P0012 - Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)

[Glyn M Ruck]

Great v8. Wish you well with MB & wrenching yourself - whichever applies. Sorry. I could have been more precise with that rear counterweight/damper that requires replacement. http://mbworld.org/forums/attachment....30-08i-2-.pdf

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[Chung Nguyen]

Hi Collective wisdom,
I need to replace the exhaust camshaft magnet on the passenger side as well and reading through this forum I can locate them, but I can't tell which one is the intake and which one is the exhaust on the right hand side.
Can anyone help?

Much thanks
Chung

Originally Posted by pcy

they are highlighted in post #117 (scroll up).

If that's not clear, here's another photo...

[memorylanetoys]

Hi, facing the engine, the exhaust magnet is the one to the far left, and it's lower than the intake cam magnet. A mirror image of the driver's side, so to speak.

[ChrisBrown]

Caulk up another crankshaft position censor failure.

2005 C240 4MATIC with 139,000 miles.

[v8deuce]

Well I'm back to give everyone an update on my 06 280 4matic! Since I was deturmaned to do this job myself I had to rent a hoist but everything else I had from my past life as an tech.Things started out ok,I have never removed an engine by itself (alldata says to remove engine along with trans) so I knew I was on my own in a few area's but I had time on my side.I was very surprized all the bellhousing bolts were very easy to remove, set the a/c pump aside remove the exhaust,motor mount bolts ,one big connector for wiring and the engine is out!Before I put it on the engine stand I removed to rear cover so I could see the counter weight,I went to remove the bolt holding it on but the whole shaft turned??? could the shaft be broke as it took no effort at all to turn the weight with one finger?? So I put it on the stand and started to remove the front cover.This started to be trouble as a couple bolts were under the cam sprockets and I started to dought myself so I struck a deal with my local mb dealer and dropped it off there.In hindsight I should have took off the heads and done it myself but oh well another lesson learned.

This is all the parts they changed, with new head gaskets and four new magnets again ( I just put 4 on less than 50 kms before ) and of course the worn out balance shaft gear.

I added the crank gear that runs the oil pump for compairision to show that the balance shaft gear was as round and smooth as a baby's bum. Ok I have the repaired engine in my hands and set it back in place,my first job is to run the car for about 50 kms with regular 10-30 oil to get any metal fillings from old gear out or at least in the new filter then drain and put in mb oil ok I can do that but a block down the road the low coolant lite starts to flash??? I know it was full but I top it off again and get about 20 kms down the road and it's on again?? I check under the car no leaks?? so I top it up for the third time and get back home (another 20 kms) lite is on again,I jack the car up and remove the plastic shield under engine but can't see any leaks??? this is the time when I need to sleep on it and look at it again in the morning but morning don't arrive yet when I sit up in bed with a brainstorm of a leaking head gasket or intake gasket,I go to the garage and sure enough the oil is milky!!! No sleep the rest of the nite, I call mb and they said no worries we will look after it. And true to thier word a day later I have another new head gasket car runs great I got new oil and a warrenty. Two days later I take the wife for a 2000 km week long trip,no check engine lite,runs beautiful,great milage,smooth what more can a guy want? Oh ya after driving for about 5 kms a warning comes on the dash comes on saying stop at next gas station and check oil level??? After checking it a couple times (it's full) I clue in that the level indacator in the oil pan is wonky so another call to the dealer "well if it something we did we will look after you but if it's not you will have to pay" whats the chance it's going to be thier fault? I really like the car now I just hope it lasts until 2020 so I get my moneys worth out of it. Take care and remember ALWAYS have a new to you, car checked out by a dealer before you buy it they know the cars better than the shop down the block where I took mine, just my two cents worth or in this case $6 grand worth

Randy

[johnand]

Wowzers You have a big pair there Randy Congrats on a successful balance shaft repair. Here's to hoping for many carefree miles!

[crow944]

My 2008 C-350 is currently at the dealer because of the CEL. They did a diagnostic on the car and the DTC codes 1200/1208 (P0017/P0016). They replaced two sensors, but that didn't fix the CEL.
They now are telling me that because my engine s/n is beyond the range of defective balance shaft sprockets, this is not the problem. They said that they will need to replace the timing chain as it appears to be slightly stretched. This job will be aprox. 7hrs to replace at a cost of $2000.

My question is, if the serial number of my car is beyond the range of bad sprockets and if I get the two DTC codes, is it possible i still need to service and replace the balance shaft/sprocket? I am a bit nervous to dish out $2k on timing chain replacement and I get the CEL again.

Any comments is greatly appreciated.

[v8deuce]

The only problem I can see is if they get it apart and find out the balance shaft gear is worn out then you would be on the hook for more repairs.If you get a written estamate it will be thier problem if more work is needed. If they give you a written one then they are comfortable known what's happening.

Randy

[Glyn M Ruck]

Originally Posted by crow944

My 2008 C-350 is currently at the dealer because of the CEL. They did a diagnostic on the car and the DTC codes 1200/1208 (P0017/P0016). They replaced two sensors, but that didn't fix the CEL.
They now are telling me that because my engine s/n is beyond the range of defective balance shaft sprockets, this is not the problem. They said that they will need to replace the timing chain as it appears to be slightly stretched. This job will be aprox. 7hrs to replace at a cost of $2000.

My question is, if the serial number of my car is beyond the range of bad sprockets and if I get the two DTC codes, is it possible i still need to service and replace the balance shaft/sprocket? I am a bit nervous to dish out $2k on timing chain replacement and I get the CEL again.

Any comments is greatly appreciated.

The codes they are getting are a clear indication that you do have the worn sprocket issue.

[crow944]

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck

The codes they are getting are a clear indication that you do have the worn sprocket issue.

Thanks Glyn,

So would it be possible to still have the balance shaft sprocket problem even though my engine s/n supersedes the range on Mercedes SB?
The service adviser said they called MB Canada and they assured that replacing the timing chain would resolve the issue. I received a written quote for timing chain repairs.

Crow944

[Glyn M Ruck]

See post #239 on this thread.

There have certainly been the odd failure outside the Bulletin VIN window. I think they are trying to duck the issue. What mileage on your car? Duplex chains should last the life of the engine.

[crow944]

Originally Posted by crow944

Thanks Glyn,

So would it be possible to still have the balance shaft sprocket problem even though my engine s/n supersedes the range on Mercedes SB?
The service adviser said they called MB Canada and they assured that replacing the timing chain would resolve the issue. I received a written quote for timing chain repairs.

Crow944

Yes, I have read post and it is does make sense.

My car has been in the shop since Wed.,they gave me a loaner car in the meantime. Won't be ready until next week as the job was delayed due to other vehicles.
I sent my service adviser and asked him the have the technician check all sprockets while the timing chain is beinging replaced to make sure they are not worned. Will hear the verdict next week.
I know you said the double chain should last the lifetime of the engine, but have you heard of balance shaft sprockets being worn even though s/n is pass the range?

[Glyn M Ruck]

Originally Posted by crow944

I know you said the double chain should last the lifetime of the engine, but have you heard of balance shaft sprockets being worn even though s/n is pass the range?

I replied "There have certainly been the odd failure outside the Bulletin VIN window"

So yes we have seen failures outside the affected VIN's published by Benz as we have with castor bushes & transmissions. Benz never get their affected VIN's 100%

[crow944]

Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck

I replied "There have certainly been the odd failure outside the Bulletin VIN window"

So yes we have seen failures outside the affected VIN's published by Benz as we have with castor bushes & transmissions. Benz never get their affected VIN's 100%

Ok. We'll just hope for the best and see how this plays out. Thanks.

[v8deuce]

Crow944 I see you are from oakville so am I. I was dealing with Martin at oakville MB and he was very good to me so if they said that is all it is I'm sure he will stand behind his quote if the balance gear is gone and more work is required

Randy

[crow944]

Originally Posted by v8deuce

Crow944 I see you are from oakville so am I. I was dealing with Martin at oakville MB and he was very good to me so if they said that is all it is I'm sure he will stand behind his quote if the balance gear is gone and more work is required

Randy

Hi Randy, I am dealing with Jeff @ Burlington dealership. So far they seem supportive. Will know the outcome on Tuesday. They will check all sprockets for wear when the timing chain is out.
Did you have balance gear issues?
Thanks!

[crow944]

Originally Posted by crow944

Hi Randy, I am dealing with Jeff @ Burlington dealership. So far they seem supportive. Will know the outcome on Tuesday. They will check all sprockets for wear when the timing chain is out.
Did you have balance gear issues?
Thanks!

Randy, I read your post#280. What a journey you went through to get your car repaired. I have to give you the thumbs up for sharing this with everyone.
Will keep everyone updated on my repairs.

[crow944]

Originally Posted by crow944

Randy, I read your post#280. What a journey you went through to get your car repaired. I have to give you the thumbs up for sharing this with everyone.
Will keep everyone updated on my repairs.

I picked up my car from MB dealer after they replaced the timing chain, tensioner.
Drove it for 500km and everything seems fine. No CEL on. Usually the light would of came on within 15min of driving.

Dealer goodwil the parts and charged for 7.5hrs labour. Total charge with taxes $910.

[v8deuce]

Thats awesome they do know what they are doing I have had some good luck also as my oil level indicator has not come on in the last 500 km maybe it was sticky?

Randy

[pusathan]

My 2006 ml350 (120,000km) also has same problem: 1200 & 1208. Mb service offer 50% discount (for both parts & labor cost), i think to accept it. What do you think?

[Glyn M Ruck]

I would accept it. You have 120K on the clock & I think that is a fair deal.

[pusathan]

Thank you for your comment, it is also what i think

[chmura]

I just got the p0016 code (no p0017) on my car today. It happened right after I floored it with sport mode on out into the street with tires screeching and all, I rarely do that with the car. Haven't replaced any magnets or sensors. What would you suggest I do first? It sometimes accelerates poorly, did that before the code popped up too.

[LuxS2k]

Just want to thank John and all of the other contributors to this thread. I was able to fix my girlfriend's c230 by replacing the magnets and saved us a (much needed) $1000. I will likely not be around here much- but wanted to say hello and extend my gratification. This selfless sharing of information affected two strangers' lives for the better!

-Zac

[pusathan]

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