spentHO

Hi There...
I have read through the threads and i cant seem to find what i am looking for. I have a 2006 C230 (203.052 m272.920) and the CEL is on throwing the codes P0016 & P0017. The performance is hit or miss, some times it runs perfectly fine and has great acceleration, then sometimes it runs really poorly and the acceleration is very slow. I have been lucky that the car has not died on me but after being in the car for a bit and coming to a stop the car starts to shake a tad and the RPM's get low when idling. I am hoping it is just my camshaft position sensor and not an extensive problem like I've read on a few threads.

What i am looking for is to find out which of the four CPS's are which(like which side of the car and if it is towards the windshield or the front bumper). The ODB scanner says Bank 1 Sensor A & B and i would like to keep from having to buy all four sensors when i only need two.

Any input is greatly appreciated and if any pictures are available that would be HUGE!

Thanks!

ontmiss

sorry, forget above, I messed up crank with cam
here is crank sensor pics if it's of any help

Glyn M Ruck

See Johnands thread here:

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...-bank-1-a.html

You need to replace the magnets & not the sensors. It is a known problem on the M272 engine & the magnet assemblies have been redesigned. Fortunately cheap.

spentHO

I ended up taking the car to an Indy shop last week that a friend works at and he pulled the codes 1200 & 1208 off of their STAR machine. The owner of the shop told me that the timing chain needed to be replaced and that the oil was sticky in the timing chain and that it has happened a lot on the m272.920 motor. He said that i would need receipts showing that the oil had been changed and if i had them then i might be able to get the dealership to work with me. That will be hard for me because i have a guy that works at the MB dealership do the oil changes at his house for cheaper.

Having heard that news i def had to get a second opinion so i ended up taking the car to the stealership to see if i got the same answer before even thinking about doing the repair. So this morning i received their answer; Same codes from their STAR machine (1200 & 1208) but their virdict was different than the indy shop. The quote says "REPLACE ENGINE BALACE SHAFT ( GEAR WORN)" - **See attached**

So now im confused, how could two different shops quote me two different repairs for the same code? I assume that one has to be wrong, but which would be the one that is wrong? Is there anyway for one to know what is wrong over the other by just looking at the car? From what i understand the balance shaft is inside the motor so i would have to assume the stealership is going off of the star machine to base their decision on the repair. Is it possible that it could be the timing chain over the balance shaft? To even go further, is is possible maybe just a sensor is bad causing all of these codes? the reason i ask is because i've seen some posts in here that dealers have quoted removign the entire engine and it only being a sensor...


As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

johnand

P0016 and P0017 are crankshaft and camshaft correlation errors. I suspect both shops are trying to take you for a ride. From my understanding these codes are a little different than the camshaft position errors that I had and Glyn pointed you to the post. But, I think that is where you should start.

The driveability issues you posted are indicative of camshaft and crankshaft position issues.

I would suggest 1st replacing the magnets on bank 1 (passenger side of engine), both intake and exhaust camshaft ones, then resetting CEL and see what happens. If that doesn't fix it, I would then replace the CPS (crankshaft position sensor.) These steps will eliminate any of the commonly known problematic parts. Plus, the parts are cheap and easy to replace.

spentHO

Thanks for the input!

I did make some headway with Mercedes Benz of USA though. I contacted them and spoke with someone there and told them my problem and that my extended warranty just went up in August. After a few days and having to send them oil change receipts, they are going to cover the repair job!!!

After speaking with a few people at various MB dealerships i guess they have had this problem enough for it to become an issue.

I will let you know what the final problem is after they take the engine out and disassemble it...

Thanks!

Gavonder

This might be something to consider - although this says the code is "064". It's a class action suit related to the balance shaft.

A friend of mine that is an independent mechanic just told me about this yesterday. I know I will be watching this carefully..

GA

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/10/07/Mercedes.pdf

OneOfaKindTrini

.. Look at my thread on this too. I have a picture.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...er-retard.html

spentHO

Thanks! I'm sure the dealer will replace it if there is a need for it...I'm just stoked that MB USA is going to do this nearly 6k job at no charge to me even though im out of my extended warranty already.

I will post the work order when i get the car back...Dropping it off in the morning to start the repair!

LILBENZ230

Good to see MB step up to the plate for you! Do post the details.

Your username.. you're a spent ho? j/k

spentHO

Tell me about it! I sure will...Just dropped it off this morning and they said it would take 3-4 days to complete...

Haha...pretty much minus the ho part...its pretty easy to remember if you just say im spent ho...like i'm f*cked up...haha...im dumb...made it up back in the day and just stuck with it...

Maisonet_36

I have been experiencing some of the same problems most MB owners have had with some of the symptoms they've posted. I'm aware of the class action lawsuit, but the engine serial number of my car does not appear to be covered within the listings that have been issued (Equipped with M272 Engine up to Serial No. 2729..30 468993). The ending six digits of my engine's serial number is 481102.

One of the questions I have is as follows;

Is my engine equipped with the updated balance shaft apart from the other serial numbers issued on the Star bulletin board or Action Lawsuit?

I've had the cam magnets and crank position sensors replaced. Initially, the codes of the car read P0016, P0017, P0300, P0301, P0302, and P0303. Spark plugs have been replaced as well and there are no signs of the ignition coils being faulty.

After replacing the cam magnets, the CEL was reset and stayed off until the vehicle was running for approximately 15 minutes. The CEL came on again and displayed code P0011, P0300, P0301, P0302, and P0303. The codes P0016 and P0017 are no longer present; although, after further diagnosing, one of the out put results shows that there isn't any voltage across the O2 sensor on Bank 1.

Will this trigger timing issues and cause the vehicle to misfire within a complete cylinder?

Any information regarding the problems I'm experiencing is greatly appreciated.

spentHO

Got the car back today and everything is all good! I will scan the invoice in a little while after i redact my personal info...only had to pay for the new wiper blades!!!

ataie

ok, I just replaced ALL for cam magents and the crank sensor and the CEL comes right back on. zero difference from before with the same codes P0016 & P0017. any assistance would be appreciated.

thanks,
06 C230

Maisonet_36

If none of the parts you exchanged made a difference on the vehicle's performance and the codes out put are the same, you have a faulty balance shaft. The balance shaft is located inside the engine and is part of your engine's timing components. Depending on the extent of how damaged the balance shaft is, you may also have to replace timing chain, guide rails, and oil pump. Labor is extensive and the cost for all the parts will run you about $1,200, including gasket sealer.

ataie

faulty balance shaft on a 2006 with 60k miles? how certain are you about this diagnosis? what happens if the car is drivein without fixing this? it runs and drives excellent.

Maisonet_36

My vehicle had approximately 62K miles when it began giving me problems. I obtained 3 estimates, including one from the dealer after diagnosing the car. All of the test results indicated that the vehicle had a faulty balance shaft. Prior to the repair, I exchanged some parts as suggested from other sources such as cam magnets, crank sensor, and swapping the cam sensors from one side of the engine onto the other since they appear to be common problems with these vehicles. None of these inexpensive attempts to repair the car worked; and, I was reluctantly left with no other choice than to proceed with the suggested repairs.
There are a lot of postings across the internet illustrating the problems and consumer concerns about balance shaft issues and repair costs associated with some models and engine serial numbers that MB never addressed. For the affected models and engine serial numbers, the balance shaft on these vehicles did not go through the correct annealing process and eventually give out due to thermal properties and torsional loads from a running engine. In some cases, metal shavings can be spotted through oil changes apart from the vehicles poor performance issues.
After the repair was done on my vehicle, all associated codes and issues with the cars performance have disappeared. I strongly suggest to get the your car to a certified MB repair facility where they can properly diagnose your vehicle. It took weeks toying with the car from failed attempts after attempts before I took the plunge. The cost is expensive outside of the number of parts needed. If you have experience on engine repairs, the possibility of tackling on the work is within range as I did (that is, if your car is out of an extended warranty). It took me approximately three full weekends to get it done and some specialty tools were required.

newbieP0015

Repair shop is getting P0016 and P0017. They have changed the magnets and have checked to cam shaft positioning sensor. Still getting same codes, they have opened it up to look at the balance shaft and gears does this seem reasonable or they taking the warraty company for a ride?

Rfbarnes

Just did head gaskets on my s63 and it got that p00017 code how can I fix that didn't have any before we did head gaskets.

Glyn M Ruck

A P0017 on it's own is unusual. Cancel it & see if it comes back. If you have all 4 new magnets then watch out for P0016 & P0017 together.

It's a sure sign of balance shaft sprocket wear which I've personally never seen on an AMG.

https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...ssues-dtb.html

alchakra

HI Glyn, thank you for all the goor posts out here. DO you know how one can find the VIN range for the P0016 & P0017 defect?

marlin22

Hi Guys,

Brand new here, but have used this forum for many years to learn about MB. Many knowledgeable folks here and I hope you guys can lead me in the right direction.
So here is my issue, bought my wife a 2011 C300 4Matic, the CEL came on and I ran a diagnostic with my star and it threw back error:

1200 The position of the exhaust camshaft(cylinder bank 1)is implausible relative to the position of the camshaft

Engine number: 272948 31 734123, way higher number than the affected engines for gear failure???

I have searched and haven't found any information on this issue on later models and I found a Youtube video that showed how to visually check for balance shaft failure. My question is will this visual check also tell you about the dreaded idler gear failure or wear?

I have swapped the sensors from one side to the other but the code still shows up. I did the visual check to the pulse wheel inlets and they seem aligned properly? Below are the pictures of the pulse wheel inlets superimposed ovet the engine timing diagram.


Any ideas or thoughts on what this could be maybe magnets or is my idler gear worn??

Thanks in advance......

Glyn M Ruck

Replace the magnet on that cam. It will not be the balance shaft sprocket. They are not any longer sintered.

If magnet replacement does not fix it you might have a problem with that cam actuator itself.

Likely just the magnet though.

You need a 16 & 17 together for those concerned about sprocket wear on older engines.

marlin22

Thanks for the reply, just changed both on bank 1 and still getting code 1200. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated....

Glyn M Ruck

So you have effectively changed the hall effect sensor & magnet on that cam & still get a code?

If so & it's not spurious or wiring related you might have an issue with the physical actuator on the cam itself.







Good luck!