C230 Sport Coup

So, Ok, I know what y'all gonna say, no way.
But seriously I have 172K miles on my car, everything runs fine but I have a
leak on the 4th cylinder, coolant leaking from the side of the head.

Yeah, so I could do the whole head gasket thing...or is there any other options? There' so many products on the market that claim to fix head gasket leaks, I just have to wonder if one might be ok to use and seal my damn leak.
It's getting worse, and I have to put in 1/2 gallon of 50/50 coolant every thousand or so miles now, vs. like just once every 10K miles previously.

This is a common problem on M111 engines.
But with 172K on the car, I'd like to avoid having to tear the engine apart if possible.
Here's one product I was looking at....
http://www.steelseal.com/faq.asp

I know you guys will think I'm CRAZY for even considering this, but
my car without mods is probably worth about 3 grand with 172K miles.
It's 3 grand to have it done, and even DIY is likely to cost a grand..
and then...well, everything seems to be running fine...
but how long can the tranny go?
I plan to do a 2nd flush soon, but if I can't get this head gasket thing dealt
with it's like time and money down the drain.
Glyn? Help!

LILBENZ230

It's $3,000 to replace a head gasket on the car? Or am I reading something wrong?

C230 Sport Coup

About 3 grand to have it done.
Maybe 500-1000 to DIY depending on the "while yer in there" stuff.
I usually like to replace the water pump when doing the head especially with my engine at 172K miles.

I called the Steel Seal number on the website.
I got a guy who sounded like one of the Jerky Boys,
"We use it on race cars".
Yeah, well I asked some technical questions like,
'if it's "heat activated" whats gonna happen if the stuff gets into the exhaust?
I mean what about the Oxygen sensors, and catalytic converter?

He says " I don't know I just know how it works"
I asked well, when it seals is it silica? Is it a plastic of some sort?
It starts out as a green liquid with no particulates at all....
so, supposedly it hardens from heat...
uh. well the whole engine is hot, the radiator is hot, how can it not
harden throughout the engine and make a mess of things?

Again same answer "I don't know, I just know how it works"
Well, you don't seem know how it works.
When I call Redline and talk to someone in the tech department I
get knowledgeable people. This guy only "knows how it works".
But then he doesn't since he can't even tell me, when it seals what it's sealing with.

Here's how you DIY a M111 head gasket...oh joy.
http://www.kokes.net/slk/Engine_head...ead_remove.htm

And then all that newfound pressure from a proper seal will probably blow the rings.

SeaCoupe

Sorry about my phone issues. I don't know if it was you or me.

Yeah, that guy doesn't sound like he knows what he was doing.

I'm not a fan of putting anything into the motor oil. Particularly one that hardens.

Ed

splinter

Is your leak external, or from the cooling circuit into the combustion chamber(s)?
It’s far easier to temporarily seal a 20 psi/1.4 bar breach to atmospheric than BMEP.

During my ultra low dollar days, Bar’s Leaks products tided me over more than once until a proper repair could be carried out.
I’m with SeaCoupe, though, that potions and elixirs are never to be poured into the crankcase.

Their stuff works so well it’s even repackaged for use in GM’s service departments. Good luck.



http://www.barsproducts.com/barsleaks_products.htm

Glyn M Ruck

Todd. The fact that it is deteriorating is a worry. If you are going to sell the car I might resort to one of these Mickey Mouse fixes. I know this is an M111 problem & you know the right way to fix it. I don't have to tell you.

Putting crap in the coolant is not a good idea unless it's an ultra short fix before dumping the vehicle. Have you tried re-torquing the head?

anonymousmoose

I agree with that logic. Although I've always tried to think of the next owner [I'm just that kind of chap I feel guilty] who may buy something he wasn't aware of (unless its a pompous dealer your selling to). Last car I sold the chap said I was being too honest . He didn't buy it for another reason, but he told me I maybe shouldn't tell people that it did have a few dents which I had taken out (no crashes though).

Carsy

C 230,

I had an internal cylinder head leak in # 3 cylinder of my old Peugeot 504 @ 287,000 km. The green coolant could be seen through the plug hole when the engine was cold & the engine did miss when first started when cold ( plug fouling).

I added Wynns Stop leak & experienced no further symptoms . The car was sold to the Egyptians for spares at 450,000 km. The head was never removed.

http://www.wynns.net/product_files/P...8607%20PIS.pdf

However the coolant on this car was changed every 12 months since new & the Wynns Stop leak was added every 12 months as a precaution when the new coolant was added.

The only symptom I noticed was some black sludge like material in the overflow bottle which was cleaned out every 12 months.

This engine was a 1970's design with large jacket water pathways & the old large copper radiator core.

I do not know how modern engines handle these products .

If I was in your position I would research all the additive options as you are doing & try one.

I have heard that ChemiWeld is an option.
http://www.myshopping.com.au/ZM--121...SEAL_STOP_LEAK

and another...:-

http://www.barsleaks.com.au/bars4.html

If the leak is large then I do not think any product will be successful.

Carsy.

tommy

Ugh - good luck with that. On a funny related note, the google ad right above the "quick reply" box I'm typing in, of course , is a Steel Seal ad. No sh*t!

C230 Sport Coup

If you look at the link I posted for the person who did the gasket on an M111 (SLK)
you'll see the condition of his gasket is actually RUSTED!
OK, so I'm getting what seems to be mostly it's pushing coolant out
the side of the block. I don't seem to have coolant in the oil or vs. versa.
The leak is small but growing.
Every thousand or so + miles I need a quart or 2 of coolant.
Originally it was only like every 5 K miles.

This of course is a known issue on M111 and it's 6 cylinder cousin I think, the M104(?)
both leak from the rear corner of the head.

So point being I think retorquing might not do any good, or perhaps putting
additional pressure on a corroded gasket might simply accelerate the problem.
I did see that Pep Boys does have the 12 point bits I'd need to tighten the head though,
so maybe worth a try.

Problem is no money right now to do any of this....

My local friendly mechanic told me to just keep driving it till it fails, and so far that's been good advise, but starting to think about doing the job and accumulating the necessary items to do it.
I'm figuring on thermostat, water pump, gaskets, valves seals (Though the guy in the DIY I posted didn't do them).
I was figuring on having the valves lapped, and the head planed. Again Ben there didn't do the lapping.
Also those pesky seals in the spark plug area of the valve cover that leak and cause the plug
recesses to fill with oil.

Do I need all this? Or should I just pull it, have the head cleaned and planed
and slap it back together like Ben Kokes there.
He doesn't mention re torquing after the repair which is usually needed.

And OR Do I need to add anything I missed?
Oddly I was trying to see if I couldn't accumulate some parts in advance
and the dealers sell the gaskets and bits separately rather than a kit and wanted
something like $200 for a head gasket.
I'm sure it will be cheaper online and likely a kit is available.
But I was thinking free would be better with the $100 coupons, he.

The guy on the phone at Steel seal cracks me up.
We use it on race cars!!! Sounds just like the jerky boys.
I'm comin' down there monday with my f'ing tools!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXWo6jXmRO8

Glyn M Ruck

Todd. If cash is tight just stick some crap in the coolant for now. Just make sure whatever you use is easily flushed out of the system at the time you do a head job. You don't want anything that will clog up the heater core etc.

Remind that a$$hole that anything that is put in racing engines does not have to last very long before a teardown.

leeer73

I know some mechanics who swear by this product. Alot of times people come into their shops and find out that they have a blown head gasket and do no have enough money to fix it, it's thise times that 3 mechanics I personally know will actually use this product and they tell me that it works!

http://www.usasealants.com/products/...asket-sealant/

Javvy

will not work it clearly states only "for water cooled systems".........

if it is enternal than clean the area and try slopping some external high temp glue/sealant......you will not damage any thing and woun't contaminate the system. Fill in the crack........what is worse that could happen........

javvy

leeer73

So our engines aren't water cooled?

Javvy

No they are coolant cooled...........

javvy

leeer73

Lol. Okay I understand what you are saying, but I believe what the website is referring to is wether your car is air-cooled or water cooled. Our cars, even though they have coolant are considered to be water cooled.

C230 Sport Coup

Well I see these on the Bars site.
"Bars Stop Leak tablets"
Well, for now my car runs perfect.
So not going to fix what aint broke.
Most of the bars products seem to incorporate
particulates that will likely create as many problems as
they OR may not solve.

Funny thing is, right now would be a good time for me to get the Head gasket job done, have the time etc.
Soon I am quite certain I will once again be employed full time workaholic vs. current PT IT sysadmin ****** job
and will have no time, but then will have the money for the parts.
Also have a garage, and living with GF she'd have no problem driving me if I pay gas,
but she also drives me nuts listening to her
constant complaining,
so new job might equal new residence, no GF and no garage etc.
Ha, now thats she's featured on all 3900 + posts in my sig, she wants to know when
I'll have her on benzworld too.
Ahh...well, it is what it is.

OneOfaKindTrini

On the bright side atleast your not changing the head gasket on a subaru with a "sideways/flat" motor.

SeaCoupe

So what happened with this?

I got a leak at the water pump of coolant. It's really nothing right now, but I just got a fresh bout of diverticulitis which has me in some pain. From prior experience I am at least 3 weeks from being able to work on my car. I am on 4 a day Vicodin. I don't even trust my judgement at that level.

I have some confidence in Bars products. I used them successfully in the past. Alternatively I could get a Indy to do it. Is the m111 the type of engine where it is wise to also perform service on the alternator while at the water pump level?

If you want me out of your thread, I will start my own C230.

ncmudbug

+1
If it can get past your current financial situation where you can get it fixed or fix it correctly, this makes a lot of sense. Then in addition to everything else, have the radiator thoroughly cleaned at a radiator shop. My sense is that you really like your car and even at it's rather advanced age, it would make sense to spend the money to fix it - it's very likely cheaper than another car!

As for your valves - you might want to do a leak down test and see if your valves are leaking at all. After so many miles, I would think it's likely. Putting a head with a fresh valve job on a seasoned (well seasoned in your case ) bottom end will net you better performance than you had before.

As for using that stuff in race cars... you have wonder who builds their engines that they would need that stuff?

MBfinatic

If you want to sell it ill buy it for 3k!

edgarinho10

Did you ever get around to this?

C230 Sport Coup

206K miles, I just keep topping up the coolant occasionally.
Crossing my fingers.
At this point, pulling the head to replace the gasket seems
pointless. The whole engine would need rebuilding.
When and if she blows, I'll source a low mileage engine from a junkyard.
Just hoping she keeps going till they start showing up at the pick'n'pull.
I see engines online all the time for $500-1000.

skacl500

Blue Devil works!!! You will be amazed at how well...if you still have the car? Good Luck!

C230 Sport Coup

You tried it?
I still have not repaired this.