Needs new engine...wow

[Hogger]

LOL. Here is how I delt with it. Chain Replacement. It's been fun, stressful, learning experience, and nerve wracking. I'm almost done. Hoping to have it started in the next day or two. I just hope I don't need a new engine after I'm all done.

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[Dune]

I have a 05 C230 that I will need to change the engine, is it true that is a 10 hour job to do an engine swap?

I am planning on changing the engine myself, is there a step by step plan available detailing the engine swap? Also what type of programming will need to take place once the new engine is installed, or any other concerns I should be worried about.

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by Dune

I have a 05 C230 that I will need to change the engine, is it true that is a 10 hour job to do an engine swap?

I am planning on changing the engine myself, is there a step by step plan available detailing the engine swap? Also what type of programming will need to take place once the new engine is installed, or any other concerns I should be worried about.

My indy did the swap in 10 hrs, no programming needed since the engine is the same and the ECU is reused.

The engine can be pulled straight up, you don't even have to remove the hood or radiator. As for step-by-step, if you need that this probably isn't the DIY for you. I'd start with draining all fluids, disconnecting all electrical and vacuum, disconnect intake and exhaust manifolds, disconnect AC and PS, disconnect the trans and it should be free. Then swap over the starter, alternator, ... to the new engine.

[Dune]

Thanks, I have done many engine swaps on Chevy Race cars, I am familiar with the basic to do list, was just curious if there were any secret aspects to changing this engine. It is nice to know no programming is needed, pretty much disconnect the peripheral items, remove/replace and then hook everything back up.

I have the prospects of purchasing a used engine, what would you recommend replacing before I install, ie timing chain, etc?

[C230 Sport Coup]

OOh, holy crap! Look on the left cam how the chain is bunched up!!!! Damn! And the engine looks clean even!

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by Dune

Thanks, I have done many engine swaps on Chevy Race cars, I am familiar with the basic to do list, was just curious if there were any secret aspects to changing this engine. It is nice to know no programming is needed, pretty much disconnect the peripheral items, remove/replace and then hook everything back up.

I have the prospects of purchasing a used engine, what would you recommend replacing before I install, ie timing chain, etc?

If you've done an engine swap before this car will be easy.

I would recommend having the upper/lower vacuum hoses replaced (aka the infamous $12 hose), the cam isolation wires installed, and the vacuum pump gaskets. That would take care of the majority of little things that could go wrong on the new engine. Depending on the mileage of the engine, timing chain would be a good idea too.

[Dune]

I am fimiliar with the vacuum hoses and VP gasket, what are cam isolation wires?

For sure I am changing the timing chain since it was the reason my current engine crapped out.

[BF_JC230]

I don't see this as anyone's FAULT on this forum (or any m271 owner)...rather I see the fault with Mercedes-Benz. This is not MENTIONED anywhere (Unless the "blanket statement" on Page 72 "At 143,000 miles, Check integrity of engine, mechanical components") also suggests and "means" replace timing chain.

In my opinion...this is poor, lousy and does not live up to the "former" MB tag line..."Engineered like no other car in the world."

Seems likes more like a "Recall / TSB" to me...Lousy...bad valves, poor original head design, leaking sensors, vacuum hoses, now timing chain failures...lousey.

[C230 Sport Coup]

New tagline.

"Mercedes builds the best Italian Cars in the world"

[Dune]

I just got quoted $850 to swap the engine and $200 to change the timing chain on the used one I am going to purchase? What you guys think? Any concerns?

[LILBENZ230]

A timing chain should never need to be replaced. That's one of the benefits to this over a belt. So much for that!

[tommy]

Originally Posted by C230 Sport Coup

New tagline.

"Mercedes builds the best Italian Cars in the world"

I would think: "Mercedes. They don't make 'em like they used to."

Dune, does that come with a warranty? If it's at least a six-month one, and preferably a one-year one, I'd say that's a good price, assuming you've checked them out and they seem to know what they're doing.

[LILBENZ230]

I think that $850 was the cost to do the labor to swap it. The engine sold separately.

[tommy]

Originally Posted by LILBENZ230

I think that $850 was the cost to do the labor to swap it. The engine sold separately.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. The shop should warranty its work on the swap.

[Dune]

The engine, and labor have a 90 day warranty, considering I was going to do the swap myself and have no warranty on my work, $850 sounds good to me because of the 90 day warranty and I do not have to do the work.

I agree a timing chain should last longer, but to say it sould never be replaced is being a bit short sited.

[LILBENZ230]

I don't think you ever answered how many miles your car had?

[Dune]

2005 C230 with 103K miles, I would think a $37K Mecedes Benz, key word Mercedes Benz, should last longer than 103K before a major failure.

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by Dune

2005 C230 with 103K miles, I would think a $37K Mecedes Benz, key word Mercedes Benz, should last longer than 103K before a major failure.

You'd think that, yet you'd be wrong. Rumour has it the W203 was not extensively tested, it was computer simulated thus why the W204 underwent extensive testing.

[LILBENZ230]

As far as I know that computer simulated testing is no rumor.. It's why the early W203s were so horrific.

Also, sorry, I do recall the mileage thing now. 103k and a new engine.. no excuse for that one.

[Dune]

So basically, I can expect future problems even with a lower milage engine being installed. Is there any preventative upgrades I can do to the engine before installing to better the life expectancy?

On the computer simulated testing, that is information I could have used in June of 2005.

[LILBENZ230]

Again I'm not going to even begin to excuse this at 103k miles, but to play devil's advocate just a bit the car was clearly showing warning of something being amiss for 3 months. In any of those three months of cold start noises, did you ever look into it?

It's not your fault either way. But a few of us on here have been trying to raise awareness about this and urge people to listen carefully (with door open) to cold starts in their M271s and look to replace the chain and tensioner as a maintenance item (even though it shouldn't be). Still 103k is too early.

Obviously you've owned the car since new, I assume you've followed the factory maintenance schedule as far as approved oils and change intervals.

[Hogger]

Originally Posted by Dune

Is there any preventative upgrades I can do to the engine before installing to better the life expectancy?

Change the timing chain, balance chain, tensioner, and guides. Make sure you have the new "$12 hose". And put in all new gaskets(head, intake, exhaust, and valve cover).

[Dune]

I did hear the noises for about 3 months, to be honest I did not get too concerned about it because I have a guy who cared for the car and he never mentioned any concern over the sound.

[amanonfire]

Originally Posted by Dune

So basically, I can expect future problems even with a lower milage engine being installed. Is there any preventative upgrades I can do to the engine before installing to better the life expectancy?

Same as I stated before: $12 hose (hoses, upper and lower), vacuum pump gaskets, cam isolation wires.

Plus good fuel and a heavy foot to keep carbon from building up. The head on the M271 is prone to bending valves if carbon builds up and causes a valve to stick. The $12 hose and cam magnet leak cause exacerbate this issue as they cause the engine to run rich.

If you fix these small issues you'll get a lot of life out of these engines. Unfortunately I've recommended several people not to buy these used unless they know the service history. I would not want a "lady driven" (aka carbon built up, poorly maintained) low mileage M271, even though this is what many look for on the used market.

Maybe the timing chain should become a maintenance item like a timing belt since most people aren't going to be knowledgeable enough to discern the rattle at startup as something eventually catastrophic.

Originally Posted by Dune

On the computer simulated testing, that is information I could have used in June of 2005.

I could have used it in Sept of 2002. I bought a Mercedes based off the reputation of the W202s being solid as a rock.

[RedStripe]

Dune.
$850 to swap the engine.
What happened to doing this yourself?