webbersworld

Well I've searched the forum and havent really found what I was looking for so I decided to post.

I'd like to improve the sound quality in my coupe. I'm not interested in 12'' subs and all that kinda crap, I just want the sound to be more crisp and clear. I wouldnt mind having it a bit louder, but mainly want to upgrade for clarity. I was thinking of just changing the speakers, not even adding an amp. My question is, would I need to change the head unit or no? I prefer to keep it the way it is, I like having the stock look.

Thanks
Ben

peet

I'm feeling generous (no car to drive) so here goes.

Depends on what you have now. If bose, forget speakers, not going to happen. About the only thing you can do is get an Infinity or Bazooka powered sub and feed it off the trunk. Otherwise, it's an amp, a box and custom install work.

If you have standard audio, good news, you can replace speakers. Depending on your budget something like Dynaudio, a/d/s, or MB Quart would rule. You'd need an amp though. High quality speakers want high quality input.

If you want an in-dash CD, get an Audio 10. It'll improve the sound a tad and give you the benefit of indash cd.

If you want to feed external input (like an MP3 player), get your Cassette head modified (search forum). This creates an aux in jack that simply sounds great - given the other components anyhow.

Finally, if you're made of money, spend the $1500 on a Comand. It'll give you in dash cd, nav and aux in.

Peet

KompMan420

I'm afraid I disagree with peet here. If you want more clarity then replace the head unit with something aftermarket with a high signal to noise ratio. You said you wanted to stay stock so get an amp with a high signal to noise ratio. Speaker interpret what they are fed for the most part. I didn't replace my factory non-bose speakers, but I did replace the head unit and add an amp/sub combo. I'm not running an amp to my other speakers and the sound is awesome. In my opinion, your best bet if you have a non-bose system is to get a nice aftermarket amp to run your mids and highs.

webbersworld

Yea I do not have the Bose upgrade.

Like I said I definitely do not want to change the head unit.
I don't really understand, even if I get top of the line speakers to replace the **** thats in our cars now, it wouldnt improve the sound??

And also, can I get an amp without changing the headunit, because if that is the case, then I'd get an amp.
Definitely dont want to change the head unit at all though.

Harris

Every system starts from the headunit. You will never get the results that you want if you dont change the HU. Adding a sub doesnt necessarily means crap, really depends on what sub you're adding!!

My suggestion is: change the HU and speakers, add a 4-channel amp (4x50 will be fine). If you want really clear and crisp sound, Focal and MB Quart speakers are your choices.

session

The audio 30 headunit simply does not produce high quality sound. If you don't have a high quality source for the sound, it doesn't matter what you have to amplify it or to broadcast it.

Harris

Changing the speakers alone will get you nowhere because there is no power to push it. Changing the amp alone will not get you anywhere either because the stock speakers cannot handle the power from the amp. If you DEFINITELY dont want to change the HU, you HAVE to change the speakers and add an amp. If you only do one of the two, it will be a waste of money.

peet

I ruled out aftermarket heads. I personally don't like the look. Unfortunately car makers these days saw to it that only stock stuff looks good (bastages).

They're all coorect though, you want sound - start HU.

BUT, and this is a weird exception, if you're going to pitch the Audio 30 cassette anyhow, try the input trick. You'll be shocked at how much better it sounds.

My personal theory on this is that the pre-amp stage that is normally fed by the cassette head, has a lower normal input level. When you feed it a headphone level it's clearer, fuller and quite frankly amazing. Even considering that I was feeding mine MP3s.

Ultimately, if you just replace the head, you're left with what? pencil-erase sized magnets driving paper cones wrapped in undersized wire baskets.

Car audio - as with many things - is a three sided affair:

Quality, Price, Speed (or in this case ease) -- pick 2 (can't have all 3)

P

KompMan420

If you got new speakers you would notice a difference, yes. But you will notice more if you do an amp and the most with doing both (assuming no head unit change).

In order of noticablity:
Head unit - This is where it all starts. Cleans the signal and boosts the power.
Amp - Also cleans the signal and boosts the power.
Speakers - Interprets the sound fed to it. If you have more power running to your speakers and you don't replace them then you are not getting your full potential, but it will still sound better than just replacing the speakers.

Quote from Crutchfield - "A car amp gives your music more clarity and detail at any volume level. The extra juice provides more impact -- and the power to overcome road noise, even with the windows down."

Get an amp. If you're still not satisfied get new front speakers for the doors. If still not, get rears for the door. If more bass is what you want, get a sub/amp. All of this CAN be done to your factory head unit.

KompMan420

I replaced my head unit and the factory speakers sound a hell of a lot better. Granted the system would really sound good with new speakers that are meant for the power I'm sending, but it is a night and day difference.

Matt_NH

I agree with CompMan, If a HU is out add an amp try it then add speakers.
I don’t think that the audio 30 sound is bad it just has no power.
I just put an Alpine IVA-D900 in my car and the system sounds so much better (looks better too).
Today I was driving along at 80 with the windows down and could hear the stereo clearly. The stock speakers aren’t that bad I’ll replace them at some point but want to add an amp and sub next to get the frequencies that the 6 ½’s can’t put out.

KompMan420

My Alpine:

webbersworld

thanks to all you guys for your help!

I am going to Circuit City tonight to check out speakers and amps. Any suggestions? Like I said, sound quality is my biggest priority. I was told to check out the Alpine speakers. Also, can anyone tell me the sizes of all the speakers?

Thanks again y'all.


-Ben

KompMan420

Alpine does make very good amps and speakers. Also look at Eclipse speakers.

Here's a lil bit to think about when you make your decision:

Most important is signal to noise ratio. Measured in decibels (dB), this spec compares the strength of the desired signal (music) to the level of background noise. A higher value indicates less background noise.

Another important spec is Total Harmonic Distortion (THD). This is the amount of change in harmonic content of the signal as it is amplified. A lower figure indicates less change and a more accurate amp. THD below 0.10% is inaudible.

RMS Power vs. Peak Power:
The amount of continuous power, measured in watts, that an amplifier produces is called RMS power. The higher the RMS figure, the louder and cleaner your music sounds. This power rating is what you should pay most attention to.

Also, keep in mind that some manufacturers calculate the RMS power ratings of their amplifiers at different input voltages. For example, an amplifier rated at 100 watts RMS at 12 volts can produce considerably more power than an amp rated at 100 watts RMS at the more typical 14.4 volts.

Stereo manufacturers often display peak power ratings on the face of their products. The peak power rating tells you the maximum wattage an amplifier can deliver as a brief burst during a musical peak, like a dramatic drum accent. The RMS figure is more significant. DON'T BE FOOLED BY A HIGH PEAK POWER RATING!

Since you are only going to be using this amp for your mids and highs make sure you check for built-in crossovers. Built-in crossovers are often used to keep high-frequencies from reaching a subwoofer, a low-pass crossover allows only frequencies below the crossover point to be amplified. A high-pass crossover allows only frequencies above the crossover point to be amplified — useful for keeping low bass away from small speakers, so they can play more efficiently. Crossovers are usually listed as variable or selectable. Continuously Variable means the crossover can be freely adjusted to any frequency between the listed end points. Selectable means that you can choose from several preset crossover points. This is important so that you don't send your low bass signals to a speaker that isn't meant to handle it and vice versus.

As for the speakers, I believe they are all 6 1/2 except for the tweeters obviously. I've got a 2002 C-Coupe so don't quote me on that, but it stands to reason that MB would continue to use the same sizes. Make sure if you get speakers and an amp that you match them as far as power and impedence are concerned.

This should be enough to get you started. If you have anymore questions you know where to find us. Good luck and post pics when it's done.

c230 sport

Gotta try MB Quart speakers before you buy anything else.

tsberkey

All right, now I'll throw another wrinkle in here. Just like webbersworld, I cannot replace the HU at this time. I want to keep the MB "look" and I simply cannot afford to pick up an Audio 10 @ $600, or whatever it is they are charging. Also, I do not trust ANYTHING purchased second-hand, unless it comes from God or his right hand man, Steve (MBenzNL).

I went to Circuit City to see about an amp and new speakers, just like webbersworld is going to do. The salesman went to his book, looked up my car (2003 C230K), and said because of the fibre-optics in this system, there was nothing they could sell me, unless I wanted to replace EVERYTHING from the HU back!!! I assumed he knew what he was talking about, as I had only had my car for about two weeks and had no reason to doubt him. Was this guy a complete idiot, or is there some merit to what he said? I can't believe he (or any other salesman) would send a customer out the door if it weren't true, but...

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanx.

Tim

amdeutsch

I think Steve sells them for about $225 + ship. Also it might be a little higher now because of the Dollar - Euro relationship. Ask him.

Harris

Apparently not. Fibre-optic cables only exist on Bose equipped MBs. If your car doesnt have Bose upgrade, you do not have fibre optics.

You can add anything you want to the basic stock system. My conspiracy theory is he wants you to change everything instead of sending you out the door.

tsberkey

Thanks for the quick response, guys. I will take both suggestions and see where that leads me.

Tim

R4ND0M_AX3

A non-BOSE system can still have fiber optics if a MB CD changer, Tele-aid, or Cell phone w/ or w/o VCS is installed.

Harris

Yes, but the question is whether he can add an amp to a non-Bose HU.

tsberkey

I do have the cd-changer installed. Does that mean I won't be able to add the amp and speakers or is this a non-issue?

Harris

No, they are two separate things. The fibre optic from the CD changer has nothing to do with adding the amp to the HU. As long as your HU is NOT Bose, you will be ok.

tsberkey

Thanks, Harris. I'm going shopping tomorrow.

Tim

R4ND0M_AX3

Adding an amp to a non-BOSE system isn't a problem. The existing copper wire speaker outputs from the HU will go to high level inputs on an amp and then from the amp to the speakers and optionally a sub.