jkowtko

I'm sure you can ... for the right price. I would expect a repair shop to charge you upwards of $100 labor a PS fluid change. If you know what you're doing you can do this yourself in under an hour. The DIY at the beginning of this thread shows that this is not really that difficult. There's a factory-installed crimp clamp on that bottom return hose that you can pull off with pliers and replace with a regular screw type hose clamp.

What you can do right now though is check the level and color of the fluid. If the fluid level is very low, just adding a small amount may reduce the noise significantly.

Every one of those pulleys on the front of the engine connects to an engine component that has a turning shaft that is held by usually two bearings or bushings. The power steering pump should be no different. As the bearings/bushings wear over time they will vibrate when they're spinning, causing the noise. The bearings/bushings can't be repaired ... you have to replace them -- if they're replaceable. They are inside the PS pump so by replacing the pump you are replacing the bearings. But if the only thing wrong with the pump is worn bearings, and if the pump is rebuildable, then just replacing the bearings should be a much lower parts cost. (Unfortunately, offset by much more labor -- so unless you're doing this yourself the price that a repair shop would charge for this could exceed the cost of a new pump).


It looks like it's possible to overhaul these pumps (https://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c...-overhaul.html) but I'm not sure if the bearings or bushings are replaceable. And ... that assumes that the bearings are causing the noise. Again it could be the internals of the pump if the fluid is low (although I would have expected a mechanic to spot that immediately and tell you).

C230 Sport Coup

I want to thank you for posting intelligently!
Yes, you told us, what model, and year car you have, what part of the world
you hail from, and posted a video! Other newbs, take lessons!
I can't say from the vid exactly, you need a long long screwdriver, couple feet long,
put it next to the various pullies, and accessories, ie alternator, PS pump, and AC pump. and put your ear on the handle.
The loudest one wins.

Could be a pulley, or as someone said, low fluid.
At least you know it's not the supercharger! Since you don't have one.

Welcome to the forum.
Always a joy to help someone out who doesn't make us all play 50 questions.
Drain the PS reservoir using a pump and refill. I wouldn't mess with disconnecting the hose. Do that as part of regular maint. You'll always have clean fluid in there.
But I doubt thats the problem.
Have you at least checked the fluid level?

iee

Good work! Thank's for the DIY.

DaODB

The fluid level didn't seem too low, and I made the mistake of trusting an autozone technician and putting one of their fluids in it 2 days ago. I know, I know... terrible mistake.

Don't think I have a very long screwdriver so guess I'll have to make that purchase, and good thing I don't have to disconnect the hose because I am not very handy

Where can I purchase a pump? Just at an autoparts store and explain what I am doing??

Back in July when I got the Service B (Yes, it was still making the noise, but I honestly thought it was normal until my friends pointed it out) the only thing they called me about was the A/C compressor. They quoted me at $1,000 so I said no thanks! I am not so sure it could be this because the noise is there when the A/C is off.

jkowtko

Ugh ... I've heard that these systems are pretty temperamental and really need to have the right fluid in them to work properly. I had a bad shudder when cold before I refreshed my fluid. Definitely plan on doing a complete drain and fill when you do your repairs.

Any metal rod or pole (steel pipe, closet rod, copper water pipe, shishkabob/bbq skewer, etc) should work ... it just needs to be rigid and capable of propogating a vibration through it.

I've been purchasing my auto parts from partsgeek.com, rockauto.com, and rmeuropean.com. I think they all have PS pumps available. I don't know which brand(s) are best quality though, since I haven't done any research on this one.

So maybe it could be one of the other components? I know from experience that alternators and AC compressors can also make a lot of noise if their bearings wear out. You should really figure out which one it is for sure before shelling out $$$ for these items (they're each pretty expensive).

C230 Sport Coup

I didn't think it sounded that bad.

DaODB

Didnt sound that bad as in how? Not an AC or bearing problem or just in general? I could always wait until christmas and ask for a tune up as a present!! (Thats what most of my Birthday /christmas presents have been, lol)

Carsy

My previous car had a magnet attached to the power steering level indicator which picked up a lot of fine black magnetic material. I changed the oil regularly & cleaned the magnet & the car did 350,000 km over 18 years without any problem with the power steering.

I have drilled a very small hole in my w 204 level indicator & attached with wire a small strong magnet. It does collect a small mount of material over a 12 month period.

jkowtko

Magnet sounds like an interesting idea ... although I didn't think this oil is lubricating any gears that would produce metal shavings.

DaODB, you might also want to listen to some youtube videos. There are a ton of them out there for PS pump, alternator, AC compressor, and idler pulley (yes, another pulley whose bearing could do bad). Search for them all and compare their issues to yours (Since in most cases they claim to know what's causing theirs).

DaODB

I know this is a civic, but this is EXACTLY what it sounds like. How do I go about going to the mechanic and telling his people I think they are wrong and it is something else!?


This is what I thought it was all along!

But, my front wheels (the ones doing the steering...) Do get an oily substance on them. Looks like I park in mud, and this has been happening forever. My dad thought it was just the brakes, which do need replacing also, as they squeel sometimes.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2zf7vuw.jpg

EDIT: OOPS!!! I need to read more haha. The comment (from the uploader) says that his power steering fluid was just low. I will try to buy a pump ASAP and get this stress off my chest!

Second EDIT: I meant a pump to extract all of the bad fluid in the power steering reservoir. I found a video online saying I can use a syringe. Is this true? That's what I was assuming I could use! Should have grabbed some from my Chem Lab LOL

jkowtko

So you're sure your PS fluid level is not low?

Fyi, if you have bad fluid in your PS fluid reservoir, you're not going to be able to change it out very easily by just emptying and refilling the reservoir. The reservoir holds less than half of the fluid in the system -- you'll have to change it several times to get the equivalent of a flush. I did it this way at first, and was able to change the color of my fluid from dark brown only to medium amber. So I bought another quart of fluid and ended up draining from the bottom hose the second time around.

DaODB

So basically follow the steps on this original post??

jkowtko

Pretty much. But I would still suggest as the first, immediate steps:

1) check fluid level of PS reservoir to make sure it's not low. The pump gets really loud if the fluid level is below minimum and it starts sucking air. I don't think you've confirmed this yet.

2) Assuming it's not fluid level then it will likely be a worn bearing. Do whatever you can to confirm which belt-driven accessory has the problem. Use a kitchen fork or butterknife if you don't have a screwdriver. Touch it to the housing of each belt-driven accessory, and to the head of the bolt of each idler pulley (the bolt heads on those should not be moving). You should be able to feel a difference when you are closer to or further away from the problem. Get in there and listen as closely as you can to each accessory ... you may be able to tell a bit audibly as well.

I found a belt diagram which should be close to or identical to your engine:



Looks like you've got a bit of troubleshooting to do ...
- the belt tensioner is like an idler pulley, but it's mounted on a spring and will supply tension to the belt. The bolt head in front should not be moving.
- I forgot about the water (coolant) pump -- those go out as well
- you should not have to check the crankshaft ...

DaODB

I tried making another video but it didn't really turn out well. The reservoir seems to be to the tiptop, but the coloration (from what I could tell) was a dark color, and reading this post it sounds like it's supposed to be very light.

I used a knife, and couldn't really determine what the hell I was doing I put it up to each one, and they all seemed to be moving pretty fast, lol. The knife actually kind of stuck to the generator pulley it was moving so fast. But audibly, it is no doubt coming from the right side, (where the power steering pump is). The fuse box or whatever on the right side is still making some sort of clicking noise, but I suppose that is normal. I had to get a new fuse box (installed at official Dealership) because my last one melted The idler pulley also was making a faint sound that may have been due to the turning of the gear, but this sound was no where near as loud as the sound from the right side (assuming the power steering pump)

Thanks!

Edit: The A/C Compressor IS below the power steering pump, so I wonder if when I got the Service B and he called me about the A/C, this is what he was talking about?

Double Edit: Listening to youtube videos of A/C Compressors "whining", their cars sound like a grinding of metal, not the whining like mine is having. My whine sounds like... an electric car or something? Lol. Furthermore, the noise is still present and does not get louder when the A/C is on, which makes it hard to believe that the compressor is the problem.

jkowtko

Mercedes-Benz is very specific about which fluids are approved for which components ... power steering fluid is one of the stricter ones. Improper fluid could affect seals and pump operation. There are only few brands of fluid that will do ... I think this is the spec page: http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/345.0_en.html. OTher threads state that any "CHF 11S" hydraulic fluid will do, but I've only used Pentosin.

The reservior should also NOT be full ... check the beginning of this thread -- it should show you where the fluid level should be.

If this were my car, based on fluid level, color and use of autozone fluid the first thing I would do is change the fluid, refill to the proper level, and see if that helps. $30 for a quart of overpriced PS fluid and a couple of cheap hose clamps is a lot less than $600+ for a new PS pump installed. Not to mention the cost of replacing a steering rack if that gets damaged.

Touch the knife to the body of the PS and AC pumps, not to the spinning pulley! What I said about the idler and tensioner pulleys -- these pulleys just spin freely on a bolt and serve only to route the belt (and in the case of the tensioner pulley, to keep the belt tight) ... so for these there is no "compressor" body and the only place to check for bearing noise would be on that bolt head, which should not be moving. For all others (PS, AC) the metal housing of that pump will carry the vibration of worn bearings. So you have confirmed right side of engine (looking from the front) ... PS, AC, and tensioner pulley are your choices.


That makes sense ... hopefully you can test this out yourself now and confirm where the noise is coming from.

From what I understand the AC compressor may always be running on these cars -- it's just the matter of the amount of load on the unit based on. Try the knife thing first to see if you pick up any vibrations from the AC compressor housing. And if you want to test turning the AC on, put it on Auto mode and turn the thermostat controls all the way down so the AC is locked at full blast.

mleskovar

Have you tried taking off the serpentine belt and turning each of the pulleys (that will turn) by hand? It's easy....the belt tensioner is spring loaded. Pry it up with a bar/screwdriver/socket and breaker bar on the nut in the middle of the pulley and slide off the belt. Put some pressure on the pulleys with your hand to simulate the belt pressure and if you feel any dragging or uneven rotation that could be it. I'm also assuming you bled the air out of the system by turning it full lock to lock a few times.

DaODB

Siphoning out now. Fluid is brown, and once the reservoir gets empty I turn the car on and turn the wheel to get more fluid to throw up The wheel is extremely hard to turn without the steering fluid! Didn't know it would be that insane, lol.

Found some "Bars" power steering cleaner, but the people at the store did not recommend it for my German foreign.

The noise is still happening even though most of the liquid is siphoned out. I suppose the bad news is coming that I have to get a new pump...

I'll keep y'all posted! Thanks for all the help!

jkowtko

The only way I would consider "cleaning" these systems is to flush it once, drive it for a week, then flush again.

DaODB

Just keeping y'all posted with the vids lol. Won't add the new stuff until later tonight (no I am not driving) haha


Does the whole liter go in?

jkowtko

The system should take maybe 3/4 of a liter total.

However if you only drained the reservoir, that's only 1/2 of the fluid in the system ... the other half of the fluid is held in the hose from the pump down to the steering rack and back up through the cooling tubes to the return hose. And I don't think running the pump will push out all of that other fluid ... when the reservoir is empty the pump is pumping air. You need to open the line down at the bottom to let all that other fluid drain out. Take another good look at the DIY on page 1 of this thread -- he explains it pretty explicitly. (his optional step was opening the top of the cooling hose to forcibly blow the old fluid out. But opening the bottom hose was not optional.)

Fyi, the first time I did this I did the drain-and-fill on the reservior only. Each time it took about 4/10 of the liter, so I did it twice. The fluid only got to a light amber color, not green. So I ended up getting a second quart and opening up the line at the bottom to drain out as much as I could. Much better result. If you have a small hose clamp I suggest you do that -- you'll get a much better flush. Otherwise you can do two drain-and-fills ... three if you think you can use little enough fluid for the first two flushes.

DaODB

Daylight slipped away from me but I walked up to the corner store and got some hose clamps and a funnel. I believe I have the tools needed to take off the clamp and put the new one back on after the drain, however, will I need a car jack to get under the car?

Thanks

jkowtko

Yeah, I forgot about that. There is a cover underneath the engine that you have to remove to gain access to the hoses under there. The DIY shows this I think. I use a pair of ramps for services like this. You really only need enough space under the car to get the bottom cover off.

If the PS fluid hasn't been drained before, then there will likely be a stock clamp on the hose. They're a little confusing to take off at first until you understand how they are latched. Unfortunately I can't find a photo of one anywhere. Basically the latch for the band looks like two claws, one on top of the other, holding the band tight. You can take a pair of pliers and pull the top claw off of the bottom one and the clamp will come apart. It takes about 2 seconds if you know how these clamps work. My first one took me a couple minutes to figure out.

DaODB

Well, I've made it this far and took off 8 screws, so 2 of them I guess were to the wrong thing

However, my hose doesn't look quite like the OP. Should I just snip the metal piece?



I'm about to just give up... I can't get it off...

jkowtko

There's a rear engine cover that also covers the front part of the transmission ... if you took off a couple of these screws, no worries. Just be sure to put them back If you took off something else that doesn't look like the engine cover screws, please send a pic so we can tell you if you need to tighten them to a certain torque.

Visually that looks like the correct hose to me ... mine was also in that location and had the rubber bumper on it to keep it away from that metal frame ... move the bumper on the hose to where it will hit the metal frame -- I assume that's it's purpose and that's where mine is located.

To remove that clamp, if you have pliers you can grab the claw by the sides and bend it along the cross-section of the clamp, perpendicular to the hose, to lift the top claw off the bottom one. You should be able to see on which side the top claw reaches around over the lip of the bottom claw. With a bit of effort this should pop off almost immediately. If you try to cut the band, it's pretty thick metal, so good luck. On other threads (fuel filter replacement, for example) people had a real hard time cutting it off.

Once you get the clamp off the hose will come off pretty easily. This hose is a return hose so it doesn't carry much fluid pressure, so when reassembling just get the new hose clamp on snug enough so you can't budge the hose, and it should be fine.

If removing this clamp doesn't phase you and you feel so inclined, then find the corresponding hose at the top of the radiator feeding back to the PS pump. Pull off that clamp and hose, and blow out the fluid left in the radiator tubing (not the hose), just to get out as much of the old fluid as possible. Again, top hose doesn't carry pressure so when you reassemble just tighten the new clamp to snug. I was actually able reuse the stock clamp I removed and got it to re-lock by carefully squeezing together with pliers ... only did this for the top hose since that connection would have the smallest chance of leakage. After several months it's still holding up

DaODB

It's sounding worse than before :/