MBreezy

Im sure this will be a excellent exhaust but that price tag is pretty steep, is that set in stone? any discounts for forum members?

TB5...

3200 $ after market exhaust systems in the recession... nice.

Robbio204

So we get both for $3200...lol...

peabers

I'd pay $1600 for one! Anyone want to share the other?

IND

Although many exhaust manufacturers use dyno graphs to determine the performance values of their exhaust systems, the data published is rarely reliable or repeatable, and is not a good gauge of exhaust system performance.

Variances in ambient temperature, barometric pressure, the type of cooling fan used, the correction factor used, the type of dynamometer used in testing, and so many other factors can change dyno data, and rob the user of the precise information needed to make an educated buying decision.

Eisenmann GmbH instead chooses to publish specific flow data obtained during real life road testing, for each of their performance exhaust systems. By measuring the flow efficiency of the OEM muffler, as well as Eisenmann's system for that car, Eisenmann can get repeatable, reliable performance data that better informs car enthusiasts.

Eisenmann's Race exhaust system for the C350 produces a 28% improvement over stock, for a substantial gain in performance! I've included a graph of Eisenmann's flow testing of this exhaust system, which shows the test as it was run from 1st through 4th gear.

PolePosition

I agree! $3200 is a bit steep for an exhaust. +1 on the discount?

Azn_C300

TB5...

28% gain... pretty damn good.

imboom

28% gain in airflow as what the paragraph implies does not mean 28% gain in performance. My GDA turboback gained over 40% in airflow, didn't mean it got 40% more power. :O

Impressive results though. Eisenmann would definitely be my first choice for exhaust, however, the price is a bit too high for my liking.

FrankW

+1 on the first part.

Eisenmann's always been steep. having need to have two muffler sucks too. LOL

would be better if we can see dyno results when it's on the car. whether it be C280/300 or C350.

IND

You're completely correct. The 28% value means that this exhaust system flows 28% better than the comparable OEM sections.

The other thing to consider is that this exhaust system replaces quite a bit of the OEM exhaust. Because this exhaust includes a rear muffler, connecting pipes, as well as a center resonator or x pipe (depending on if it's a race or a sport), this 28% improvement covers all of these sections.


As another example, Eisenmann's Race exhaust for the E92 M3 showed a 32% improvement in flow over the stock rear muffler section. Although the OEM rear muffler is only a small portion of the whole exhaust, this translated to a 16 wheel horsepower gain during our dyno testing at Fall Line motorsports. Although every dyno result will vary, this does show that even an Eisenmann system that upgrades only the rear muffler provided very substantial gains.

Please follow this link to see more info about our testing of the E92 M3:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/02/19/ei...2-m3-dyno-day/



In any case, this 28% improvement will translate into a very substantial performance gain over stock, especially considering that this system replaces so much of the OEM exhaust.


I hope I wasn't rambling on too much there, but I really try to disclose all possible variables and facts when discussing the performance of our exhaust systems!

tanktube67

+^1

2tonOfun

Many times an increase in flow rate with an exhaust system can result in a higher "peak" hp but also a loss in torque.

$3,200.00

IND

This is a common misconception. A better flowing exhaust system will increase power and torque simultaneously. Horsepower is a function of torque, and therefore a gain in horsepower can't really come with a loss in torque. Some modifications will move the powerband, causing a loss in low end power with a gain in high end power, but the claim that a loss of power can result from reduced backpressure or increased flow is incorrect.

When designing exhaust systems, it's important to balance two key factors: exhaust flow velocity, and exhaust flow volume. The intended goal is always to evacuate as much exhaust gas from the combustion chamber as possible, to provide room for a clean intake charge in the next intake stroke, and even to possibly introduce a scavenging effect that will "force" intake air into the combustion chamber.

A high flow velocity will help to evacuate exhaust gasses. A high flow volume will do this also. The issue is, to increase flow volume, you increase piping size. To increase flow velocity, you reduce piping size. As you increase piping size, flow volume increases, but flow velocity decreases. As you decrease piping size, flow velocity might increase, but flow volume will decrease. So of course there is an ideal balance for each engine, and this balance is different for each engine based on it's volumetric efficiency, target operating range in terms of RPM, etc... Of course there are other factors involved, and this is a highly simplified version of things, but that's the basic rule. At the extreme end, a 6" pipe would reduce flow velocity to such a degree that power loss would occur, while a 1/4" pipe would reduce flow volume to such a degree that power loss would also occur.

This is how the "too much flow is bad" myth got started. Too little flow velocity is bad. More exhaust flow will mean more power every time, all other factors being equal.

Of course, there are many other factors to consider, and I'm by no means an expert in exhaust systems engineering, I just know a few things.

For this exact reason IND chooses not to design or manufacture their own exhaust systems, but rather trust the expert engineers at Eisenmann GmbH. Who better to design your exhaust system than the same engineer who designed the system for McLaren's SLR or the W204 C63?

2tonOfun

Well, you obviously know a lot about exhaust systems and I am just speaking from some limited personal experiance with both NA and FI V8 motors, and you sort of made my point (which maybe should have been "some times" rather then "many times") about more flow (ie larger diameter tubing or less back pressure) wil result in less exhaust gas velosity which can result in less scavanging. However, if the system is restrictive to begin with, then more flow will be better.
I have seen an increase in hp and decrease in torque by opening up either the intake or exhaust side of ports too much and by using less restrictive exhaust systems on motors.
I'm not saying that this would be the case with this system.
My only point was that rather then quoting higher flow rates, dyno results would be a lot more convincing when trying to sell a $3,200.00 cat back!

I recently had a custom catback system built, mostly of SS 3" tubing with mandrel bends, including mufflers, X pipe, hangers and chrome tips for abot $500.00.

I'm just saying.

Savage c-300

WOW. Thats a lot of good info. The only thing I thought when I saw pictures was... "DAMN THATS SWEEET LOOKING!"

PolePosition

Interesting that all questions or concerns are addressed by the OP with lengthy explanations, charts, etc. except for the one that asks if there is any discounts for forum members I guess that question is not important.

imboom

I think I speak for most of us when I say this is a beautifully made exhaust, but it's the price that's what makes people restrain from buying this system.

Why would a W219 Eisenmann exhaust system cost $2400, and the W204 system cost $3200? How do you justify an extra $800. I understand the w204 platform is new, but the difference between a w204(non C63) and a W219 is almost twice the price. $2400 on a $71,000 and up car is easier to justify to someone who wants an quality exhaust system compared to $3200 on a $35,000 car. Demographics is just plain different. Remember, a single muffler w203 Eisenmann exhaust retails just under $1250. If it's because it's new and we're paying for "initial R&D" costs then great, I'd gladly wait.

Count me in dyno numbers too. Dyno numbers are results from the exhaust on the car. Flow numbers are basically numbers off the exhaust in a blower machine.

Rick Hunter

While I will vouch for Eisenmann's excellence in exhaust systems (I've got one on my other whip), I'm quite certain very few will spring for the system for our W204s, regardless of justification. Pricing may or may not be on target with R&D, etc. etc. but it's not making business sense.

Said with respect, of course.

FrankW

+1.

i for one is pretty happy with just x-pipe and custom quad tips since i'm not looking to gain that much extra performance compare to my w203.

IND

I completely understand your concerns about price. With the C350 being a lower priced car than a C63, for instance, people's budget sizes must be scaled back accordingly.

My honest response is that IND as a company has very little control over the pricing structure. In a way, Eisenmann doesn't have much control either. Many factors are fixed, like the price of stainless steel, the Euro to US Dollar exchange rate, shipping costs from Germany to the US, the amount they pay their employees (vs the amount that a company that manufactures in Taiwan, Korea, or China might pay) and so on.

All of us at IND considered that this pricing was higher than some of our competitors, but we are confident that you get quite a bit of exhaust system for the money. A hand built exhaust system, engineered by quality people, that is built at the same facility as the C63 system is still something to be proud of.

Although I know that more people would buy the exhaust at a lower price, I do know that the people that do purchase the exhaust system will be more than satisfied.

MB_AMG

Does it fit a C350 4Matic? It should since the exhaust has nothing to do with 4matic, but just want to double check!

IND

Final Production photos Eisenmann C350 Race Performance 4x120x77mm Oval tips.

ulovemybenzo

sound clip? mbworld gb sp price?

weehyung87

So in order to have this quad exhaust installed, you have to get the OEM C63 rear bumper?

How much did it cost??