Go Back   MBWorld.org Forums > Mercedes-Benz Sedans > C-Class (W203)
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


C-Class (W203) 2001-2007, C160, C180, C200, C220, C230, C240, C270, C280, C300, C320, C230K, C350, Coupe

Sponsored by : My Mercedes Parts
Click Here

Welcome to MBWorld.org!
Welcome to MBWorld,

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!


Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-31-2008, 03:56 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 27
Drives: 99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
P0010 code and rough running now no start

My girlfriend started her car today (03 c230 Komp coupe) and she said it was running roughly. I told her to leave it and I will check it out. I get home and start it and its running roughly and I pull 2 CEL codes from it:

p0010- For the camshaft position sensors
p0600- for serial link

I did some research and thought it was most likely the camshaft sensors leaking oil into the connectors and causing this issue. So I went to the car and pulled off both camshaft plugs and saw no oil. I also pulled off the ECU plugs and saw no oil as well. I cleaned them just in case and put it back together and now it won't start at all. Is there something I am overlooking? I just pulled off 4 connectors and plugged them back in and it won't start. It just cranks and doesn't seem to fire at all. Can it be spark plug related? What kind of tools are needed to work on this car. I have some 12 point sockets at home but the look like inverted torx. Thanks for any help at all
To remove this ad, register today or login if you already are registered!


Last edited by one fast gto; 12-31-2008 at 07:54 PM.
one fast gto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 12:59 AM   #2
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 14
Drives: 01 C320
I had the same problem. It was CPS (crankshaft position sensor). I think it was around $400 to replace at dealership. The part is cheap but labor was expensive.
01Benz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 06:09 AM   #3
Super Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 979
Drives: 190D, 190E 2.6, C240, C43, C220cdi
Crank position sensors tend not to playup on M271 engines.

I would recheck that the plug at the engine control unit is clean and secure. If the inlet cam sensor was disconnected then the exhaust cam signal becomes the substitute and I doubt both sensors have failed at the same time.

The cam sensor can fail but the engine light comes on at it may loose some power but it won't run roughly. I doubt the codes are related to the rough running but you now need to get the engine running to recheck.

Was the engine light on before you started working on it?
What did you clean the electrical plug with?

Last edited by Ausmbtech; 01-01-2009 at 06:12 AM.
Ausmbtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 11:59 AM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 27
Drives: 99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
The engine light was on before I started messing with the connectors. I just blew out the connectors and wiped them off. Why would the car run before then not run when I reconnected everything? Could it be a coincidence? Where is the crank sensor? It is located under the black plastic cover you remove to change the oil? What do you reccommend I check now? It has been really cold here around 20 degress but I doubt that had anything to do with it. Should the car run if the crankshaft position sensor is dead?

Last edited by one fast gto; 01-01-2009 at 12:05 PM.
one fast gto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 03:58 PM   #5
Super Moderator
 
Glyn M Ruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 18,306
Drives: late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Quote:
Originally Posted by one fast gto View Post
The engine light was on before I started messing with the connectors. I just blew out the connectors and wiped them off. Why would the car run before then not run when I reconnected everything? Could it be a coincidence? Where is the crank sensor? It is located under the black plastic cover you remove to change the oil? What do you reccommend I check now? It has been really cold here around 20 degress but I doubt that had anything to do with it. Should the car run if the crankshaft position sensor is dead?

The car won't run with a dead CPS
__________________

Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Glyn M Ruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:20 PM   #6
Super Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 979
Drives: 190D, 190E 2.6, C240, C43, C220cdi
The CPS is at the rear of the engine under the oil filter. It's not something you would have touched unless you were looking for it.

Recheck that both cam position sensors are plugged in (one above the exhaust manifold and one next to the ignition coils.

If ok, then clear the fault codes, try to restart then recheck the codes.
Ausmbtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 06:36 PM   #7
Super Moderator
 
Glyn M Ruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 18,306
Drives: late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I don't want to argue with our learned colleague, but you are in a hole if you can't get this thing started. I know of a number of M271 engines that have suffered CPS failure. What mileage has the vehicle done?

The obvious first things to recheck are what you disturbed - After that you can try unplugging the MAF to get the engine onto a default engine map etc. in an attempt to get the thing started.

Coil packs & wires, fuel pump sticking & not starting in cold weather, blocked fuel filter etc. are all possibilities. When fuel pumps are on their way out they sometimes refuse to run when ice cold - only when warm etc. Stick your head on the drivers side rear seat & see if you can hear the fuel pump start if you turn on the ignition after the car has stood for a few hours - high pitched buzz which will stop as soon as the ringmain is up to pressure. Coils & wires should have given you codes. The pump does not on many cars. What condition are the plugs in?

Basics 101 say you need to check you have spark - need to check the spark is at the right time = CPS & that you have fuel getting to the injectors which means you need to do a fuel pressure test on the ringmain. If all of these are right it should start. It might not run properly if something else is wrong but it should start or try to start. If we can get to that stage we can start worrying about other issues like temp sensors & adequate mixture enrichment when cold etc. - Check the above first.
__________________

Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Glyn M Ruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 07:13 PM   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 27
Drives: 99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
Ok, all of this makes sense but its extremely cold here in NY so I am not going to try and work on it until tomorrow. As of now, both front cam sensors are plugged in and both ecu connectors have been reseated as well. I tried this morning to start it and it wouldn't. It sounds like it is firing but I am not sure, it almost sounds like a very slight backfire from the engine. What tools do I need to work on the car? I have some 12 point sockets, will these work if I don't have inverted torx? Any idea what sizes I would need? On friday, I will check for spark and fuel and go from there. If the cam sensors are dead, will it run at all? The car has 60k miles and its an 03. I seem to think it is the cps but I think it is wierd that it threw a cam sensor code. Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it.
one fast gto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 12:38 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 27
Drives: 99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
Ok I have just did some testing and here are the results. I pulled a spark plug and cranked it over and the car is getting spark. I don't think it is getting fuel at this point. I turned the key and didnt hear the fuel pump and the plug I took out wasn't wet. What do I start with first on the fuel pump? Are there any fuses or relays to check? Is it right under the rear seat or do I have to go under the car to get to it? I have no clue why it threw a cam sensor code, I am really puzzled. I greatly appreciate the help.
one fast gto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 02:56 PM   #10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 27
Drives: 99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
Ok, this car is driving me crazy, I need some help very badly. I just checked the fuel pump and its making noise and I pulled another plug and it is wet which means it is getting fuel. So right now the car has:

Spark
Fuel
and it still will not start. What else can I check before I go crazy? A few questions. Will the car run if the cam sensors are bad and the cps is good. It will not run at all if the cps is bad? Now even though it is getting spark, it still may not be firing correctly and thus not starting? This car is confusing me to all hell. Thanks for all the help.
one fast gto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 03:25 PM   #11
Super Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 979
Drives: 190D, 190E 2.6, C240, C43, C220cdi
It will run with 1 bad cam sensor, not both. It won't run with a bad CPS.

If it's getting spark/fuel then it's not a CPS because you would have neither if it was bad. I've just re-read the function description of the M271 engine electrics and it says that if the signal from the CPS is missing then it can run from the cam sensors alone, but I think the part lost in translation is that it can only do this if the engine is already running, if you aare trying to start without the cps then it won't start.

I would suggest getting a fuel sample in a clear jar and let it sit for about an hour and see if it's cloudy or has water in it. While you're waiting for that try starting it with some "aero start"/starting fluid. If you don't have any then just use some wd40. The best place to spray it into the manifold is via the vacuum connection for the brake booster. Seeing it has spark it sound at least cough enough to come close to starting.

Have you cleared the fault codes and then rechecked for what codes come back? Code P0010 shouldn't return even if there is a fault because it needs a engine speed of 1600rpm or greater to log the code and I think the P0600 is a code for the alternator (phantom fault, not relivant)

You have checked the cam sensor connections? Remember they AREN'T the 2 at the front of the engine, they are the ones above the exhaust manifold and next to the ignition coils.

Last edited by Ausmbtech; 01-02-2009 at 03:40 PM.
Ausmbtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 03:29 PM   #12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 27
Drives: 99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
Oh so maybe that it my problem. I unplugged the front cam sensor connectors and not the ones you are describing. So they are next to the ignition coils? Maybe this was the problem all along. I will check these when the snow clears here. Do you have a picture or what exactly you are talking about? I also just added 2 gallons of fresh gas, so I doubt that is the issue. The car won't run at all but I did clear the codes before. I will check the connectors and codes now. Thanks again, I appreciate the quick response as I am under pressure and need to get it fixed.

Last edited by one fast gto; 01-02-2009 at 03:47 PM.
one fast gto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 03:47 PM   #13
Super Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 979
Drives: 190D, 190E 2.6, C240, C43, C220cdi
PM your email, i'll send the pics
Ausmbtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 04:03 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 27
Drives: 99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
I just went out to the car and checked the cam magnet sensor and saw no oil in the connectors. I only saw 1 cam sensor above the exhaust manifold but didn't see 2. Is the other one on the intake side? The airbox is blocking so I cannot see if it is there. I don't know what else to check at this point. PM sent
one fast gto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 04:23 PM   #15
Super Moderator
 
Glyn M Ruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 18,306
Drives: late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Here

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/attach...seat-20nut.jpg
__________________

Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Glyn M Ruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 04:29 PM   #16
Super Moderator
 
Glyn M Ruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 18,306
Drives: late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Sorry - Our messages have crossed because I was disturbed during my reply. I guess too much info can't hurt
__________________

Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Glyn M Ruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 04:47 PM   #17
Super Moderator
 
Glyn M Ruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 18,306
Drives: late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ausmbtech View Post
It will run with 1 bad cam sensor, not both. It won't run with a bad CPS.

If it's getting spark/fuel then it's not a CPS because you would have neither if it was bad. I've just re-read the function description of the M271 engine electrics and it says that if the signal from the CPS is missing then it can run from the cam sensors alone, but I think the part lost in translation is that it can only do this if the engine is already running, if you aare trying to start without the cps then it won't start.

I would suggest getting a fuel sample in a clear jar and let it sit for about an hour and see if it's cloudy or has water in it. While you're waiting for that try starting it with some "aero start"/starting fluid. If you don't have any then just use some wd40. The best place to spray it into the manifold is via the vacuum connection for the brake booster. Seeing it has spark it sound at least cough enough to come close to starting.

Have you cleared the fault codes and then rechecked for what codes come back? Code P0010 shouldn't return even if there is a fault because it needs a engine speed of 1600rpm or greater to log the code and I think the P0600 is a code for the alternator (phantom fault, not relivant)

You have checked the cam sensor connections? Remember they AREN'T the 2 at the front of the engine, they are the ones above the exhaust manifold and next to the ignition coils.
+1

Your P0600 code = 00600 P0600 CAN Serial Communication Link Malfunction to ESP
__________________

Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Glyn M Ruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 05:46 PM   #18
Super Moderator
 
Glyn M Ruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 18,306
Drives: late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
If you are unsuccessful with the cam sensor/s please check that you have the correct fuel line pressure for proper injection. We had a merry run with another member's car the other day in cold weather. The fuel pump was starting intermittently & the car would not start if it was left out in the snow. When the dealer had it in a relatively warm workshop it always started because the fuel pump would run. These pumps run fully flooded & magnetic material (rust) builds up on the magnets which finally causes the pump to seize. Cold weather can cause seizure while it will still run if warm.
__________________

Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Glyn M Ruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 06:41 PM   #19
Super Moderator
 
Glyn M Ruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 18,306
Drives: late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
BTW - what code did you really read? You head your thread P0100

P0100 = P0100 Hot-film mass air flow sensor signal incorrect (i.e MAF trouble)
P0010 = P0010 "A" Camshaft Position Actuator Circuit (Bank 1)

Just checking to make sure we are not chasing down the wrong thing
__________________

Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Glyn M Ruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 07:11 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: plainfield,nj usa
Posts: 96
Drives: none
yeap its the cam sensor
blas0827 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 07:49 PM   #21
Super Moderator
 
Glyn M Ruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 18,306
Drives: late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Quote:
Originally Posted by blas0827 View Post
yeap its the cam sensor
Hope you are right. Then we have another happy customer.
__________________

Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Glyn M Ruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 10:43 AM   #22
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 27
Drives: 99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
The codes I got were:

P0010 and P0600. I couldn't edit the original post sorry. Here is an update, I checked out the intake cam sensor this morning. There wasn't any oil on the connector at all. The sensor just looked oil caked a bit when I pulled it out.

So, What do you guys think is the next step? If the cps is good and the intake cam magnet is bad, will the car start? I am still getting fuel and spark but I am thinking at the wrong time. Does this make sense? Wouldn't the ecu read the exhaust cam magnet if the intake one is bad and start anyways? Is there a way to test that these sensors are bad using a multimeter? On the documentation I have it says that if no signal is received from the intake magnet, it will use the exhaust magnet to determine TDC of cylinder 1. So, wouldn't the car still start with this scenario? I still think it could be the cps. How hard is it to get to and can I test it as well. I need to remove the airbox right? Also what exactly does the P0600 mean? Thanks, I really appreciate it, you guys are so helpful.


I have located the intake cam magnet online and its around $112. Is this a normal price for this sensor? Should I try my local dealer lol? Thanks

Last edited by one fast gto; 01-03-2009 at 11:03 AM.
one fast gto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 05:01 PM   #23
Super Moderator
 
Glyn M Ruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 18,306
Drives: late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I would replace the inlet cam sensor & clean up the connector. I know of no way to home test the sensors. I don't know if the car will start on an exhaust sensor alone?? I've done some research on the P0600 code & all anybody can tell me is that it's a data feed to the ESP that is broken or corrupt - what data no one seems to know without a STAR - Maybe another member is more knowledgeable in this regard.

Our Australian friend should be more knowledgeable than me on the CPS issue. He maintains no fuel & no spark with a failed CPS - my experience tells me that he could be correct with total failure of the CPS but that many CPS failures/malfunctions do give spark & fuel but all out of synch because the engine is uncertain of TDC leading to shaking, rough running, hard starting, backfiring etc. & ultimately refusal to start.

I have posted all the camshaft codes for you below should you get the thing started & it throw other codes. These obviously cater for the V engines as well

I think the time has come to listen to the diagnostic output & change that cam sensor for a new one.


P0010 "A" Camshaft Position Actuator Circuit (Bank 1)
P0011 "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or
System Performance (Bank 1)
P0012 "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
P0013 "B" Camshaft Position - Actuator Circuit (Bank 1)
P0014 "B" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or
System Performance (Bank 1)
P0015 "B" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
P0020 "A" Camshaft Position Actuator Circuit (Bank 2)
P0021 "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or
System Performance (Bank 2)
P0022 "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 2)
P0023 "B" Camshaft Position - Actuator Circuit (Bank 2)
P0024 "B" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or
System Performance (Bank 2)
P0025 "B" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 2)

CPS is at the back of the block I've only got an awful diagram of the M111 but it's in the same area on the M271.

Click the image to open in full size.
Attached Thumbnails
P0100 code and rough running now no start-epc-20cps.jpg  
__________________

Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 01-03-2009 at 05:10 PM.
Glyn M Ruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 07:32 PM   #24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 27
Drives: 99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
Thanks for the help, I just ordered the cam sensor. It should be here by tuesday. I will update you guys on what happens. Thanks again
one fast gto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 10:48 PM   #25
Super Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 979
Drives: 190D, 190E 2.6, C240, C43, C220cdi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck View Post
I've done some research on the P0600 code & all anybody can tell me is that it's a data feed to the ESP that is broken or corrupt - what data no one seems to know without a STAR
The problem is that these are universal codes as per OBDII requirements. Sometimes they don't directly translate to MB codes. The closest I could get to a comparison is basicly a fault in the LINbus/serial to the Alternator but I wouldn't be sure unless the car was rescaned with STAR, it could be a communication fault with ESP too, lots of communication faults start appearing when a engine won't start. The low voltage during continous cranking starts shutting down non-essential control units.

The fault code for the cam sensor is a universal code so that's a certainty.
Ausmbtech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 10:48 PM
 
 
 
Reply

Tags
99, benz, camshaft, codes, cougar, crankshaft, jaguar, mercedes, p0025, position, removal, sensor, spark, start, wont, xj8



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:44 AM.


Copyright 2001-2012 InternetBrands, Inc. / MBWorld.org. All Rights Reserved.
Everyone's Personal Details