jkowtko

Sounds like the new fluid is doing it's work. If your situation is the same as mine, you should see continued gradual improvement over the next few months. (... and by that time your attention will move to something else that is breaking on the car )

I've changed mine effectively three times last year, the first time was suck-n-fill from the reservoir only, and the second and third times I drained from the bottom. In all cases the fluid turns from the light translucent green to on amber color, and then gets darker and cloudy. The 'old' fluid on the first change was pretty dark and cloudy. For the later changes it was light to medium amber. I'm guessing that you'll never keep it that nice green color for long. Still, every time I put fresh fluid in it seemed to liven up the steering for several weeks.

Even though you're not supposed to have to change fluid more than once every few years, I look at it economically -- a $20 liter of fluid once a year sure beats the cost of a new pump and rack. So as long as my steering doesn't feel 'perfect' I will continue to do these flushes at least annually.

torquewrench

Folks,

Firstly, thank you to all for this informative post. Am contemplating flushing the system next week, together with an oil change.

A question - what is the outer diametre size of the bottom hose? Just in case I damage the original hose clamp in the process of removing it, and need to get a simple screw-type replacement?

Also, is there any reason why MB posts the part #A 000 989 88 03 on their BeVO website (http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/236.3_en.html)? I went to the local MB dealer yesterday, and the spare parts dept sold me 1 litre of A 001 989 2403 fluid, stating that it was the right PS fluid for my car. Original intention was just a simple top up, as it was slightly below the recommended mark. Imagine my horror when I discovered that the fluid in the reservoir was amber in colour and the new one is green. It wasn't until I read this thread that I realised that it turns from green to amber after a while. I guess the simple top up is out of the question now...

VVF

Why.. just top it up if you don't have time to flush now.
Anyway when you flush you are not going to be able to remove all the "old" fluid from the system.

jkowtko

EPC-net shows 15.5mm ... here in the US that's about 9/16 to 5/8", which sounds about right for the size of screw hose clamp that I fit on it. Fyi, I've removed the clamp a few times now -- it doesn't leak at all. There's little if any pressure in that return hose.

Out here we use spec 345.0 for the w203 power steering fluid ...

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/345.0_en.html

It looks like that is what they sold you. Pentosin and Febi both make CHF-11S which complies with this spec.

Different MBs take have different steering systems which take different fluids. it's possible the BeVO web site was citing fluid for a different Benz.

Better to drain from the return hose and get a better flush ... it's relatively simple if you have a pair of ramps and simple tools. Your steering system will appreciate it ...

torquewrench

Thanks for your replies VVF and jkowtko. Much appreciated.

VVF, space is a premium here in Germany and I do not have much room to work on the car in the common basement carpark. Finally found a auto workshop that hires out the hoist, tools, space, etc. Was planning on doing the oil change, and since the car will be up on hoists, I was contemplating flushing the PS as well......

jkowtko

Do you have an automatic transmision? If so, since you have a hoist you might want to consider doing the tranny filter and flush as well ... it's much easier to pull the pan if the car is raised up high.

torquewrench

Yes, it is an auto. The thought did cross my mind jkowtko. However, as the previous owner had it professionally serviced/flushed at the MB dealership approx. 10,000km/6,200mi ago, it may be a bit of an overkill....

To be honest, the oil change would be my first exploratory look at the internals of the car and to learn where everything is, etc. Last thing I want to do is to fiddle with something I do not quite understand and having to have it professionally fixed up over here. Not having mastered the language properly yet, and more importantly, not knowing of a good mechanic over here, I can just imagine the light bulb going off over the mechanic's head. "Aha, foreigner! Ka-ching (sound of cash register opening up)!"

jkowtko

Okay sounds like the tranny is in good shape for now.

How about fuel filter? Another good one to get while the car is up.

Also inspect the flex disks, and take a really good look at the front control arm bushings and the front sway bar links and bushings while you have the engine covers off for the oil change.

There are threads and DIYs galore for all of these ... read up as much as you can before taking your car into the garage.

torquewrench

Wilco jkowtko. Thanks for the tips.

mleskovar

My experience with mechanics in Germany is that they are professional and honest. Their rates are very good as well. Just ask your neighbors or any German acquaintance for a recommendation.

VVF

Ok, if you will have it on a hoist then it's a no-brainer
I thought you were deciding top-off vs. jacking it and flushing.
I rent an apartment and flushed mine in the apt. complex parking lot in 90F heat if that makes you feel better about the space

(Hmm, I think you might even be able to flush it without jacking the car up. The problem will be bleeding the air afterwards though.)

splinter

It's too bad we didn't import enough of them to our shores. :)

flying_whale

I just found this thread and it is really informative. I'm thinking of doing a flush on my 01 c320 and i was wondering, what do you need the wrench for? It's listed in the list of things needed by the first post, but never mentioned again. Just double checking before going to buy the "ingredients."

jkowtko

It just looks more impressive when you always have a wrench visible to passers by when you're working on a car ...

Seriously, it should have said "8mm socket", which is used to remove the bolts (screws actually) holding the underside engine cover on.

flying_whale

Thanks for the quick reply! I looked around the car and before I start working a few more questions came up.

First, is Pentosin 202 OK? It says on the back that it's compatible with chf 11s specs.

Second, I only have the car jack that came with the car, so just one, what side of the car should I lift because I don't fit under the car without lifting it.

About impressing passers, a girl came up to talk to me when changing my air filters. She thought it was cool that I worked on the car and gave me her number. Will see, maybe PS flush is more impressive and I will make sure to give credit where it's due.

turbonos7

LMFAO! I always have my 1/2 in drive Torque wrench out and people usually don't argue with me when they have car questions...some impact sockets are impressive too! lol!

Good thread though... I believe I will be doing this VERY soon also as I have a few of the symptoms mentioned here.
The one that caught my attention was the one where the car pulls slightly to the right on the highway even though the car has been perfectly aligned! I was scratching my head about that one for a while and now I just read this thread and DING! Light bulb went off in my head! So I hope this resolves that issue. Plus my wife had been complaining that the steering wheel is "hard to turn". I was telling her that she needs to "eat more meat...lol" but she might've been onto something here...

turbonos7

To answer your question on CHF 202 vs 11s, NO... specs are not the same. They are close but not close enough. This is the link to their site. Notice how MB is listed under the 11s spec sheet but not under 202. So I would stick to 11s.

http://www.pentosin.net/f_hydraulicfluid.asp

As for the last part of your post, it's been a while since I got a number (being married and all), but can I come by and work on my car next to yours on your driveway? I'll bring my torque wrench?!?!

flying_whale

Advance Auto parts won't take the 202 back and the Autozone next to me doesn't have 11s so I did a bit of digging and found this: http://www.pentosin.net/pressrelease...luid_Guide.pdf

Pentosin says that 202 is fully compatible and mixable with 11s, which would be helpful if true. For example, something along the lines of how 229.5 engine oils are recommended over 229.3 even though 229.3 was the original standard.

I just don't want it to be something like "202 is good for 11s" the same way "tranny fluid is lifetime for MB."

If you wanna join me, you are more than welcome. I still have to go through the phone numbers phase before the "oops, i'm married phase"

turbonos7

What concerns me is the fact that they don't just blanket over MYs with the 202, for example they say that for AUDI 2006 and up but under the 11s column, AUDI is listed up to 2005. If it said something like 11s good up to 2005 and then 202 said AUDI (all years) then that would imply that 202 has all the benefits of 11s and then some, making it superior over 11s but this is not the case. Instead, it sounds to me like they made some changes to 202 and either MB has not gotten around to testing the new formula (highly unlikely to me since this is their factory-fill product) or the "new" formula does not "jive" with something in the MB world and therefore they don't even want you to touch it. Pay attention to how for volkswagen both formulas are good but both liquids meet a different standard. What really drives it home for me is that MB is not even listed under 202.

In the end it is your car man, so do as you please. I would try NAPA auto parts also, Autozone, Kragen, O'reilly, etc, are too mainstream sometimes and won't have the "good stuff", Napa seems to not be like them so much.

One more thing you have to always be aware of the "Lawyer lingo" that is always used in marketing, labels, manuals, etc. and not just take it for what you think it means. i.e. the fact that Pentosin claims that the LIQUIDS 202 and 11s are compatible with each other means just that, meaning that if you mix them together they won't explode.... doesn't necessarily mean that they are INTERCHANGEABLE with one another. makes sense? Also, MB may be completely right when they say that a fluid that comes in the car is considered "lifetime" well, you have to ask yourself "What does that mean" and I'm sure in some obscure part of the literature you will find some small print stating that "MB refers to lifetime for any fluid capable of maintaining its libricative properties for at least 100k miles or more....blah...blah...blah.....except in instances where there is "HEAVY driving"" or some other condition that says that if you don't drive like a grandma then lifetime doesn't mean lifetime anymore... Companies are extremely good at covering their own asses.... just ask all those guys with the M272 and the balance shaft problem that MB won't recall? Anyways.... hope you get my drift!

jkowtko

These power steering systems are EXTREMELY sensitive to the type of fluid that you put in them. I had a horrible shudder problem due to likely incorrect fluid put in by the indy mechanic I used to use. It took several months with the correct fluid in the system for the shudder to go away. And the steering still isn't quite the same now. I will likely eventually replace the rack and pump ... and I attribute all of this to the incorrect fluid that was introduced.

So, unless you're willing to gamble your steering rack and pump, I would not put anything in there except for CHF 11s, Febi or Pentosin, or something you got from the MB dealership.

Glyn Ruck is very knowledgable on fluids ... hopefully he will comment here.

If you have only the tire jack, you might consider buying a pair of ramps, or driving the front wheels up on blocks to provide clearance. If you must use the one tire jack, the drain hose to disconnect is on the right side of the radiator, so you might want to jack up the right side of the car.

... and for you single guys who are out to impress the women, maybe someone can start a thread on the most effective fake car repairs you can stage in your driveway ...

flying_whale

Thanks for the detailed reply. I will do a bottom drain soon, I just replaced the reservoir fluid a few times.

I decided to take a gamble with the 202 since I realized that my reservoir was below the minimum on the dip-stick and it was almost black and really cloudy and steering was feeling very bad lately. I have no idea what was in it anyway since the last PS flush was before I bought the car. It feels way better, but I'm not gonna take a long term gamble on it, so I'm gonna order the 11s and do a bottom drain in a few weeks. I doubt allegedly interchangeable Pentosin fluid will kill my steering in a few weeks. One way to find out, I guess.

As for impressing the ladies, that is a very good question.

jkowtko

In my car, it took a few years for the steering shudder to develop. According to Glyn, something to do with the rubber seals in the rack swelling from saturation by the wrong hydraulic fluid. So yeah, if it's going to cause problems I wouldn't expect them immediately ... but it will take just as long to get rid of the problem as it takes for it to develop, so the sooner you get the correct fluid in there the better.

I just took a quick look online for references of 202 vs 11s ... it looks like 202 is a newer fluid, but it isn't on the MB 345.0 spec sheet so I have no idea whether it's backward compatible with 11s. For an extra $20, I say better safe than sorry.

Fyi, the local O'Reilly Auto Parts started carrying Pentosin CHF 11s a couple of months ago, so you might want to double-check all of the local auto stores before ordering online.

-- John

RDVT4ME

I just changed the PS fluid today. Fluid was brown, now a nice green. Easy job, especially with the Clic-r tool. No issues with the hose clamps. Had a groaning noise at low speed...gone now. Steering feels lighter. Thanks for the great DYI!!!!

torquewrench

Folks, maybe it is because I have not had my morning caffeine fix yet but I've just revisited this post and some of the pics in Xhale707's informative DIY have disappeared?? More specifically, pics to points 2, 4 and 6 in his original post.

Any ideas why?...

jkowtko

I can't see them either. He posted his pics on imageshack.com ... must have lost or moved a few of them. The URL has encoded directory names so probably not an easy task to find the photos if they are still on the site somewhere.

Xhale707, if yo'ure still out there, know that you can post pics as attachments directly on this web site ... it might make them more permanent wrt the postings that reference them.