M271 cam sprocket replacement
04-25-2016, 08:03 PM
#1
M271 cam sprocket replacement
I have a 2005 c230 1.8 compressor (M271). The car was bought new the first two oil changes were done at the dealer. The rest of the maintenance I've done myself. I've used Mobil 1 synthetic European spec oil for Mercedes vehicles and oem Mercedes oil filter bought from the dealer.
The car has 145000 miles it was running fine and then it felt like it went into limp mode. It had thrown a cam sensor error but once I shut it down and restarted it was behaving normal. It ran fine for two more days, I went to start it and it would crank but not start. No weird noises or anything just no start.
I checked both cam sensor and both were working correctly. I could not trouble shoot the crankshaft sensor because its location there was no way of testing it so I bought another one and put it in still no start.
The engine sounded like it had no compression as it turned. I went ahead and took the valve cover off to look at the chain. It had jumped time. I still haven't been able to verify if there are any valves bent since it jumped during a start and I'm able to turn the engine by hand and do not feel any interference.
The main problem that I have is that the cam sprockets appear worn. I've looked for replacements and they wan $700 dollars for the cam adjusters. I'm trying to find out if the cam sprockets can be bought separate or is the whole cam adjuster has to be bought.
I can't believe that I have to spend $1400 just on the cam sprockets not counting all the other stuff that needs to be bought to get this engine back running. I understand that timing chains stretch and need to be replace but to consider the sprockets a wear item and to charge $700 a piece for them is highway robbery. I certainly didn't expect a Mercedes to have a catastrophic engine failure at 145000 miles when Hyundai's are making it to the 200000 mark in one piece.
The car has 145000 miles it was running fine and then it felt like it went into limp mode. It had thrown a cam sensor error but once I shut it down and restarted it was behaving normal. It ran fine for two more days, I went to start it and it would crank but not start. No weird noises or anything just no start.
I checked both cam sensor and both were working correctly. I could not trouble shoot the crankshaft sensor because its location there was no way of testing it so I bought another one and put it in still no start.
The engine sounded like it had no compression as it turned. I went ahead and took the valve cover off to look at the chain. It had jumped time. I still haven't been able to verify if there are any valves bent since it jumped during a start and I'm able to turn the engine by hand and do not feel any interference.
The main problem that I have is that the cam sprockets appear worn. I've looked for replacements and they wan $700 dollars for the cam adjusters. I'm trying to find out if the cam sprockets can be bought separate or is the whole cam adjuster has to be bought.
I can't believe that I have to spend $1400 just on the cam sprockets not counting all the other stuff that needs to be bought to get this engine back running. I understand that timing chains stretch and need to be replace but to consider the sprockets a wear item and to charge $700 a piece for them is highway robbery. I certainly didn't expect a Mercedes to have a catastrophic engine failure at 145000 miles when Hyundai's are making it to the 200000 mark in one piece.
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mnynwave (10-07-2018)
04-26-2016, 03:51 PM
#2
MBWorld Fanatic!
They re freaking expensive that's for sure!
If it makes you feel better, in Russia these sprockets routinely fail at 60-70k kilometers!
Look what I found:
http://www.m271.com/_shop/uncategori...hange-service/
They also seem to sell just the pair of sprockets for 500 gbp, where you rebuild your own adjusters and don't have to send the core returns back to UK.
Do you think it might make sense to re-position the chain so that the timing is right (with the old chain) and perform a compression test, that way you will make sure you don't need to repair the head.
If it makes you feel better, in Russia these sprockets routinely fail at 60-70k kilometers!
Look what I found:
http://www.m271.com/_shop/uncategori...hange-service/
They also seem to sell just the pair of sprockets for 500 gbp, where you rebuild your own adjusters and don't have to send the core returns back to UK.
Do you think it might make sense to re-position the chain so that the timing is right (with the old chain) and perform a compression test, that way you will make sure you don't need to repair the head.
04-26-2016, 04:03 PM
#3
Super Member
I'm guessing you saw these complete units at ~$700/each http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/200...ming_unit.html
I used to have free access to StarTek to look up part numbers but they changed it to $75/year
http://epc.startekinfo.com/epc/login.jsp
Last time I worked on a M271 I broke the cam position sensor off the front.
Had to use this fancy OEM tool to remove it.
more pics
https://mbworld.org/g/album/287680
I used to have free access to StarTek to look up part numbers but they changed it to $75/year
http://epc.startekinfo.com/epc/login.jsp
Last time I worked on a M271 I broke the cam position sensor off the front.
Had to use this fancy OEM tool to remove it.
more pics
https://mbworld.org/g/album/287680
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lenlen (10-14-2018)
04-26-2016, 04:09 PM
#4
Your going to want to buy the whole adjuster(s). What happens is the tension spring inside either wears out or it breaks internally. It causes the timing to be off and throws codes. If it truly "jumped" the sprocket, you need to align the timing marks and if one is within spec and the other is not, its the cam adjusters. If both are off it could be a stretched chain, but not likely on that engine.
05-04-2016, 04:59 PM
#5
Super Member
Juan,
This sounds EXACTLY like the issue I had with my M271 engine on 05 C230K back nearly 2 years ago. Mine was about ~33 miles shy of 100K miles. My thread below:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...limp-mode.html
Cliff notes version: My car jumped timing due to stretched chain and horribly worn out cam adjuster sprockets due to the loose chain.
Resolution: installed new used engine.
Crossing my fingers I'm wrong with your situation.
Cintoman
This sounds EXACTLY like the issue I had with my M271 engine on 05 C230K back nearly 2 years ago. Mine was about ~33 miles shy of 100K miles. My thread below:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...limp-mode.html
Cliff notes version: My car jumped timing due to stretched chain and horribly worn out cam adjuster sprockets due to the loose chain.
Resolution: installed new used engine.
Crossing my fingers I'm wrong with your situation.
Cintoman
05-04-2016, 06:15 PM
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
M271 it's a well known issue. The chain stretches by up to one full link. This changes the pitch and causes wear on the gear. Eventually the tensioner reaches the end of its travel and the chain jumps a few teeth. There is only one fix. That is 2 new gears A new chain and tensioner. Do not re align the gears with the old chain to do a compression test.. you risk it jumping again causing more damage. Rather do a Cyl leakage test. In my experience doing many of these repairs 90% of the time it does not bend valves.
05-19-2016, 07:35 PM
#7
Hi sorry I took so long to get back.
I found a company in South Africa that makes a kit to replace the worn out sprockets by using the guts from the originals. It was $560 with shipping. Now I have to pray the guts are not cracked like I've read in other posts.
I was able to verify that the exhaust valves are not bent by loosening the exhaust manifold and putting air into the cylinder. unfortunately the intake valves I can't be sure because is hard to hear the air coming out through the supercharger and since the whole thing is out of time I can't totally seal each cylinder.
I'm going to pull off both cams and pressurerized the cylinders to see if the intake valves are bent. I really don't want to take the head off.
I was able to inspect the crankshaft sprocket with an inspection camera and it seems acceptable. I don't see any heavy wear. So the plan is to replace the cam sprockets and the chain.
My big question? Can the chain guides be replaced without having to take off the front cover. I was hoping to string the chain around the crankshaft sprocket using the old one without taking the front cover off. Can this be done and if so how. Thanks for your help.
I found a company in South Africa that makes a kit to replace the worn out sprockets by using the guts from the originals. It was $560 with shipping. Now I have to pray the guts are not cracked like I've read in other posts.
I was able to verify that the exhaust valves are not bent by loosening the exhaust manifold and putting air into the cylinder. unfortunately the intake valves I can't be sure because is hard to hear the air coming out through the supercharger and since the whole thing is out of time I can't totally seal each cylinder.
I'm going to pull off both cams and pressurerized the cylinders to see if the intake valves are bent. I really don't want to take the head off.
I was able to inspect the crankshaft sprocket with an inspection camera and it seems acceptable. I don't see any heavy wear. So the plan is to replace the cam sprockets and the chain.
My big question? Can the chain guides be replaced without having to take off the front cover. I was hoping to string the chain around the crankshaft sprocket using the old one without taking the front cover off. Can this be done and if so how. Thanks for your help.
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05-19-2016, 10:33 PM
#8
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2005 C230K SS
Hi sorry I took so long to get back.
I found a company in South Africa that makes a kit to replace the worn out sprockets by using the guts from the originals. It was $560 with shipping. Now I have to pray the guts are not cracked like I've read in other posts.
I was able to verify that the exhaust valves are not bent by loosening the exhaust manifold and putting air into the cylinder. unfortunately the intake valves I can't be sure because is hard to hear the air coming out through the supercharger and since the whole thing is out of time I can't totally seal each cylinder.
I'm going to pull off both cams and pressurerized the cylinders to see if the intake valves are bent. I really don't want to take the head off.
I was able to inspect the crankshaft sprocket with an inspection camera and it seems acceptable. I don't see any heavy wear. So the plan is to replace the cam sprockets and the chain.
My big question? Can the chain guides be replaced without having to take off the front cover. I was hoping to string the chain around the crankshaft sprocket using the old one without taking the front cover off. Can this be done and if so how. Thanks for your help.
I found a company in South Africa that makes a kit to replace the worn out sprockets by using the guts from the originals. It was $560 with shipping. Now I have to pray the guts are not cracked like I've read in other posts.
I was able to verify that the exhaust valves are not bent by loosening the exhaust manifold and putting air into the cylinder. unfortunately the intake valves I can't be sure because is hard to hear the air coming out through the supercharger and since the whole thing is out of time I can't totally seal each cylinder.
I'm going to pull off both cams and pressurerized the cylinders to see if the intake valves are bent. I really don't want to take the head off.
I was able to inspect the crankshaft sprocket with an inspection camera and it seems acceptable. I don't see any heavy wear. So the plan is to replace the cam sprockets and the chain.
My big question? Can the chain guides be replaced without having to take off the front cover. I was hoping to string the chain around the crankshaft sprocket using the old one without taking the front cover off. Can this be done and if so how. Thanks for your help.
It will be much easier to run the new chain with the cams removed, ie all valves closed. Just attach new chain to the old and turn the crank. You're taking the cams off anyway...
10-14-2018, 04:44 PM
#9
I'm guessing you saw these complete units at ~$700/each http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/200...ming_unit.html
I used to have free access to StarTek to look up part numbers but they changed it to $75/year
http://epc.startekinfo.com/epc/login.jsp
Last time I worked on a M271 I broke the cam position sensor off the front.
Had to use this fancy OEM tool to remove it.
more pics
https://mbworld.org/g/album/287680
I used to have free access to StarTek to look up part numbers but they changed it to $75/year
http://epc.startekinfo.com/epc/login.jsp
Last time I worked on a M271 I broke the cam position sensor off the front.
Had to use this fancy OEM tool to remove it.
more pics
https://mbworld.org/g/album/287680
I have a M271.941 engine in a W211.042 (E200).
I need to replace the intake camshaft adjuster, can anyone confirm the correct way to remove it?
Following the attached instructions, I have tried holding the camshaft using a wrench on the flats (instead of the proper MB tool 271 589 00 61 00) and turned the large nut (27 I think) on the front of the camshaft adjuster. But it is extremely tight, so tight that I stopped before something snapped.
Is it normally this tight?
Is there a locking pin that needs to be removed first?
Last edited by lenlen; 10-14-2018 at 04:46 PM.
10-15-2018, 09:19 PM
#10
Super Member
I remember that nut being very tight, your PDF mentions 90N/m (66 ft/lbs) which sounds about right.
There was not a locking pin on my c230 coupe
I remember we took the gear off the cam, but this was like 10 years ago
There was not a locking pin on my c230 coupe
I remember we took the gear off the cam, but this was like 10 years ago
10-15-2018, 11:50 PM
#11
Super Member
If I think that a bolt is tight, or might take too much force to try to get it off, I hit it with heat.
I suggest using MAPP gas with the flexible hose end, so that you can properly heat around the area, without tilting the bottle.
Something like the following:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzoma...1470/301692503
Good Luck!
I suggest using MAPP gas with the flexible hose end, so that you can properly heat around the area, without tilting the bottle.
Something like the following:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzoma...1470/301692503
Good Luck!
10-16-2018, 08:17 AM
#12
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335i
Sure on suspension or frame parts, but maybe not high speed, high quality machining/metals, you'll risk warping or changing the metal structure (and thereby it's properties).
We took basically that whole top end off with nothing but elbow grease, and at times, admittedly, too much.
I don't recall it being all that bad, but as ambit says, it was a decade ago. Those are my grubby mitts in the picture, and farther up a horror jig of my design.
10-21-2018, 12:48 PM
#13
Thanks for the replies.
I took the camshafts out and used an impact wrench to open the center bolt on the camshaft adjuster/sprocket. Was relatively easy with the right tools, the camshafts were straightforward to remove and install.
I was surprised that the intake camshaft sprocket was worn so much more than the exhaust. Some teeth were nearly complete gone on the intake sprocket but the exhaust sprocket looked fine. I was tempted not to change the exhaust sprocket it looked so good.
I took the camshafts out and used an impact wrench to open the center bolt on the camshaft adjuster/sprocket. Was relatively easy with the right tools, the camshafts were straightforward to remove and install.
I was surprised that the intake camshaft sprocket was worn so much more than the exhaust. Some teeth were nearly complete gone on the intake sprocket but the exhaust sprocket looked fine. I was tempted not to change the exhaust sprocket it looked so good.
10-06-2020, 04:37 AM
#14
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C200
C 200 timing chain
I have a 2005 c230 1.8 compressor (M271). The car was bought new the first two oil changes were done at the dealer. The rest of the maintenance I've done myself. I've used Mobil 1 synthetic European spec oil for Mercedes vehicles and oem Mercedes oil filter bought from the dealer.
The car has 145000 miles it was running fine and then it felt like it went into limp mode. It had thrown a cam sensor error but once I shut it down and restarted it was behaving normal. It ran fine for two more days, I went to start it and it would crank but not start. No weird noises or anything just no start.
I checked both cam sensor and both were working correctly. I could not trouble shoot the crankshaft sensor because its location there was no way of testing it so I bought another one and put it in still no start.
The engine sounded like it had no compression as it turned. I went ahead and took the valve cover off to look at the chain. It had jumped time. I still haven't been able to verify if there are any valves bent since it jumped during a start and I'm able to turn the engine by hand and do not feel any interference.
The main problem that I have is that the cam sprockets appear worn. I've looked for replacements and they wan $700 dollars for the cam adjusters. I'm trying to find out if the cam sprockets can be bought separate or is the whole cam adjuster has to be bought.
I can't believe that I have to spend $1400 just on the cam sprockets not counting all the other stuff that needs to be bought to get this engine back running. I understand that timing chains stretch and need to be replace but to consider the sprockets a wear item and to charge $700 a piece for them is highway robbery. I certainly didn't expect a Mercedes to have a catastrophic engine failure at 145000 miles when Hyundai's are making it to the 200000 mark in one piece.
The car has 145000 miles it was running fine and then it felt like it went into limp mode. It had thrown a cam sensor error but once I shut it down and restarted it was behaving normal. It ran fine for two more days, I went to start it and it would crank but not start. No weird noises or anything just no start.
I checked both cam sensor and both were working correctly. I could not trouble shoot the crankshaft sensor because its location there was no way of testing it so I bought another one and put it in still no start.
The engine sounded like it had no compression as it turned. I went ahead and took the valve cover off to look at the chain. It had jumped time. I still haven't been able to verify if there are any valves bent since it jumped during a start and I'm able to turn the engine by hand and do not feel any interference.
The main problem that I have is that the cam sprockets appear worn. I've looked for replacements and they wan $700 dollars for the cam adjusters. I'm trying to find out if the cam sprockets can be bought separate or is the whole cam adjuster has to be bought.
I can't believe that I have to spend $1400 just on the cam sprockets not counting all the other stuff that needs to be bought to get this engine back running. I understand that timing chains stretch and need to be replace but to consider the sprockets a wear item and to charge $700 a piece for them is highway robbery. I certainly didn't expect a Mercedes to have a catastrophic engine failure at 145000 miles when Hyundai's are making it to the 200000 mark in one piece.
Hey mate, just wondering if you could resolve the issue by replacing the camshaft adjusters and timing chain ? I am also facing tbe same issue and seems like no compression.
10-06-2020, 12:57 PM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
Shyam,
I saw adjusters on ebay a few years ago, for something like $350 (China-made obv.)
You could try to insert a borescope through spark plug openings and inspect the pistons and valves first.
I saw adjusters on ebay a few years ago, for something like $350 (China-made obv.)
You could try to insert a borescope through spark plug openings and inspect the pistons and valves first.
10-06-2020, 04:18 PM
#16
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C200
C 200 timing chain
Thanks for the advice. I have already ordered adjusters and timing chain. I think the loss of compression is due to misalignment of timing , however wanted to make sure if someone had the same situation and fixed it by only replacing adjusters and timing chain. I could see oil in 3rd cylinder. Will check the cylinders and valves using inspection camera.
