miami1lt

Sorry to dig up old thread, but had this happen to me today.

Yes, it is covered under extended warranty...yes, they have to flush and add trans fluid as part of the repair. And NO, it is NOT authorized for repair outside of MB...I called 3 Indys with no luck, and Mercedes said "It's a theft/VIN coded part, and is therefore must be sold and repaired by them". I have to believe them as the Indys said the same thing.

I didn't' get the car back yet, but when I first mentioned "not shifting" the service rep said "Yep, that's the speed sensor/conductor plate". They knew code 0718 before I read it on my reader.

samaritrey

Conductor plate on a 722.6 can be bought from most parts stores and installed in your back yard... its not a 722.9

C230 Sport Coup

Yeah, there's a great video online for the 5 speed.

sogaro

Well i have an issue at the moment with a W219 in my workshop, the original CP is defective and needs to be replaced, i got another used Valve gear and a new CP VGS3 and have not been able to program the unit for a while. It keeps showing it could not determine the coding strings from the Mercedes server. In fixing this VGS1 issue, do i need to replace with another VGS1 Valve gear and VGS1 plate or a VGS1 valve gear and a VGS3 CP or i can use a new model valve gear with a new CP VGS3?

andyclev

Newbie here. Recently bought a 2006 ML350 with 70k miles on it, perfect inside and out, and engine sounds great, excellent records, etc.

Within a week had an issue with the front differential and one Timken bearing kit sold on eBay and a competent mechanic had it fixed for about $600. Quiet as a mouse.

A little rattled I then had to deal with a front left wheel bearing, likely going south prior to diff rebuild and exacerbated by the rebuild, $175 and quiet as a mouse.

If the above wasn't enough I then went into limp mode, code thrown for the conductor plate issue. One re-manufactured 722.9 conductor plate + competent mechanic later who knew what he was doing and all done for about $1,100 BUT the tranny wasn't shifting well at all and the check engine light came on.

Diagnosis was a bad Mass Airflow Sensor, could have done myself but told mechanic to get it done, $300.

Turns out that the air sensor repair completely fixed the shifting issues. Main point is if you start to have a rough idle and tranny shift issues, could very well be a very inexpensive fix.

Great price on car + $2.3k and I have to tell you, it's one of the nicest rides I've ever been in - peppy, responsive, handles superbly, and I couldn't be more pleased.

Took a few long trips to the shop (mechanic was older guy and slow... as... molasses) but well worth the wait.

Hoping and praying I don't get the balance shaft problem, but I hear the best thing to do for avoiding that expensive puppy is to change the oil every 5k miles like a normal car, not the 10k+ MB now recommends. That's bullcrap. Change regularly and I hear all should be well. Did I just jinx myself?

Thought this post might help anyone who's about to pull their hair out with their ML350. I almost did but saw light at the end of the tunnel and it's the best driving car I've ever owned, hands down.

All the best!

brbhan

-Conductor plate IS covered. My warranty had just expired so dealer split the cost; my share being $450.
-Fluid is automatically drained . Tranny pan must be dropped for access to plate. That answers your question?
btw: excellent YouYube doc on DIY swap-over. Wish I cld provide the link.........

C230 Sport Coup

andyclev's post needs to be moved to the W164 forum.

Nick ML350

The NHTSA has been notified of the conductor plate issue which is essentially a MFG DEFECT and has opened up a case file for the problem. If you are having this issue file an official complaint on line at NHTSA so as to be notified of the RECALL when it occurs. According to the spokes person, MB may be required to reimburse individuals who were already forced into making this repair. My cost was $1500 at the local MB dealership as adding insult to injury, the repair is a monopoly business at MB as access to the part is RESTRICTED.

Jay Pinot

Where did you purchase your conductor plate? Was it new or used? I need to get mine replaced

brbhan

eEuroParts.com s/b able to provide a refurb. I think I've seen it listed on their site. Call: (800) 467-9769.
I got mine at local dealership. New part, intalled, was $900 but dealer split it with me. No problems after that. Considering what's involved, I'd get a new part.

Section3

sorry to revive the thread, but I've just changed the conductor plate on my c220 and I'm still have the same issue (refusing to change gear!) have I missed something or is there something I should check? also do I need to get it plugged in and errors cleared by a garage.... I hope someone can help.

cvx

Section, you need to seriously get it scanned with MB's own STAR Diagnosis / get it re-coded if necessary with STAR. Other scanners do not show anything useful for issues regarding the transmission.

Did you change it yourself?

brbhan

The 722.6 family of transmissions were plagued by oil seepage at the electrical connector. Over time, this oil was known to have travelled up (capillary action) the harness and fornicate the computer/controller by the firewall. Problem is solvable. Check the conductor plate connector.
Meanwhile, you still s/b able to shift up and down by manually flicking the gear-shift lever.

My changeout was done by dealer. No problems. Again, as with all electronics, nothing is 'forever'. Good luck.

Demetrios Tom S

have a weird comment I bought the conductor plate last night my Machanic said he does not have the software to program it so he took to another guy toe truck 6 hours after he says his computer not working now they take it to Tampa benz dealer to program it make sense ?

brbhan

The 722 tranny on E320 I penned about, requires no programming. It is "adaptive" a.k.a. learns. Dunno about the C Seies MB . I n your shoes I'd give MB dealer first shot.

dcsimmons

I have a 2006 MBZ E-350 (W211) with an upgraded transmission valve body (722.9 -VGS3-NAG2) installed in 2012, and I have an issue. I found this article very interesting, and am hoping you can shed some light on my similar situation as well as to save people a lot of money if a theory of mine is correct.

With the transmission, I get the error "0721" which says, "The output speed of the transmission is implausible compared to the wheel RPM"
With the engine, I get the error 0730 "Incorrect Gear Ratio". My transmission does not slip at all, and monitoring my speeds for the converter slip speed, internal transmission speed N2, output speed, turbine speed, wheel speed, and CAN engine speed are very consistent with no dips or spikes. Even graphing them out shows no dips and instead steady numbers.

98 percent of the time, when I tell a mechanic I get error message "0721", they say it is a "conductor plate issue" almost before I can finish telling them anything else. Then I ask them why and they say, "0721 is the error saying that the output speed sensor failed or is failing in the conductor plate. They say, "The Star system will tell you it is a conductor plate issue".

But then I tell them, this isn't code 0722, or 0723; this is 0721 stating that the speed is "implausible", not that there isn't any speed (0722) or that it is intermittent (0723). I just got back from a Mercedes Dealership that was about to install a new conductor plate, and I told them when I set up the appointment they needed to prove to me the "Star system" says 0721 states it needs a new conductor plate.

Interestingly enough, when I showed up with the car, and they were ready to take it away from me to do the repair, I said, "Show me where the Star system says 0721 says it is a bad conductor plate". And then, I waited, waited, and waited. Finally, the service manager comes out and says, "We couldn't actually find anything that says it is the conductor plate, but that is what it is. We have replaced a lot of these with this code, and it fixed the problem. So I said, that doesn't mean the conductor plate actually had anything wrong with it, that means that when you installed the new one, you may have done something to fix the problem that would have fixed it for the old one by accident, like making sure it was programmed correctly. You should have seen the shock on this guys face when I said that. I don't think I made a friend.

I said, you need to note the distinction of the 0721, 0722, 0723 codes. 0721 just says the information it is getting doesn't make sense (implausible) compared to what it is expecting with the wheel RPM. That could be an ECU issue, where the ratio in software are off of what it is expecting, and that could be programming in the ECU. And with the 2006 MBZ E-350, unless I am missing something, the ECU makes those decisions, only taking the parameters from the TCU to do the calculations, making this assumption by the parameter in the variant coding (Autel Maxisys Elite, Diagnostics / Programming / ME 9.7-Motor electronics 9.7 / variant coding / Read the coding and change as necessary / coding". Parameter 64, "Torque increase via Transmission Control Module (TCM): is set to: "Monitoring of the torque increase in the ECU".
The options are the same or: Monitoring of the torque increase in the Tansmission Control Module (TCM), Fault, or Impermissible".

In other words, the TCU is not chosen as an option for my E-350, but rather the ECU. Then I told him my theory as to what is going on, and he was in shock saying, "That is an interesting theory, but if you are correct, then it means that tens of thousands of conductor plates may have never had an issue, and that would be really bad for business."

So, If I am correct, then hopefully this saves people a lot of money, and the reason I am so detailed in this.

My theory is this! In 2012, an updated valve body was installed at the dealer. Everything was fine till I went to update my ECU and TCU this fall with my Autel MaxiSys Elite scanner. In the process of updating the ECU, the voltage of the battery dropped low enough that the process was interrupted and after waiting for a a very long time, just disconnected everything to start over. While the key would turn back for me to reconnect to the OBD II, it appeared the ECU was dead otherwise.

When you update the ECU, the scanner warns you to make sure there is a battery charger on it because otherwise the battery voltage will get too low, and it could fry the ECU. It needs to add that you need at least 40 amps charging while updating the ECU. The cooling fan runs at an extremely high speed, and long enough that a 20 amp charger can't keep up with it, and so even with a large good battery, the voltage will drop below the 12 volt threshold. I did not have access to my commercial battery charger the first time around, and so just crossed my fingers I'd make it through the update. Unfortunately, the voltage dropped too low, so the whole process went dead, and there was nothing I could do but hope I didn't have to replace my ECU.

I tried multiple times to connect to the ECU again with the scanner,, but nothing. I was all but convinced my ECU was toast. Then after about the 3rd attempt, the MaxiSys screen says, "attempting to use Gateway to make a connection". And most amazingly, it comes back and makes a connection. I fell in love with my Autel MaxiSys scanner at that point, because it saved my ***! I then went about updating the ECU with a continuous 60 amps charging and got through the complete cycle successfully.

A couple of things that may be noteworthy after updating the software. The engine light does not come on anymore when the camshafts are over retarded (OBD II P0016) or advanced from wear and tear. This is nice, because my Benz runs great, but always had the light on, from the existing codes showing. In fact, another theory of mine is that replacing the "vibration damper" at the cost of over $5,000 may never have needed to be done. It is my opinion the vibration you are feeling is not of the vibration damper gone bad, but rather the advancing of the camshaft increasing the compression and causing the engine vibration. Smooth idling is a function of retarding the camshaft so that less air can get in, and thus less compression. And advancing the camshaft lets more air in, giving more power, more compression, and thus the rougher speed you will feel as if you have an engine with a high rise manifold (which it does actually have anyway).

If you have ever removed the intake manifold, you will see it is a "high rise" manifold, and a lot of the extra performance comes from this and the variable valve timing. The variable valve timing is to give it performance, and then let it idle smooth and provide better gas mileage. So it is an opinion of mine that the rough engine speed more often than not is not the vibration damper, but rather a natural symptom of over advanced camshaft timing.

Interestingly enough, I most recently reset the adaptation for the camshaft with the scanner, and now I only get the one showing P0016, or "retarding". My vibration totally went away with over 180,000 miles on the car.

When the light originally came on, and I sensed the rough idle, I was told I needed to spend the $5,000 or my engine would be toast. I was told I would see completely worn gears when the engine was torn apart. I have another hundred thousand miles on it, and after replacing the motor mounts, and re-adapting my camshaft positions, it actually runs smooth again. So it is my opinion that the camshafts need to be "re-adapted" periodically, and that in a lot of cases, the vibration damper is not an issue. Back to the transmission issue...

Unfortunately, after doing the ECU updating utilizing the "gateway", it quit shifting at different speeds as I drive now. It will quit shifting in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, all the gears. It seems to be a timed thing, where it isn't as much a function of how fast I go, but more a function of how long I have driven. There is never an engine light coming on, no clue except that when you scan the codes, you get "0721" with the transmission, and 0730 with the engine.

If I take off really aggressively, sport mode, or comfort, I can get to 4th gear, and once in a while 5th gear, but then it stays quietly in that gear. Otherwise, it will stop in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd if I take off slow, depending on how much time I have driven. Again, no light, but won't shift. Putting the car back into Park puts the car into Limp mode, but turning the engine off and then back on, resets it back to shift normal.

I can put the car in neutral driving down the road, turn the engine off, restart it and whatever speed I am driving, then put it back into Drive and it will automatically go into the correct gear for that speed. I drove it 1800 miles from Kansas City to Scottsdale Arizona doing exactly that to get it here.

To eliminate it being a valve body issue (since staying in a gear is usually a hydraulic issue), I dropped the pan, the valve body, and replaced the actual shift solenoids (green / blue caps that vary pressure with current). I did a visible inspection of the valve body, removing the extremely small metal shavings that are normal with a magnet. Then I cleaned all the electrical contacts and re-assembled it.

It is my understanding, for the most part, the solenoids that are on or off (the 4 with the black caps that don't vary pressure with current) are responsible for the limp mode states. So knowing it had no problems with staying in a gear, or limp mode, I assumed they weren't an issue. The nudges you feel when you put your car into a gear (revers or forward) when it isn't shifting correctly or has been put into limp mode is what you would feel if a solenoid is either on or off. Not the smooth in or out of a gear that varies pressure with current. So I only replaced them (ones with the green / blue caps).

I used the Pentosin 134 transmission fluid (which saved a lot of money, and I highly recommend, purchased the whole kit for less than $80.00 from FCPEuro.com). I had never used them before, but was very impressed. I was expecting to get my delivery of the 6 liters of fluid, the filter, gasket, and even the screws 4 to 5 days later. It all showed up with-in two days, I never paid for the extra shipping. Again, very impressed, and they saved me a lot of money! took a little over 6 quarts, in the end.

I cleaned the pan, removed the small metal smudge on the magnets, and finally replaced the filter. I even used "brand new stretch bolts" for the pan because it is recommended and it came with the kit from FCPEuro. My personal opinion is that having to use new "stretch bolts" is somewhat a scam for most situations. Even in my 911 Porsche while doing a whole tear down, I used new stretch bolts because it was inexpensive relative to the total cost of the other parts, but not sure I even needed them. My personal opinion is that if an engine has ever been overheated, then you need them because the stretch bolts have "stretched" beyond the point of their tensile strength / length and don't actually "stretch" anymore anyway as the engine gets hot. But I replaced mine anyway out of the possibility I am missing something because while I am 6 hours short of being a Mechanical Engineer, I am only a "EE" or Electrical Engineer.

Out of curiosity, on my Porsche, I measured the old head stretch bolts compared to the new ones with a mic that has the highest of tolerances, and there wasn't a difference. But my Porsche engine had never been overheated. Again, it is just my personal opinion especially with the way the pan bolts are applied, it would be hard to imagine something going wrong using the old ones even though I used the new ones as well.. Back to the Benz!

So I put it the transmission back together and while it may have shifted a little smoother, it didn't solve the problem. Most sources say it is a hydraulic issue if it just quits shifting and doesn't throw an engine light or go into the second gear of limp mode. So to eliminate my issue being "hydraulic", short of it being something internal in the valve body which is basically springs with check valves and channels for fluid to flow, I replaced the other 4 limp mode solenoids (ones with the black cap) to eliminate it being a "hydraulic" issue. It did nothing as I suspected it wouldn't.

I never thought it was a conductor plate or valve body issue, but that is what everyone that is supposed to be an "expert" on this was telling me it is. Now after doing everything short of replacing the conductor plate, this is my theory, and I am interested in what you think since you seem very knowledgeable over this.

I think that when I got my ECU up and running again, and it used the "gateway" through the internet back to the Mercedes plant to get the SCN and codes, it set my ECU to think I have the old valve body that was in it before updating it in 2012. And the reason I now get the 0721 error is that the speed the ECU is expecting to get from the output sensor of the conductor plate compared to the wheel RPM isn't what it expects, so it quits shifting and throws the 0721 code and 0730 code.

Of course this could only happen if the Conductor plate is married to the VIN and not the ECU when being "virginized", otherwise the ECU expecting the old valve body wouldn't allow the car to even run. And this would make sense, because otherwise it would mean the conductor plates that aren't supposed to be able to be re-flashed, would have to be when a new ECU was added to the car. So it seems there is no doubt the TCU is matched to the VIN, and not the ECU, so this could be a problem I believe.

Anyway, I know this is lengthy, but there is a lot into what has been going on, and what I have done to find the solution. The transmission fluid was not discolored when I pulled the valve body the first time. It had no burnt smell to it, and there were no shifting signs anything was wrong with it.

If I am right, then maybe tens of thousands of Mercedes Benz owners have been paying to put in new Conductor plates when there was probably nothing wrong with them. They were updated TCU's (VGS2 or VGS3) and were trying to match up with an ECU expecting the old one (VGS1 or VGS2).

I would really value your opinion on this!

tjts1

TLDR

Cuzzo

What is an EHS number that was mentioned.?

Russell Ormerod

It's the number stamped on the valve body

Cuzzo

Ok thanks

E63007

I have rebuilt the front end including both Heads, as well as replaced the Rear Main Seal, Rubber Disc, Tranny Mount, cleaned tranny Valve Body, engine mounts, Radiator, AC Compressor, Power Steering Pump, oil Cooler Pipe Seals, All Bushings in the rear Suspension and Subframe and rear wheel carrier, 3.06 Diff gear change and LSD, Rebuilt AirSprings, new shocks, Hubs, Rotors, Brakes and Lo and behold, recently the TCU malfunction ( STAR/Xentry codes were 2767 “Internal Speed Sensor VGS is not Available” and 2768 “VGS is defective” ) reared it’s ugly head whenever I would engage the paddle shifters before the temps hit 80*C by not identifying in the display what gear I was actually in. I could see the intended gear change in the display (low side) but when this issue would present itself, the upper part of the display would not register. As such, I would “correct” the issue by pulling over and turning the ignition off/on and all would be OK again! It would “reset” and usually I could engage the paddle shifters at speed and it would operate just fine.

However, Yesterday I was driving home from a meeting and I get to a stop light, make the turn onto a three lane street (50mph) and couldn’t get out of first gear! I tried pulling over, but it was the last straw! SOL! Restarting didn’t “Reset” it as it usually did. I was officially stuck since I wasn’t carrying my laptop/STAR/Xentry in the car!

So while I was on the phone with Roadside Assistance, I told them I’d call back as I balanced the merits of sending the Car either to my home for me to do the repair myself by removing the valve body and sending the TCU out for the repair. To be honest, I was expecting that I would have to do this, but since I don’t have all the “other parts” I had envisioned of installing while I would have sent the TCU out for repair, such as the American Racing Headers, Stage 2 CamShafts, E63 Motorsport Cam Adjuster Plates/Pins and Ti screws, I had to make a decision between this or sending out to Mercedes. But then I remembered seeing an advertisement by RennTech regarding their in-house Clutch/Brake rebuild kit. When I first removed the Tranny and cleaned out the Valve Body, I was at the time giving thought to getting the tranny rebuilt, but I didn’t pull that trigger. However, now rather than spending in upwards of $1500 to Mercedes for them to replace the TCU, after calling RennTech, I’m biting the bullet and choosing to have RennTech install upgraded clutch plates as well as program a new TCU instead! I’ve held out on busting this move and it definitely goes against my DIY nature, but I figure once I get this done, the car will be more than ready for the other upgrades I throw at it!!!

UPDATE (11-23-22)-I had the car sent to RennTech and after a week they emailed me that I needed a new Valve Body/TCU Unit and the cost would be $3150 with labor, which almost the same as what it would cost for the Tranny Upgrade Clutch/Brake Kit! They also informed me that if they were to install a new Valve Body/TCU unit, that at this time they were having “problems” with thier STAR/Xentry and would not be able to “pair the unit once it were to be installed! Gee, it would have been nice if they checked on that before when I was on the phone with them discussing my exact problem as I was stuck on the road and their “confirming to me” that if they were to pair a New TCU that they would be able to SCN Program “Pair” it to the car!

So I called them and the guy said that the “Tech stated that a New Valve Body/TCU would need to installed before they could see if my car would be a good candidate for their Upgraded Clutch/Brake Kit!” I politely disagreed by stating the Valve Body works just fine, as I had 2k mi ago removed it, taken it apart and cleaned both halves and subsequently have been driving it ever since. Moreover, I specified that it was a VGS2 (NOT VGS1) and that is the one that can be repaired/replaced as a unit that could be installed back on Top of the Valve Body in the Tranny: A) without any SCN Programming if it were to be repaired, and B) if replaced with a new unit, it would than have to be SCN Programmed. I reminded the guy that I had made this clear to them while I was stuck on the side of the road the week before! I further explained that the codes referred to the Speed Sensor located on the middle of the Transmission Control Module and is separate from the TCU itself. I further stated that it would make no sense to go ahead and pay for a New Valve Body/TCU unit if they couldn’t even “pair it to the car” and, being that it is an issue I could address at home for a fraction of what they were asking ( ala Circuit Board Medics!) I had a tow truck deliver my car that day!

As it happens, all it took was for me to clear the codes both for a misfire (Engine Mgt) and for the Tranny (2767-68) and I could drive it again! Pretty unbelievable they didn’t even do so much as that and left me with having to get it towed, but that’s life! I guess selecting “erase Codes” and turning Off/On the ignition 2x would have been too much of an effort! When I remove it this time, I’ll be sure to identify those numbers on the Valve Body itself in the event I ever replace the TCU with another/new one!