bobinyelm

I have a 2002 C320 Wagon...

Does anyone know what the proper distance is from the TOP of the oil siphon tube (formerly known as the oil dipstick tube) to the FULL oil line is for the C320 engine? in our W203 cars?

My new-to-me '02 C320 does not have a dipstick (of course) so I bought the proper dipstick listed for use in the M112 engine series, which is the designation for the E32 engine in my car.

The dipstick was listed for the ML 320 and E320 (which I guess come with a dipstick) and use the same engine.

Unfortunately, with my electronic gauge showing 1 quart low, the MB dipstick doesn't even REGISTER oil on the stick. Something is obviously lying to me!

The MB Part Number of the dipstick is A 1120100372, BTW.

The MB Electronic Parts Catalog can be accessed at:
http://www.everythingbenz.com/z/epc-...-info-diagrams
if anyone is interested. It has great diagrams, and only a few terms are only in Russian, with most i 4 languages.

The diagram at http://screencast.com/t/nhMiWwJDZ8i from the parts catalog shows both the dipstick and the alternate "plug" Americans get.

I haven not researched it, but the diagram appears to show the dipstick tube mounted in the CENTER of the engine, rather than at the rear as in our cars (unless the tube curves forward and actually enters the block in the center).

I have not had my car long enough to poke around enough to see.

Thanks,
Bob

splinter

The easiest and most accurate method to use is that which MB specifies for its workshop technicians.
Doing so eliminates all the variables that may otherwise affect a proper reading.

Any flexible rod will suffice, though I use MB’s 722.6 ATF dipstick with personalized markings.
Measurements listed are obtained via the extraction tube, up from the bottom of the sump.


2WD:




4WD:

bobinyelm

OK, If I read the chart correctly, for a 2WD, FULL is 171mm UP from the bottom of the bottom of the dipstick where it touches the bottom of the oil pan.

If the oil level is at 156mm from the bottom, it will require 1.1 liters of oil to bring the engine to FULL ?

I fed a 14ga wire down the dipstick tube, but it didn't seem to "bottom" solidly. It felt like it was glancing off of something, then possibly sliding along the bottom. I need something more "solid."

I added 1qt to my car, and the electronic reading went from "Add 1 QT" to "OK" so my electronic gauge is working, though I can't be sure it's correct.

I dipped the level w/ my MB dipstick (supposedly MADE for my car) and it STILL shows below the tip of the dipstick. The dipstick is made to sit permanently in the tube, replacing the "plug" and to act like any ordinary dipstick.

I will look for something stiff enough to see if it will "bottom" with authority, and use 171mm as FULL, and THEN check my dipstick against it.

Since it is the correct dipstick part # for the E32 engine in the W203 car, it SHOULD be right as well, assuming the top of the tube is the right height, and the dipstick is the proper length.

I assume there is no good reason not to leave the dipstick in the engine all of the time?

Thanks-
Bob

samaritrey

From my understanding there is no permeate dip stick for the w203 m112 engines. If you have a dipstick with a top maybe it is not the right one and that is why it does not hit oil. I doubt your oil level sensor is malfunctioning but if you don't trust it do an oil change and then you know.

bobinyelm

If you check the Part# A 1120100372 on Google, it says it's the proper dipstick for our 112 engines.

This link doesn't list the "C320," but supposedly, this is the dipstick installed in other markets (3rd World countries) where the electronic feature was not standard on base models. It DOES list the ML320, CLK320, and SLK320 for this part #

Maybe the US C320 has a different height dipstick tube so it only doesn't work in the US W203 C Class (since regular dipsticks measure from the top down)?
I don't know why it would work in the E320, the CLK320, and even the SLK320, but NOT in the C320, but Herr Benz works in strange ways at times.

1) http://www.joetlc.com/dipstick-merce...0-p-24130.html

When I get something solid enough to hit bottom with reliably, I will mark where the stick exits the tube, then measure down to the 171mm point (measured from the bottom) and the mystery should be solved.

I went out and ADDED a quart, and now the electronics says "OIL OK" so that's something, anyway. As you say, once I do the first oil change and add exactly 8.5 quarts, all will become obvious.

I guess I still prefer a dipstick (but then I prefer knobs on my radio as well).

Driving an MG-TF, you probably understand quite well (I had an MGTF-1500 at one point myself, and just last month sold my Morgan 4/4 after 16 years).

http://screencast.com/t/8CTFCroNeoH

Bob

splinter

Indeed.
MB installed the M112 into so many different chassis (and drivetrains) during the production run that there have literally been more than a dozen different oil pans fitted under its crankcase.
Good to see you’ve extinguished the ‘add oil’ admonition from the MFD.

Old school enough to disdain the W203’s oft-problematic electronic gadgets, I have, in fact, verified the aforementioned mechanical oil level technique and ‘dyno mode’ verification readings are remarkably accurate.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...oil-level.html

Any pictures of the MG-TF? :y

bobinyelm

Sure:

http://screencast.com/t/bPtCnDwpTG

http://screencast.com/t/p5WFi1txzp

If you're a Brit fan, perhaps you recognize this make and model:
http://screencast.com/t/OO8AheGtY

I just realized those pictures were taken by me exactly 41 years ago this month.
I apologize for the B&W photos, but I think I had just moved up from the tintype I'd been using until then.
OMG; where does the time go?

Bob
PS I was only 1qt low. I see the electronic will measure down to 2qts low before it starts flashing truly angry warnings at you.

samaritrey

Very nice pics. I need to take some better pics of mine. I also need to do some work on it before winter. It is having an electric issue that i need to take care of. It is one of the most scary cars ever to drive no brakes, Power or Steering and the trans feels like the one in my old tractor lol It is cool though and people my age really like it (BTW I am a young one 21)

bobinyelm

Electrics on Brit cars have always a problem. Lucas was always known as the "Prince of Darkness," and the only thing they ever made that didn't suck was their vacuum cleaners.

Being young, you don't remember that MGs were among the BEST handling and braking cars of that era when they were produced, which for you is probably hard to believe.

I had an MGA with Michelins that I could take almost anything in the 60s until the Porsche 911/912 and then the BMW 1600s and 2002. A stock MGA today is almost dangerous at speed despite (unvented) disc brakes and all of 75hp, but compared to my winter commuting car (a 1954 Chevy Belair) it was a Ferrari. When I replaced the Chevy w/ a '61 Beetle, it was like having a Porsche in comparison, even with swing axles in the back.

I once had a '58 Benz 180 (not bad), then a '67 fin-back (nice), and a '70 280SE (nirvana) which in comparison was a wonderful car I could live happily with today (except the A/C sucked).

I still really enjoy the basic "feel" of cars like the MGs and Triumphs, and the big Healey, but not at today's speeds. On country lanes in New England (where I grew up and drove these cars) they were perfect. In Texas where I now am, not so much.

You mention brakes-When I sold my TF-1500 I drove it from CT to FL to the new owner, and an idiot where I'd had it on consignment added US brake fluid to the master cylinder, which ruined the seals, so the only brakes I had were on pump, then the next back-up was shutting the engine off, and using the clutch in gear against engine compression (engine not turning) to stop the car, since the e-brake was so hard and glazed it was useless. I certainly would NOT do that on today's roads!

I see you had a Sammy. I built this one from two that had been rolled (what Sammy HADN'T been rolled?), with a new engine I assembled: http://screencast.com/t/8vNUuLJbciW

Well, I am probably using too much MB band width on non-MB cars, so I'll stop now.

Enjoy the TF. I know I would! I liked it better than I liked the Morgan, to be honest, but maybe it was I just enjoyed being younger IN the car.

That's probably reinforced by the fact I bought a Backdraft Cobra to re-light the fire (It feels and looks like my MGA on extreme steroids), and after 20 miles am bored by it. I never even titled or licensed it. http://screencast.com/t/LnBhJdEeol5 http://screencast.com/t/2zYYoJwwR It handles great (BMW M3 suspension) and goes fast (375hp in a 2400 pound car), but I have to admit I prefer motoring along in comfort in my boring SLK watching the countryside go by in relative silence.

Wanna' buy a Cobra w/ only 20mi on it?

Bob

samaritrey

Yeah the electrics are fun I have a list of three things that could be causing the issue so I need to just go check and fix it. My MG has a cool history It was bought by my great grand father for his daughter (my grandmother on my moms side) Then my grandfather on my dads side restored it. Then when my great grandfather died three years ago my grandmother passed it down because she never drove it. It sat for 10 + years so my grandfather got it going great again about a year ago. Sadly he died about 6 months ago and I never had him show me everything on it so it is a hard learning process. I know cars well but am scared to work on the MG because of how important it is to me.
I know it was good for its time but being use to new Mercedes and Porsches is my issue. Hell even my 80's diesel vanagon had great brakes. The car is parked at my moms house about an hour from where i live near DC. So anytime my dad harasses me about something I threaten to bring the MG into town and drive it to work. (where i live has horrible traffic and people that drive fing crazy and fast. He is scared when I drive my Mercedes around imagine how he freaks out thinking about me driving around in a MG death box.
Honestly I don't know if I will keep it forever I love it but I can't enjoy it where I live and it is so dangerous to drive I can't drive it to work and enjoy it. It is the only car that my grandfather restored that I will realistically ever have so it is special since he was a great mechanic but got rid of all his good cars a few years ago so what was left when he died were nothing I like. If I do sell it I would replace it with an slk55 amg You mentioned your slk I love them my father had a slk 55 when i got my license back in 06 and from 06-08 he had it and i drove it more then him lol. I drove it to school a bunch and when I had to drive to work on his investment houses almost every weekend I would get to drive it. Rain or shine or snow that top would be down.

bobinyelm

I don't know what you have for a workshop manual for your TF, but I have the official MGTD/TF manual actually published by BMC (British Motors Corp) that owned MG back in the 50's.

They're really easy to work on, though you'd need a set of Witworth wrenches and sockets not to bugger up the bolts and nuts.

I had a British Car restoration shop in WA State for 10 years, so I am petty familiar w/ the cars. If you don't have a good manual, maybe you'd be interested in an original. With new shoes, the TF brakes weren't nearly as dangerous as I hear you saying. Not GREAT, but not a death-box by any means.

PM me if you're interested.

Bob

GotDaBenz

I learned that MB says the dipstick is not to be left in the tube but used only to check oil level. In my searches I found this:

Assenmacher M0721 Mercedes Engine Oil Dipstick - available from SJ Discount Tools and Network Tool Warehouse for about $45. "Fits newer MB with engines 112,113, 137 and 271." (mfr's description)

Allrevup

Hello, Are the specs in this 2002 C320 2 WD wagon, engine oil sheet the same for a 2005 C320 sedan chasis no. 203.064 engine no.112.946 trasmission no. 722.118?

Is there a sheet like this for the transmission or just the ebay dip tool no. J2024-417659 I was toll that it was specific but it looks like all the others.

Thank You, for this great post!

Glyn M Ruck

Specs are same for 2002 to early 2005 C320.

If you want to make your own transmission dipstick.

Allrevup

Hello, Mr. Ruck

What a pleasant surprise to hear from you Sir, my first post none the less!

I have own this vehicles since Aug. '11 @68K. miles and the past 11 month and now with 79K. miles. I, am getting ready to perform an extensive "B" service, to include cooling system, thermostat , serpentine belt, engine oil & filter, auto transmission flush, TCM plug, air, cabin, fuel filters and rear end gear oil. Latter I, may even attend the brake fluid flush, spark plugs and cables and to address a right cylinder bank valve cover/vent oil weeping issue (I think?).

For several weeks I have immerse in your and other senior members many discussions, data contributions and stickies about correct parts, suppliers, maintenance and fluids in particular in this and other MB forums. To me is great reading and a "crash coarse" that will save me a lot of trail and errors.

You images above are the ones I was referring too. I have order what I believe to be, the correct after market tools; #120 589 07 21 00 =engine oil & J2024-417659 =ATF from KTC tool on ebay. I just like the idea of the exact conversion chart above for the ATF as well. As a preventing F.I. system measure, per your advice I, have being running "Chevron Techron, Concentrate PLUS" every 3000 miles- One 20oz./20 US gal. for the past 9K. miles.

Thank You, for your pront reply.

hanknum

Something seems wrong with the above chart...if 171mm is the correct height on the dipstick, that converts to almost 7 inches. I've never seen that high of a level on a dipstick. That is one deep oil pan.

Allrevup

Today I received my Engine flat blade with 850mm marking and the VOLUTE tip & the ATF steel cable with the black plastic end 25C. & 80C., measuring tools, and now I join the ranks of perplex people!

With the car level and having sat over night and a ambient temperature around 25*C. /*81*F. The engine dip-stick tool would only go 51.5-520mm./20.5" down to the top of the tube I tried turning it and pushing gently & firmly and it did not indicate having reach the engine oil = so NO oil mark to measure? following this the FSS indicated "OK" !

The ATF 1150mm. long tool was difficult to push down the tube, and when I retrieve it to look at the reading, several times it was difficult to get an accurate and consistent measurement/reading as the rather thin & flexy plastic end was bending I could not tell when I had just reach the bottom of the sump/pam, that was with a cool car @ 25*C./81*F. temperature. Latter after a spirited 20 miles drive measurement and provably at 80*C./175*F. the plastic tip was like spaghetti. I was never sure when it was hitting the button of the pan/sump bottom, no sound. I try not to push it so hard that it would deform but you really can not tell for sure as I had to push hard to get it around the tube curvatures.

I thought to try and determine the engine tube depth using the round and more flexible steel cable ATF dip stick tool and indid it went further down the tube, to about 71-72cm./27-28 3/8" (+/- 2cm. that flexible tip again) at the top of the tube. The surprising thing is that indicates oil level at 190mm. and way "over fill" ???
If I reacall correctly, I learn here that my "05 C320 "FSS" only indicates when the engine oil is "LOW" unlike the previous "DAS" that would also indicate actual oil level or "over filled" in qt's./liters.

I purchase the car with 68K. the last MB dealer "A" service @61,989 - 9-qt. Mobil-1 according to "the invoice" then at 70,500. I had the oil & filter change with a Mann fleece filter & Mobil-1 0W-40 European oil. I did not have a dip stick tool, so we measure what was removed about 7.5 qt. + the wet filter content, and used the owner manual specs capacity 7.5L./7.9qt. MAX., and added 8qts. and the FSS indicator said engine level was "OK", then the next day after a short spirited driving the FSS said that it was "LOW" so they added 1/3 qt. and after a 3 mile drive and 15 min. wait, I check it again with the FSS it said oil "LOW" and added another 1/3 qt. for a total of 8 2/3 qts. and in the past 10 month and 8,500 miles there have not being any warnings (Now I Think, maybe the valve cover vent oil weeping!) I do check it with FSS and under the hood ones a week or so.

The "Home Made" 1/4" steel or bicycle cable universal tool Idea with markings for engine oil and ATF, is looking more BRILLIANT tonight!

Glyn M Ruck

This is not conventional dip stick measuring. This is measuring from the bottom of the pan up. Not from the top of the DS tube down!

hanknum

Are you saying that the 171mm is from the tip of the dipstick to the oil level mark on the dipstick?

Glyn M Ruck

Yes!

Allrevup

Mr. Ruck. Correct, Yes I understand that, but I can not be sure when I have reach the bottom and the readings I am getting are inconsistent, its hard for me to believe that they are accurate. Specially the transmission ATF level measurement, as that plastic end deflect too much, were 10mm is the difference between low or full in either range.

I think that the ATF tool you show in your post photo, with the thicker coil steel wire, the added metal tip into the the wire end and the black rubber/plastic reenforsment is a better dessing it looks flexible enough yet I do not belive it deflecks of the bottom of the pan as I think mine does

hanknum

That IS the conventional way to measure AFAIK. I still find it hard to believe that it should be at 171mm (6.73 inches) from the tip. I've never seen an engine that would read that high on the dipstick.

Allrevup

addendum to my prior posts:

I tried a few more times and finally was able to insert the engine oil dip stick/rod tool all the way IN, I heard a click ! is about 740mm to the top of the tube.

As for the ATF dip stick/rod tool, I just remove the flexible black plastic tip and measure the ATF marking on the cable, maybe I'll insert some wire or a plastic zip tie, put the brake bleeder at the end and I'll dip dip it in 2 different colors of liquid rubber.

That is $28.00 x-engine tool+$18.00 x-ATF tool+$5.00 S./H.= $51.00 for nice red handles. A, 48" length of Monster cycling cable, any color of my choice for about $4.00 or a clear hard plastic tube for even less, would have done just fine and mush easier to stach away under the hood or lose! their cost is the same as 5 liters of Titan spec 4134 or 325 miles of driving !...LOL

Thanks for your replys, Sir!

Glyn M Ruck

No ~ conventional dipsticks do not go to the bottom of the sump. They only protrude into the oil they are measuring deep enough for a low & high mark. They are restrained by a collar on their shank that prevents them from going any further down the dipstick tube. They are measuring from the top of the dipstick tube to the fluid level effectively.

Glyn M Ruck

The top dipstick in my pic is made with electrical shrink that tightens over the snake when you heat it.