SteveL1

I've been fighting a nagging rough idle and CEL codes P2187 & P2189 (idle too lean) and my plates have now expired and it won't pass the emissions test so I take it to the dealer this morning. They call at 5:20PM and tell me that I need a new intake manifold to the tune of $1,800. ($1,1100 in parts, $90 something in tax and 3.8 hours of labor.) Too late to call any independant shops and I need to make a decision in the morning.

I replaced the plugs about a week ago which did not help the rough idle. Got a can of starter spray and found a bunch of spots where the idle would rise slightly when I sprayed near them. This was with the air cleaner housing in place so I could not tell if the leaks are hoses, gaskets or the manifold.

I can see it needing gaskets at 102,000 miles but an entire manifold? If they are telling the truth, how much would one epect to save going to an independant for the repair? Problem is that I get a loaner from the dealer but would have to rent a car if I use an independant, which would probably cost $100-200 plus the aggrevation.

Is this a common problem with our cars? I could not find anything searching the subject except for a bunch of AMG owners having similar issues.

I appreciate any help you can give! At the very least, I plan on visiting the dealer and have them show me the parts they claim are bad before they put it back together.

Hogger

Your car info??

An intake manifold for an M271 is $400 at Genuine Mercedes Parts.

EDIT: There it is. They have your manifold for $856. Might find it cheaper somewhere else, but that's one of the places I use.

LILBENZ230

You'll save several hundred by going Indy but you have to decide what your time is worth. You should note that dealers are part swappers. They don't repair anything. I'm not saying this is your case but something simple an Indy can repair for peanuts a dealer will charge you a huge amount to replace

SteveL1

Thanks for the replys. I think I will stop by an indy shop to see what they say before going to the dealer. Worse case is that I get a little educated.

Is the manifold the only parts needed? What about gaskets or do they come with the manifold for $856? I could not find any intake gaskets using their search tool.

When I go to the dealer, will they actually be able to show me what is wrong with the mainfold? I would like to be as educated as possible when I question them.

Thanks!

phister

Junkyard Ebay craigslist or classifieds can probably find you one for cheap

Glyn M Ruck

This M272/273 manifold nonsense seems common.

Here:

https://mbworld.org/forums/clk-class...ld-broken.html

johnand

That is the 1st I have read about a bad manifold on an M272 that requires entire replacement, so I would be suspect of the dealers diagnosis. I will look in STAR for your codes and see what it says. I would suspect you have a leak somewhere in the manifold to cause those errors. The intake manifold on the M272 is magnesium and has swirl flap valves to change from short to long runners, that is why it is so expensive. I agree with Phister, get a used one if it is REALLY needed.

Glyn M Ruck

It's the plastic actuator rods that break! There is no replacement kit available.

Boom vang

is this the same 'german plastic' that I harp on? Seems that this black plastic does not stand the test of time and there is too much of it used in all areas of our engine

Boom vang

$802.50 at OE Parts ( a Mercedes dealer in NC)

http://www.oediscountparts.com/parts...icleid=1432266

tommy

So you're looking to save $307 on parts (assuming the problem is the IM), then do the following calculations:

+ 307 parts
- 45 shipping on parts
+ 370 labor (rough guess - though something doesn't sound right - $1,800-1,110-95 = $595 / 3.8 hours = 156.58/hr - is that really what your dealer charges you?) I'll cut the hours down a little for an indy - 2.5 hrs x 90 = $225
- 150 Rental car (midpoint in your estimate)
+ 482 Net savings

That's a rough guess. I'd say it's probably worth going through the hassle of an indy and a rental car company, if the add'l couple of days waiting for an IM to come in are not a problem.

johnand

Found a couple of used ones at car-part.com for $240-450.

C230 Sport Coup

I never heard of a car needing a new intake manifold unless it warps.

SteveL1

Glyn is correct! I had two of the actuator rods broken at the point where they go through the pressed in bushing in the manifold therefore allowing air to be sucked in at those points. I ended up talking to an Indy repair shop before going back to the dealer and he basically said what previous posters have said. Options are a used manifold, and you take your chances, or go new. After figuring the amount of time it would take to get the parts on line, the hassle of a rental and the fact that I have to drive to KC on Monday for two days of business, I bit the bullet and told the dealer to fix it. I'm not happy about it but at least I did my research and confronted the dealer to show me the problem first hand. They were a bit surprised that I knew as much as I did about the swirl flaps, actuator rods, etc.

Since I need to pass the emmissions test to get new tags, the tech rep said that they would take care of putting the miles on it to get the monitors to reset instead of me picking up the car, driving it for a couple of days with expired tags and then taking it back for testing. Since I'm in sales, I figured that the amount of time I would spend messing around with all of this would cost me more in lost commissions so I'm somewhat OK with it.

Just iritates me that something like this is not serviceable and the only option is to replace the entire manifold. I miss the old days of a car just having points, plugs and a rotor. Heck I rebuilt my fair share of carburators back in the day, but now you have to have an MBA and $$$$ worth of tools and diagnostic equipment just to fix a rough idle.

Thanks for all the help! Hopefully this will be of help to others when the time comes.

91RS

That is not true. There are just as many (if not more) techs who don't know how to fix cars at independants as there are at dealers.

This dealer looks like they did just fine in my book. Diagnosed the car, gave him a car to drive, showed him what was wrong with the car, are now fixing the car, and then going above and beyond to get the car ready to pass emissions for him.

chadilteam

Hello,
i'm a proessional in belgium when i was looking at the prices in the US i was surprised actually i work on a new manifold for the 190 i finished the model & i m starting the process of manufacturation you can check my website :
www.chadil.com
i've an online store
if you want more information send me an email to info@chadil.eu
i'll be pleased sharing my knowledge with users on this forum
Regards

LILBENZ230

That absolutely is true. Dealers replace parts. Yes, this "fixes" the problem and I certainly never stopped the dealer from throwing parts at my car while it was under warranty. However, as soon as that warranty was up and it was on my dime, I felt differently.

I'm not saying that dealers don't know how to fix the cars, like I said, if you replace enough parts you'll eventually fix it. I'm saying the way they go about it is usually incredibly expensive. When my car had a CEL at 30-something thousand miles, the dealer replaced several different emission components before bothering to do any real diagnostics. It was a leaking fuel filler neck, common on the 2005s. Of course, I had to make three trips to the dealer because they kept throwing parts at it and calling it fixed. The CEL kept returning. See, if they'd done actual diagnostics on it at the start the hassle could be avoided. That said, it was all free, aside from my time. If I were paying for the repair it would have been four-figures. This is unacceptable.

Dealers swap parts until the problem is fixed. Sometimes, it's the first part. Sometimes it isn't. A good independent mechanic will diagnose and, if possible, repair a part a dealer would have simply replaced.

tommy

Different goals, imho. Dealers want to fix the problem without regard to cost, so yes, if a problem can be fixed with a wholesale change of a part, then that's what they will recommend. An indy will tend to try to get the same result while keeping an eye on the costs for you, in addition to having cheap labor (but no free donuts or car washes, sadly!).

It's nice to have options, I think. I do think that your experience with the leaking fuel filler neck is more of an example of the shoddy work at your local dealer than dealerships in general.

To OP, glad that you're getting it fixed. Another benefit - warranty on dealer work and parts. Everyone's just got to decide if it's worth the $$.

LILBENZ230

It must be an Atlanta thing, then. Because that was Atlanta Classic Cars, the same dealer who cornered me about the leaking cam magnets "Which engine do you have?" At that point, I lost. I said "The four-cylinder". Their response "It only happens to the V6." If I had said "V6, they'd have said it only happens to the four-cylinder".

RBM of Atlanta did the cam magnet recall on my car a few months ago. They pulled my car in, kept it 30 minutes, and gave it back to me saying that my white 2007 C230 didn't qualify for the recall. Even though they "inspected" the car, they failed to notice it was silver, failed to notice it had a four-cylinder instead of a V6.. yeah, confidence inspiring.

Also, Acura dealers from Ed Voyles to Nalley in Atlanta are also incapable of any real diagnostics. Been down that road. Honda dealers in Rome and Cartersville also not interested in real diagnostics, only interested in throwing parts at it. Chevrolet dealership will reset warning lights that return in a few days, never fix the issue.

The only positive experiences in 10 years at dealerships have been at Nalley Lexus and United BMW.

tommy

OK, it's a Southern thing, then.

I've had very good experience with a local Honda dealership on some odd issues with my heavily-modded 24-year-old CRX; they've always been good, and haven't cared about the mods (which is surprising in today's sue-me first environment).

My local MB dealer just fixed my SRS warning issue; if they followed your examples, they would have just told me to replace the entire harness instead of fixing it. Still, everything's a crapshoot, buyer beware, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, a rolling stone gathers no moss, etc.....

MBfinatic

I just bought the upgraded intake manifold for the m272.960 for $240..... You can DIY. This intake manifold is better than your stock and will make more power!

silvermamba

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pts/2912923968.html

Not sure if they still have the intake manifold, but i just called them for some parts for my 05 c230

Jack_2001C240

I live in the New York City area where it is hard to find a good independant to fix any make. Helms Brothers Mercedes diagnosed and replaced my front SAM (car will not crank) the 1st time . Also replaced the heater stepper motor, but that one was pretty obvious. I drive my 2001 C240 very conservatively on weekends only for the past 11 years. Maybe that is why I have not experienced problems such as the intake manifold issue or a lot of other problems that newer W203s have. I only have about 50,000 miles through.

MBfinatic

You only have 50k?!

Glyn M Ruck

The M112 engine is bullet proof. It never had this problem.