2002 vs. 2004 C230 Coupe - PLEASE HELP ME CHOOSE!!

[DnBDJ]

How do the 2.3L and the 1.8L engines compare in quality/breakdown likelihood//zippiness - nimbleness/cost to maintain/fuel consumption? Are there other differences between the 2002 and the 2004 vehicles? I'm considering buying an '02 with 78K miles, asking price $9000 privately, and an '04 with 57K asking price $13,0000 from a small dealership. What's the better buy? Why? Thanks in advance for your knowledge on the subject!

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[jcnash]

Whoa..those prices seem a little high, Usually 02 coupes are in the $5000 range, but 78K is relatively low mileage.Still dont think its worth the $4k increase from average prices. 04 with 57k miles for 13k also sounds a couple grand too expensive. Do some research on autotrader etc. to see what prices these sell for in your area.

As for your actual question, I would go for an 02 coupe hands down. It was the last year of the M111 engine which has been in other MB models since the late 90's. So it has been refined through the years, and is bulletproof in the 02 coupe. There are a few minor issues, but the 04 coupe had the newer M271 engine which IMHO has quite a few issues.

Also, the 02 and 04 have the pre-facelift interior/exterior, so no difference there. Now if you were able to get your hands on an 05, thats a whole different story because quite a few things were changed (made better) in 05, so then the 05 would win. Anyway, between an 02 and 04, the 02 is a better choice according to me.

The only major issue the 02 coupes have is the coolant leaking into the engine oil via a harness. Read up about it on the forum, and make sure the particular car youre planning to buy doesnt have this issue. The thread discussing this issue will tell you what to look for.

Good luck.

[Peydidy]

Originally Posted by DnBDJ

How do the 2.3L and the 1.8L engines compare in quality/breakdown likelihood//zippiness - nimbleness/cost to maintain/fuel consumption?

Are there other differences between the 2002 and the 2004 vehicles?

I'm considering buying an '02 with 78K miles, asking price $9000 privately, and an
'04 with 57K asking price $13,0000 from a small dealership.

What's the better buy? Why? Thanks in advance for your knowledge on the subject!

I actually have both engines. I have the m111 in my 2002 c230 coupe and the m271 in my 2005 c230 sedan. In my opinion I like the m271 the most. The sound the engine makes just sound more sporty and powerful compared to the m111's loud and lawn mowing sound.I feel like I can defiantly push my sedan a lot farther and harder rather then the coupe. The coupe feels like it has more power just not nearly as much zippiness nor handling power or fast pick up. As for fuel goes I get about 33mph on the freeway and 21mph city in my sedan (I am usually trying to race everyone I see and taking off fast in the city, I am a very gas waisting city driver but the car can easily get way better city millage) and the coupe I get about 28 high way and 24 or so city (Im not sure about my city milage to much because I mostly drive the coupe on the high way). As for engine reliability in my 2 1/2 years of owning the coupe I have never hit any sort of mechanical issue and according to the car fax neither did the previous owner other then recalls (knock on wood it stays like that). Today will be exactly one week that I have owned the coupe and it has gone great so far and I hope no issues come up but when I talked to the previous owner it seemed like there wasn't to many issues with it (knock on wood no issues do come up with it in the future). I would say m271 beats m111 in my opinion but others may think different. good luck!

[Peydidy]

Originally Posted by jcnash

Whoa..those prices seem a little high, Usually 02 coupes are in the $5000 range, but 78K is relatively low mileage.Still dont think its worth the $4k increase from average prices. 04 with 57k miles for 13k also sounds a couple grand too expensive. Do some research on autotrader etc. to see what prices these sell for in your area.

As for your actual question, I would go for an 02 coupe hands down. It was the last year of the M111 engine which has been in other MB models since the late 90's. So it has been refined through the years, and is bulletproof in the 02 coupe. There are a few minor issues, but the 04 coupe had the newer M271 engine which IMHO has quite a few issues.

Also, the 02 and 04 have the pre-facelift interior/exterior, so no difference there. Now if you were able to get your hands on an 05, thats a whole different story because quite a few things were changed (made better) in 05, so then the 05 would win. Anyway, between an 02 and 04, the 02 is a better choice according to me.

The only major issue the 02 coupes have is the coolant leaking into the engine oil via a harness. Read up about it on the forum, and make sure the particular car youre planning to buy doesnt have this issue. The thread discussing this issue will tell you what to look for.

Good luck.

I didn't even notice how high the prices were. Defiantly don't pay 9k especially to a private party, thats even to much for a dealer. I got my coupe last week for $5200 and it had 93k miles on on it. Plus it had seat heaters and panoramic moon roof and lots of extras. Also it was dropped and had some aftermarket wheels on it. 9K is almost double what you should be paying for it. The 04 seems a little pricey too in my opinon

[C230 Sport Coup]

Dude you're combining 2 issues.
1. Oil leaking into the wiring harness from the cam sensor, which is
a service campaign, ie free. ANd
2. The dreaded Valeo radiator that was used on MANY MANY models, and configurations, not just the coupe.
That one you need to look for at the time of sale.
See the Tech Bulletin sticky on this forum.

Originally Posted by jcnash

As for your actual question, I would go for an 02 coupe hands down. It was the last year of the M111 engine which has been in other MB models since the late 90's. So it has been refined through the years, and is bulletproof in the 02 coupe. There are a few minor issues, but the 04 coupe had the newer M271 engine which IMHO has quite a few issues.

Also, the 02 and 04 have the pre-facelift interior/exterior, so no difference there. Now if you were able to get your hands on an 05, thats a whole different story because quite a few things were changed (made better) in 05, so then the 05 would win. Anyway, between an 02 and 04, the 02 is a better choice according to me.

The only major issue the 02 coupes have is the coolant leaking into the engine oil via a harness. Read up about it on the forum, and make sure the particular car youre planning to buy doesnt have this issue. The thread discussing this issue will tell you what to look for.

Good luck.

[jcnash]

Originally Posted by C230 Sport Coup

Dude you're combining 2 issues.
1. Oil leaking into the wiring harness from the cam sensor, which is
a service campaign, ie free. ANd
2. The dreaded Valeo radiator that was used on MANY MANY models, and configurations, not just the coupe.
That one you need to look for at the time of sale.
See the Tech Bulletin sticky on this forum.

Yup...agreed.

Im going to attribute that brain fart to posting on the forum at 3am

[cellphnebooster]

go for 2004 model

[malahhaor]

I would go for 02. Although on paper they almost have same power, 2002 has more tourq at lower rpm and at lower psi. With a crank pulley you'll get power of a 320.
And as mentioned, it has been arround for a while and was a solid engine.

[LILBENZ230]

The head issues on some early M271s was not ironed out until the 2005 model year. The 2005 M271s are as solidly reliable as any other W203 was or is. So I'd have to skip the 04.

Also, the prices are way high on both as everyone else has already said.

[C230 Sport Coup]

The 271 with it single row timing chain, the chain stretches, so don't know how they ironed that out. Thanks Chrysler.

I've seen a couple posts around here even from people with 2005's who still were having problems, so can't help but wonder if the so called head redesign is just more Mercedes bullsh*t.
So either go for any year C320 coupe if you can find it, but that means more maint costs, 12 spark plugs + coils and wires, and 2 cats to replace.

So, while I may seem biased, to me the 2002 just makes more sense IF the
cam sensor issue is resolved, no oil in the engine harness, no oil in the tranny harness, and no Valeo radiator.
Then I'd say OK. The engine itself is pretty bulletproof, with over 20 years of incremental enhancements built in.

Originally Posted by LILBENZ230

The head issues on some early M271s was not ironed out until the 2005 model year. The 2005 M271s are as solidly reliable as any other W203 was or is. So I'd have to skip the 04.

Also, the prices are way high on both as everyone else has already said.

[DnBDJ]

Thank you, everyone! I test drove the 2002 today. I couldn't see any mark for the radiator to tell me if it was Valeo but I failed to look at the far backside of it. It drove well, but it did make a really different sound from the 2005 C230 Kompressor Sedan I'm currently cruising - more grumbling, plus a loud sound when I stepped on the gas. Idling it also sounded louder. It was hard to know if these noises were normal or a sign of something wrong.

Regarding:
"...the 2002 just makes more sense IF the
cam sensor issue is resolved, no oil in the engine harness, no oil in the tranny harness, and no Valeo radiator."

How can I tell if these problems exist? I imagine I need to take it to a mechanic?

ALSO, are the parts more expensive/harder to find for the M111 or the M271?

THANKS!!!

[MW_ATL]

Between the two, I would think color and options might be the bigger issues. I like my 2002, and the m111. However, I do have almost all of the options on the car and still find it compares favorably to newer vehicles friends have.

[CaliC23k]

M111, hands down. Having had both an 02 M111 and an 03 m271, I love the m111. The downsides to it, for me, are that the M111 is a cast iron block so the weight balance is more to the front and it gets a little worse MPG. The downsides to the M271, however, are too many to list. Personally, i will never buy another Merc with a 271. Mine had the oil in the harness issue, it has no guts at all (although i will admit it makes a pretty noise while going nowhere fast) and it broke down constantly. It even cracked a cyclinder head at one point. This is just my personal opinion (bracing for the m271 fanboy backlash, lol) but i think it is a total crap engine. My 111 on the other hand has never let me down, and I love it to death. Also, are they both auto?

[DnBDJ]

Hi guys,

Yes, they are both automatic.

Are the parts more expensive/harder to find for the M111?

If it does have the Valeo radiator, is that a dealbreaker? Should I not buy it if it has it?

Thanks!!!

[wodturner]

I just got an 2004 c230 coupe last week. My first MB I paid 12000 for it and it only has 44k on it. I think(hope) I found something special. I just gave my Audi A4 to my daughter with 200k on it. I am hoping for the same.

Good Luck
Bob

[DnBDJ]

Dudes, if the '02 does have the Valeo radiator, should I not buy the car?

Any more views on M111 vs M271?

[malahhaor]

Originally Posted by DnBDJ

Dudes, if the '02 does have the Valeo radiator, should I not buy the car?

Any more views on M111 vs M271?

Small price to pay. I would rather have m111 and change the radiator.
Better yet, as mentioned, see if you can find c320, more power and more potential in upgrades. In any case I'd make sure to get it in manual, way more fun on any c class.

[LILBENZ230]

Originally Posted by C230 Sport Coup

The 271 with it single row timing chain, the chain stretches, so don't know how they ironed that out. Thanks Chrysler.

I've seen a couple posts around here even from people with 2005's who still were having problems, so can't help but wonder if the so called head redesign is just more Mercedes bullsh*t.

The single gang chain could be better but failure rates are very low. The 2005s that have the problem on the forum are always the low mileage, driven like a grandma car. It's no secret that the M271 needs to be wrung out from time to time. I don't see that Chrysler had anything at all to do with the M271 development whatsoever, but I'd like to know the official information.

[C230 Sport Coup]

Irregardless of head design, one of the primary problems with the 271 is that the chain stretches and causes a multitude of problems.
Assuming the head issues is actually resolved, changing the chain every 60K miles might avoid issues with the chain stretching, jumping teeth, and causing the valves to deform.
111 double row chain, lasts forever.
As to Chryslers involvement, it's just that it was around that time, it seems like, the Mercedes took a turn from the "best engineered cars in the world" to the best italian cars in the world.
Meaning, poorly designed, and not caring about the long run, but sexy in the short run.
Sad but true, every engine since then has had serious flaws. Balance shaft gears etc.
6.3L has issues with soft cams...etc.

Originally Posted by LILBENZ230

The single gang chain could be better but failure rates are very low. The 2005s that have the problem on the forum are always the low mileage, driven like a grandma car. It's no secret that the M271 needs to be wrung out from time to time. I don't see that Chrysler had anything at all to do with the M271 development whatsoever, but I'd like to know the official information.

[C230 Sport Coup]

BTW- If it has a 6 speed this doesn't matter!!!!

Any dealer should be able to give you a run down of any and all repairs made
on the vehicle at the dealer.
Not likely it will have the valeo, but there are recent threads with pics of both, that should allow you to identify it.
IF it has it the thing to do would be analyze the tranny fluid, make sure there's not water/glycol in the tranny fluid.

As far as the noise and stuff, yeah that's pretty normal.
M111 is kinda rude 'n crude sounding with the hood open.
When you 1st start, it sounds like crap as it's heating the catalytic and then some valve opens 30-60 seconds in and they it calms down.
The exhaust sounds like a lawn mower, and finding a replacement muffer is difficult due to small space, it's a weird design (or just plain expensive 800-1000!), though you can occasionally find a used Remus on the forum for around 300.
I did.

Originally Posted by DnBDJ

Dudes, if the '02 does have the Valeo radiator, should I not buy the car?

Any more views on M111 vs M271?

[C230 Sport Coup]

Oh, OK auto.
Parts for M111? What parts?
Haven't needed any!
Except oil, and oil and filters, and one hose.
No, not more expensive or hard to find.

There is one Achilles heel on the M111 is that the head gasket can leak around the #4 cylinder
and eventually requires replacement, but this usually doesn't happen till around 150K-200K miles.
Mine is leaking but per my mechanic, I just keep driving it, and putting a little coolant in now and then. Make sure there's no 'mayo' on the oil cap.
So far so good, I put a quart of 50/50 Xerex in every 1K miles or so.
http://www.kokes.net/slk/Engine_head...ead_remove.htm

Originally Posted by DnBDJ

Hi guys,

Yes, they are both automatic.

Are the parts more expensive/harder to find for the M111?

If it does have the Valeo radiator, is that a dealbreaker? Should I not buy it if it has it?

Thanks!!!

[LILBENZ230]

I'd certainly skip the M271 in the 03-04 years. If I were inclined to buy anything pre-facelift, I'd do the M111 over the M271.. which is the issue at hand. But 2005+ is fine and that's all I was trying to get across. We have numerous high mileage 05 M271s here (mine at 131k, Scotts at 203k, e24kgold last report 177k, polar at 170k), all fine.

Chrysler didn't do the developing on Mercedes cars, it was more Chrysler used Mercedes parts.. So you can't blame them for anything wayward on Benz. The early 203s were so problematic because Mercedes saw fit not to real world endurance test them.. stuff like that can't be blamed on Chrysler. The M271 is not related to Chrysler, either.. I believe Glyn was able to explain that sufficiently when someone brought up it was possibly related to a 1.8L Mitsubishi engine.

[C230 Sport Coup]

That's really good to know.
The better mileage would be nice right now, and certainly the M271 excels in that. And I love the facelifted look. Ha, I spent enough trying to emulate it.
A 2005 M271 MANUAL 6 speed would be pretty good.
A manual would be better to keep it in the power range which is narrower than the
M111. The auto was shifting constantly to stay in the power band on hwy 17, which is a mountain freeway between sillycon valley and the ocean, ie Santa Cruz.

The M111 hits peak torque at like 2000 rpm, whereas the M271 it's like 4K.
Power really come in at around 4500 on the 271, but you guys know better eh?

I had a lot of loaners with M271. So I got a pretty good feel for it.
2005 is the way to go if not 2002. C320 coupe with 5 speed, probably ultimate coupe, but
impossible to find.

Originally Posted by LILBENZ230

I'd certainly skip the M271 in the 03-04 years. If I were inclined to buy anything pre-facelift, I'd do the M111 over the M271.. which is the issue at hand. But 2005+ is fine and that's all I was trying to get across. We have numerous high mileage 05 M271s here (mine at 131k, Scotts at 203k, e24kgold last report 177k, polar at 170k), all fine.

Chrysler didn't do the developing on Mercedes cars, it was more Chrysler used Mercedes parts.. So you can't blame them for anything wayward on Benz. The early 203s were so problematic because Mercedes saw fit not to real world endurance test them.. stuff like that can't be blamed on Chrysler. The M271 is not related to Chrysler, either.. I believe Glyn was able to explain that sufficiently when someone brought up it was possibly related to a 1.8L Mitsubishi engine.

[tommy]

You pick your poison - the 04 has an anemic girl man engine surrounded by parts that will generally be ok, the 02 has an uncivilized fun engine surrounded by ticking time bombs everywhere else
If you were a friend, I'd steer you away from buying either, honestly.

[Midnight Koop]

Originally Posted by tommy

You pick your poison - the 04 has an anemic girl man engine surrounded by parts that will generally be ok, the 02 has an uncivilized fun engine surrounded by ticking time bombs everywhere else
If you were a friend, I'd steer you away from buying either, honestly.

+1