment with radiant heat from the exhaust helping it's demise. The number of elastomer changes tell us that Benz don't consider the problem solved. I think it is good advice to change the O Rings when servicing the transmission. I'm 7000Kms off my 60,000Km flush - I will be going to the new fluid - will change the O Rings & report. My transmission has been smooth & trouble free to date with no leaks apart from the drain plug washer weeping & being replaced. I will be watching shift shock very carefully after the change.
I believe that that darn seal operates in a hostile environment with radiant heat from the exhaust helping it's demise. The number of elastomer changes tell us that Benz don't consider the problem solved. I think it is good advice to change the O Rings when servicing the transmission. I'm 7000Kms off my 60,000Km flush - I will be going to the new fluid - will change the O Rings & report. My transmission has been smooth & trouble free to date with no leaks apart from the drain plug washer weeping & being replaced. I will be watching shift shock very carefully after the change.
06-26-2009, 03:11 PM
#55
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Thread Starter
So to summarize.
It's a good idea to replace the seals when you flush.
Period.
On that I think we agree.
The whole connector piece, plastic parts included is only about 7-8 bucks.
For the sake of postage and having to stand in line at the post office, I only included the seals for Ed.
But they are the latest ones.
In the process of talking with the mechanic, I picked up some computer work, which was good and made it well worth my time to help out Ed. Then myself and the mechanic/shop owner proceeded to drink 1/2 a bottle of good tequila.
Nice pic Ed. How much fluid came out? I need to climb under there and check the status of that connector.
It's a good idea to replace the seals when you flush.
Period.
On that I think we agree.
The whole connector piece, plastic parts included is only about 7-8 bucks.
For the sake of postage and having to stand in line at the post office, I only included the seals for Ed.
But they are the latest ones.
In the process of talking with the mechanic, I picked up some computer work, which was good and made it well worth my time to help out Ed. Then myself and the mechanic/shop owner proceeded to drink 1/2 a bottle of good tequila.
Nice pic Ed. How much fluid came out? I need to climb under there and check the status of that connector.
Last edited by C230 Sport Coup; 06-26-2009 at 03:16 PM.
06-26-2009, 03:17 PM
#56
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06-26-2009, 04:55 PM
#57
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I respectfully disagree.
While your reasoning may indeed be sound, it’s not necessarily the fault of the ‘new and improved’ fluid that is causing the TCU/EGS connector to leak. Know the member to whom you’re referring. Wouldn’t wish his recent leak (or busted toenail) on anyone.
When synthetic lubricants were first made available for widespread consumer use, many complained of their propensity to cause leaks where there had previously been none. They’re merely caused by a defective seal or gasket, IMHO. Never mind that synthetic crude oil derivatives were first used effectively by the other side during WW II. The jet engine as we know it today simply would not exist if it weren’t for the tremendous advances brought fourth by tribologists and their refinery engineering science. Don’t have a jet. Where was I going with this?
Not discounting that MB’s most recent ATF specification may not have the ideal clutch plate friction ingredients for crisp performance and ultimate longevity from our 722.6 five speed transmissions. I’ve yet to try it in mine. Have two more complete flushes of the old stuff on hand ‘til it’s time to buy more. However, it seems rather silly that its apparent lack of ‘seal swell’ is sufficient cause to preclude its use during a fluid renewal for those who don’t have a stash. Understand Mercedes-Benz’s desire to consolidate and streamline their consumables inventory. Nonetheless, that damn TCU seal has been revised and/or superseded about a half-dozen times since its initial iteration. They’re an easy half hour swap.
It’s the premature self-insured ~$5000 DIY transmission replacement that sometimes gives me sleepless nights.
photo credit withheld to protect another victim
While your reasoning may indeed be sound, it’s not necessarily the fault of the ‘new and improved’ fluid that is causing the TCU/EGS connector to leak. Know the member to whom you’re referring. Wouldn’t wish his recent leak (or busted toenail) on anyone.
When synthetic lubricants were first made available for widespread consumer use, many complained of their propensity to cause leaks where there had previously been none. They’re merely caused by a defective seal or gasket, IMHO. Never mind that synthetic crude oil derivatives were first used effectively by the other side during WW II. The jet engine as we know it today simply would not exist if it weren’t for the tremendous advances brought fourth by tribologists and their refinery engineering science. Don’t have a jet. Where was I going with this?
Not discounting that MB’s most recent ATF specification may not have the ideal clutch plate friction ingredients for crisp performance and ultimate longevity from our 722.6 five speed transmissions. I’ve yet to try it in mine. Have two more complete flushes of the old stuff on hand ‘til it’s time to buy more. However, it seems rather silly that its apparent lack of ‘seal swell’ is sufficient cause to preclude its use during a fluid renewal for those who don’t have a stash. Understand Mercedes-Benz’s desire to consolidate and streamline their consumables inventory. Nonetheless, that damn TCU seal has been revised and/or superseded about a half-dozen times since its initial iteration. They’re an easy half hour swap.
It’s the premature self-insured ~$5000 DIY transmission replacement that sometimes gives me sleepless nights.
photo credit withheld to protect another victim
06-26-2009, 10:45 PM
#58
Super Moderator
No sense in one having to receive an ATF shower any more often than absolutely necessary.
<--- Don’t be nincompoop like this guy and have to do the same task twice.
Current plug adaptor PN is 203 540 02 53
photo credit waldig
When you are tuning [and diagnosing], watch the results.
If the results disagree with your theory, believe the results and invent a new theory! Mike Urich, SAE.
06-27-2009, 01:26 AM
#59
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I agree completely. Owe you and emrliquidlife a retraction and apology, too.
No sense in one having to receive an ATF shower any more often than absolutely necessary.
<--- Don’t be nincompoop like this guy and have to do the same task twice.
Current plug adaptor PN is 203 540 02 53
photo credit waldig
When you are tuning [and diagnosing], watch the results.
If the results disagree with your theory, believe the results and invent a new theory! Mike Urich, SAE.
No sense in one having to receive an ATF shower any more often than absolutely necessary.
<--- Don’t be nincompoop like this guy and have to do the same task twice.
Current plug adaptor PN is 203 540 02 53
photo credit waldig
When you are tuning [and diagnosing], watch the results.
If the results disagree with your theory, believe the results and invent a new theory! Mike Urich, SAE.
Those black seals look just like what I got.
Anytime you want to post pics of those sexy pipes, be my guest. Sheet, I vote for a new thread with car poon, and I'm willing to bet a liter of new spec ATF, nothing can touch that sexy ish.
06-27-2009, 11:02 PM
#60
Super Moderator
Wait, it happened to you too?!
Those black seals look just like what I got.
Anytime you want to post pics of those sexy pipes, be my guest. Sheet, I vote for a new thread with car poon, and I'm willing to bet a liter of new spec ATF, nothing can touch that sexy ish.
Those black seals look just like what I got.
Anytime you want to post pics of those sexy pipes, be my guest. Sheet, I vote for a new thread with car poon, and I'm willing to bet a liter of new spec ATF, nothing can touch that sexy ish.
About six months after its first flush, noticed leakage from the connector during subsequent undercar maintenance.
First ever post here was a DIY ATF renewal. Wasn’t sharp enough to replace those seals concurrently.
Three years later I’m still whoring up the joint dispensing marginal advice.
Wish that was my exhaust system. It’s on hooleyboy’s 450 horsepower supercharged C55.
Those lame seals know no decency.
Last edited by splinter; 10-06-2010 at 07:02 AM.
06-28-2009, 07:10 AM
#61
Super Moderator
splinter - You give more than your fair share of excellent advice. So yours leaked after replacement with the same fluid - interesting - strikes me that new fluid of whatever spec causes some elastomer swell changes.
Damn - something carnal about those pipes !!!!!!!!!
Damn - something carnal about those pipes !!!!!!!!!
06-29-2009, 04:29 AM
#62
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Thread Starter
I was going to put the car on ramps to inspect the offending location just to be sure.
It occurs to me, to have the parts handy so I don't have to the job twice.
It occurs to me, to have the parts handy so I don't have to the job twice.
06-29-2009, 08:35 AM
#63
Super Moderator
With my "free" maintenance coming to an end I will have to contemplate cleaning off the spanners again. Think I'm going to keep a spare handy.
07-03-2009, 07:37 PM
#64
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Hey Todd,
I just got my tranny flushed, and now my shifts are jerky.. Don't know if it should be a concern, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. My pops took it to some shop and had it done without my consent, so I'm kinda lost. Is it normal for it to be jerking? I'm hoping that it will get fine after a few hundred miles. Let me know, thanks!
I just got my tranny flushed, and now my shifts are jerky.. Don't know if it should be a concern, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. My pops took it to some shop and had it done without my consent, so I'm kinda lost. Is it normal for it to be jerking? I'm hoping that it will get fine after a few hundred miles. Let me know, thanks!
07-03-2009, 10:23 PM
#65
Super Moderator
Mu - excuse me jumping in - I'm sure Todd will give you an answer.
First thing to check is did they put the correct fluid in. E.g. If they put in Ford fluid it will jerk like hell.
First thing to check is did they put the correct fluid in. E.g. If they put in Ford fluid it will jerk like hell.
07-03-2009, 11:55 PM
#66
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Thanks Glyn for the quick response.
That's what I'm afraid of.. I don't know the specifics because my father thought it would be best to go get it done without letting me know first. And I can't take it to the shop as it is the Fourth tomorrow. Damn!
That's what I'm afraid of.. I don't know the specifics because my father thought it would be best to go get it done without letting me know first. And I can't take it to the shop as it is the Fourth tomorrow. Damn!
07-04-2009, 01:26 PM
#67
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Thread Starter
Our cars require specific fluids, made to specific specs.
Coming from the world of Italian cars, FIATS and Alfa's, I'm used to
this. All fluids are not created equal.
I used to have to use GL1 oil in my X19 tranny.
GL1 is such an old spec. Current is GL5.
But using newer "better" oil resulted in several destroyed trannies, before
I finally located compatible oil. And this was what the mechanic told me to use.
Wrong!
So, yeh, for me, I would avoid driving the car till you can determine what the hell is going on, what fluid was used etc.
You'll need to do a full flush of all the crap fluid.
07-04-2009, 10:27 PM
#68
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01' C32o
Thanks guys. I have no choice but to drive around with this until Monday 
What specific oil will my car need? I want to search but my phones browser is givi g me a HArD time. Thanks again Glyn and Todd.
What specific oil will my car need? I want to search but my phones browser is givi g me a HArD time. Thanks again Glyn and Todd.
07-04-2009, 10:35 PM
#69
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Oh abd quick question. Will the PN for the new seal work with my 320? I got a bit more reading done abd I think I will go abd replace it while I'm at it. Thanks gentlemen!
07-05-2009, 09:06 AM
#70
Super Moderator
Mu - that seal PN is common to all 722.6 transmissions. Get the genuine fluid from the dealer meeting Benz spec 236.12 or 236.14 or Fuchs Titan 4134. I would not use the old 236.10 fluid.
Just for you from Mercedes Vietnam. File this.
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...e-products.pdf
Just for you from Mercedes Vietnam. File this.
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...e-products.pdf
07-05-2009, 03:56 PM
#71
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You being an X oil guy and all...
wouldn't the stuff designed for the 5 speed, be the best stuff to use in the 5
speed?
Otherwise, why would they keep making it?
wouldn't the stuff designed for the 5 speed, be the best stuff to use in the 5
speed?
Otherwise, why would they keep making it?
07-05-2009, 06:22 PM
#72
Super Moderator
Merc usually keep 2 generations of product available for all applications. Price thing & shorter drain intervals in some markets. I would go for the latest - It's quite a big step forward in maintenance of shift quality, oxidation resistance & maintains it's viscometrics for longer.
07-28-2009, 03:13 PM
#74
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Thank you all very much
A great thread.
Found that the 2004 C230 (M271 with 722.6 transmission) was shifting poorly; and at times while cruising would downshift randomly,. Only a shut down re-start would get things back to normal. The condition started to occur more frequently. Only let this go on for 2 days and put the car up on the ramps to check things out.
Found the leaking connector to the TCU. Mine had orange seals and the replacement has black as shown earlier in this thread. Took old out, cleaned connector with proper cleaner and replaced. While there changed out filter, refilled with the new factory fluid from the dealer.
All is well now and things are back to normal. Funny thing the parts guy did not even have to look up the part and just grabbed it from a bin, must be a very common complaint.
About $140 in parts saved a potential huge bill down the road so thank you all very much for the great thread.
Found that the 2004 C230 (M271 with 722.6 transmission) was shifting poorly; and at times while cruising would downshift randomly,. Only a shut down re-start would get things back to normal. The condition started to occur more frequently. Only let this go on for 2 days and put the car up on the ramps to check things out.
Found the leaking connector to the TCU. Mine had orange seals and the replacement has black as shown earlier in this thread. Took old out, cleaned connector with proper cleaner and replaced. While there changed out filter, refilled with the new factory fluid from the dealer.
All is well now and things are back to normal. Funny thing the parts guy did not even have to look up the part and just grabbed it from a bin, must be a very common complaint.
About $140 in parts saved a potential huge bill down the road so thank you all very much for the great thread.
07-28-2009, 03:47 PM
#75
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Thread Starter
Yeh, same with my guy, he knew right where to find everything.
A very common failure.
We talked about the lack of a drain in the torque converter too,
as it was a 'cost savings measure' and he said those leak too, so 6 of one etc. as far as having the TC drain or having to flush, and not worrying about the drain plug leaking.
Who woulda thunk mercedes would have f'ups like this.
All my friends say exactly what I thought when I bought.
A mercedes has these problems??? You're kidding!?
IT"S A MERCEDES! Ha, that what I thought when I bought...
now I know they build the best Italian cars in all of Europe!
A very common failure.
We talked about the lack of a drain in the torque converter too,
as it was a 'cost savings measure' and he said those leak too, so 6 of one etc. as far as having the TC drain or having to flush, and not worrying about the drain plug leaking.
Who woulda thunk mercedes would have f'ups like this.
All my friends say exactly what I thought when I bought.
A mercedes has these problems??? You're kidding!?
IT"S A MERCEDES! Ha, that what I thought when I bought...
now I know they build the best Italian cars in all of Europe!
A great thread.
Found that the 2004 C230 (M271 with 722.6 transmission) was shifting poorly; and at times while cruising would downshift randomly,. Only a shut down re-start would get things back to normal. The condition started to occur more frequently. Only let this go on for 2 days and put the car up on the ramps to check things out.
Found the leaking connector to the TCU. Mine had orange seals and the replacement has black as shown earlier in this thread. Took old out, cleaned connector with proper cleaner and replaced. While there changed out filter, refilled with the new factory fluid from the dealer.
All is well now and things are back to normal. Funny thing the parts guy did not even have to look up the part and just grabbed it from a bin, must be a very common complaint.
About $140 in parts saved a potential huge bill down the road so thank you all very much for the great thread.
Found that the 2004 C230 (M271 with 722.6 transmission) was shifting poorly; and at times while cruising would downshift randomly,. Only a shut down re-start would get things back to normal. The condition started to occur more frequently. Only let this go on for 2 days and put the car up on the ramps to check things out.
Found the leaking connector to the TCU. Mine had orange seals and the replacement has black as shown earlier in this thread. Took old out, cleaned connector with proper cleaner and replaced. While there changed out filter, refilled with the new factory fluid from the dealer.
All is well now and things are back to normal. Funny thing the parts guy did not even have to look up the part and just grabbed it from a bin, must be a very common complaint.
About $140 in parts saved a potential huge bill down the road so thank you all very much for the great thread.
