Tmarquiz84

I drive a 2009 C350 and everything was working fine. Nothing was wrong with it. Today I parked it in front of my In-law's house for a few hours. When I got back in the car to start it, nothing happened. It did exactly what was mentioned in the other posts. Lights turn on, dash turns on, I can turn on the radio. The windows wont roll down and the car wont start at all. the Steering column is locked.
I bought the car used at Acura of Fremont here in California. I was wondering since I bought their extended warranty, will it cover the cost? Can I take it to a MB dealer? My car has less than 70k miles.

codeblue5007

You may be in luck with the extended warranty. MB will have to do the work if it's the EIS or ESL.

Moto_Guzzi

If you dont hear the WHIRLL sound when you insert the key, it might be the lock and relatively cheap to the EIS as was in my case.Good luck with this old problem.
By now Mercedes should know which subcontractor manufactured the faulty units.

Mjtierra

I'm gonna try to get MBUSA to help me with my services charges. with the history of the problem I think it's worth a try.

Tmarquiz84

What lock? OH! update. so I went back to my car, tried turning the wheel a bit while turning the key and it started!! Turned the car off and on several times and it was starting like nothing had ever happened. Then I parked in front of a vape shop right by my house and hung out for a bit. When I went back to my car.....once again the same thing.:mad
Now its just sitting in the lot. luckily the guys at the shop says its pretty safe there and that they sometimes leave there car there. Im gonna call mercedes tow service tomorrow to have it towed to the Autobahn in Belmont. I'll update after.

Zodwraith

My pregnant wife and 3 year old daughter were stranded in a 95 degree parking lot today for an hour thanks to MB's security "feature". Just ticked 100k miles and we were actually shopping for a new M class with the new baby on the way. After coming here and reading this I'm absolutely livid. This car has been 1. the most money I've spent on a car, and 2. the absolute worst car I've ever owned.

Faulty Comand knob? Yup.
Constant issues with the taillights? Check. That only took half a decade to recall.
TPMS system that pings every start even though I've replaced the sensors? Oh yeah.
2 front windows that don't auto wind and refuse to accept reprogramming? Got that too.
Thermostat failure that kept me from passing emissions? 300 freaking dollars for just the part.
Today? Total catastrophic failure to even work as a car. Now to come here and discover I'm likely SOL? This is the type of support I'd expect from GM, not MB.

I hate to be the defeatist rage quitter but I'm done. The only reason they recalled on the taillights is because it can actually ignite the car and kill someone getting them heavily sued. Will it take a pregnant woman being stranded in the desert and lose her baby and getting the sh*t sued out of them to make them acknowledge that this is an issue? If you're going to have a security feature that's capable of making the vehicle completely unusable you better make DAMN sure it works properly so you're not punishing your customers more than thieves.

Now to see that my 4matic is prone to self destruction I'm getting rid of this horrible car as fast as I can when I'm done getting reamed for another $1300+

Sorry MB but you're not the superior car maker. Even Ford spent 2bil recalling Firestone's failed tires which weren't even that bad just to protect their reputation. No M class for me now and I'll go out of my way to tell others stay away from MB cause they need another decade to figure out what a luxury vehicle should be. At the very least, one that actually works as a vehicle.

Moto_Guzzi

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$
Where was your car manufactured, my C350 was at East London south Africa plant.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I have to agree with you, no more Mercedes Benz ever for me, I already bought another brand to replace them and very happy.
I bougt a B170 + C350 AMG + Advance Suspention Package. The B170 had a noisy 1700 petrol motor, was stable running and a very underated car, much more space inside than the C350. The reason I sold the B170 was it had a body/frame problem on right hand side. On cold days I can open close both dors without a problem. On warm days the front door scratch off the paint on rear door and vice versa. The dealer had a loooong story, so I got rid of it, some welding joints loose or not done.
Sold as new....End of this one.
C350...It ran perfectly for 1st 2000Km, then it starts to refuse to start, it cranks but no start, always after warmed trips, I had to pull out key and reinsert it. They replace L5 crank sensor. After that it always started altough at verious amounts of turnover up until today. Then it eats up both front tyres on inside that the metal threads came out. I had to replace both before I could take it for 1st service. I gave them one, they say front bushes were faulty, but refused to pay for tyres. After that it shows engine light at home, after two callouts the 2nd tech lift off the aircleaner and it flies at his face=Loose.He seated it properly, problem solved. Then it develops the noise at startup. then it develop suspention problems on gravel road or ripples road=They replaced a control box. Then after a service, after about 4 starts it dropped me stone dead in a parking lot=They had the car for a month and replaced the stearing lock, drama as I must prove ownership, and I bought it from them. After that the noise on startup was softer and it runs well. They later replaced the gearbox oil on my request at 55 000Km.
Then towards the end of guarantee the discs brakes were replaced, as well as rear bushes etc. it was running well now. I had the gearbox oil replaced again at 95 000km but had to pay for it, no problem.
They damaged a front plate underneath when they replaced the bushes ,..on their cost.
I kept money aside to maintain it at my cost, and at each break will decide to scrap it or not. It has a beautifull shape ride soft and well at the moment. I replace the engine oil at every 5000Km no problem, the easiest job on the planet, the gearbox at every 50 000km, the other fluids I must still investigate, hopefully it can make 300 000km. I had the engine & gearbox oil samples analized and it passed.

$$$$$$$$$ M E R C $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ MAZDA $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Reliability aspect compared in real practical examples, not reviews by media experts....
I compare this C350 of myne with another vehicle I own up to 250 000km for reliability.
I bought a Mazda 1600 pickup in 1998. I had it for its 1st service, then the mechanic forgot to put in the drain plug
after draining the oil, put new oil in, it just runs out into a dirty container. As I caught him wanting to put
that oil back in. I rushed and stop him. Ok they then fill it correctly from new supply. That was a turning point.
I maintained this vehicle myself and it runned faultlessly up to 250 000Km when a rubber CV joint seal broke.
I own it still today, engine running perfectly at 270 000km. The oil=shell Helix Ultra 5W-40.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I felt that I was never allowed by Mercedes Benz to experience that WOW feeling as on their advertisements and they are extremely arrogant should you differ with them in any way. I also had to spoonfed the dealer with everything spoon for spoon, if I dont say, they just reset and keep quiet. Mercedes has a lot to look at their inside to live practically up to the standards the advertisements makes a potential buyer believes what he is buying. I think some of they new shapes went haywire and will pass.

Bluehardtail

For those who have asked if the EIS/ESL "Mercedes" failure affected 2010s---I can answer that--YES! I just went through roughly $2,0000 worth of repair regret with the local dealer. I Have only owned the car about 8 months and it was out of warranty 2months when this happened. I was asked whether I had bought the car new. I still don't know what the hell that has to do with Mercedes being responsible for replacing a known faulty part. Instead--Mercedes would rather beat around the bush and gladly charge the customer for THEIR mistake. I have never dealt with a more arrogant company in my life. I will be trading this embarrassment of a car in on a BMW or a Jag. I have had good luck with both. My wife just liked the looks of the c class (no class!)! This forum is proof that they really couldn't care less.
Good luck to the rest of you.

Zodwraith

So I switched to another dealership because MB of salt lake city has never been fun to work with. I was surprised MB agreed to flatbed the car to a farther dealer no questions. Total cost for jacking up, dolly out, flatbed, $0. Issue was indeed the esl. Mercedes gave me no flak over ownership paperwork and accepted just my registration. Took 4 days for the part to arrive. Went to pick it up and they'd even washed and vacuumed the car. Total out the door? $833. Far less than I've seen most here pay. If you're in the salt lake area avoid MB of SLC and drive down to Mercedes of Lindon.

Zodwraith

On a side note I did in fact end up trading in on an ml350, black on black. Research showed far less common issues than these Cs. First few weeks and I love this suv. We'll see if it proves more reliable.

Bluehardtail

Not me---why would I give them more business after they didn't take responsibility for such a common problem. The whole bill should've been $0. I'll never own another Mercedes product. I also don't turn the other cheek!

chunkyhao

Just had this repaired on my '08 C350 as well. Stealership said I had to have the EIS and ESL replaced, and it cost me $1,700. I urge everyone to file a complaint with the NHTSA. www.nhtsa.gov. If they receive enough claims, they will investigate and possibly issue a recall. And, if a recall is issued, we can get reimbursed for the repair.

Bluehardtail

Mine was close to $2,000! Everyone here should file! I know I did! Sorry to hear about your car, Chunkyhao. No one should have to pay for this. I can't believe MB is getting away with this! I am still furious about it. I traded mine in this weekend on a BMW 335xi.

IGB

First of all, welcome to the board. Too bad it started out under such circumstances... Hopefully it is upwards from here for you...

Second, I should add the fact that $1700 is definitely above and beyond what both the EIS, the ESL replacement parts, as well as the orange key to code the new ignition key, and including labor charges for the entire job... So if you can redact all personal information out of your service order, and post the final paid bill for us to see, we might be able to guide you as to where you were overcharged (if you were overcharged).

Other than that, and for your own sake, stop hoping and expecting a recall. For one, this is not a safety issue. While the NHTSA will accept your submission of a complaint form if you do complete one, it gets posted on their website and, in this case, that is the end of it.

To further clarify this, it should be noted that what everybody keeps referring to as a (plain) "recall" is actually not so plain. It is more accurately referred to as a "safety recall". I refer you to this "Recall FAQ" document from the same NHTSA website that you linked: http://www.safercar.gov/staticfiles/...ecalls-FAQ.pdf

The first paragraph states:

WHAT IS A RECALL?

When a manufacturer or the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration determines that a car or item of motor vehicle equipment creates an unreasonable risk to safety or fails to meet minimum safety standards, the manufacturer is required to fix that car or equipment. That
can be done by repairing it, replacing it, offering a refund (for equipment), or (in rare cases) repurchasing the car.

Compare the GM Ignition recall to this issue here and you might begin to understand the difference. The GM Recall is about a pin that is supposed to lock the ignition switch in the "ON" position, and when that pin fails to perform as designed, the actual ignition (and in cases where it might get bumped or if it has a heavy key ring in ti) it might tend to spin while the vehicle is running, and if it spins in the wrong direction, meaning in the direction where it might turn the car off, the engine is off, power brakes no longer work, power steering is no longer operable, and the common result has been an accident, with injury or death to the occupants. THAT, is a safety issue related recall which, as the definition goes, has resulted in injury or death.

Now, let us look at the MB situation. How many people have been injured as a result? How many have died in an accident where the cause was this ignition/steering part that failed? Thankfully, the answer to both is NONE!

Furthermore, has this issue ever happened to anyone while they were in motion? The answer there is "NO" as well. So again, the NHTSA will gladly take a complaint from you, and it will get posted on its website. But that is as far as this will go. No recall, and no reimbursement, I am sorry to say.

This simply boils down to being a part that failed, most of these failures occurred at a time when the vehicle was out of manufacturer's warranty. For those few instances where the car was still under warranty, (although I cannot claim I know about every detail) it sounds to me that MB has taken care of the issue at no cost to the car owner.

What also follows is that if you are out of warranty, you have no entitlement to getting anything from MB. If they choose to offer you anything in terms of a discount that might be as low as $1, or as high as the moon, they are doing so as a good will gesture and as good PR, but they are not obligated to.

You can also read the "NHTSA's Process for Issuing a Recall"

The basic idea from that page is as follows:
So while everyone is free to contact the NHTSA or go to their website to report this failure, and assuming that some people are going to do the same thing they did when reporting the tail light failures (i.e. call in one day with a VIN # and then call again a few days later to file another report without a VIN# just to exaggerate the problem), all these reports are going to accomplish is to simply drive down the resale value for these cars.

Now, while keeping in mind that MB USA has sold out of most of their 2008 through 2010 inventory of C-Class vehicles, guess who is going to be impacted the most when the resale value of the C-Class takes a hit because people feel entitled to a lifetime warranty on as expensive a repair job as this turned out to be?

That's right... The ones who will suffer the biggest losses are the C-Class owners who complained about the issue, exaggerated it to epic proportions and offered that they are so grossed out and offended by MB not taking care of an issue that MB does not own (simply because most of these failures occur AFTER the manufacturer's warranty expires).

I realize no one is going to like reading any of this, but seriously folks, stop fooling yourselves into believing that a recall is likely to happen simply because the basic principles that dictate and regulate that a recall can even begin to materialize, or that it is remotely possible, those principles do not exist in this case.

You keep calling it a "common problem" and it is not. Mercedes Benz sold in excess of 250,000 C-Class cars in the United States between 2008 and 2001. You have 50 (may be 60 maximum) documented cases. That is a rate of 0.02%... This does not make it a "common problem".

On what basis? You were a couple of months (who knows how many miles) out of warranty. If they are going to accommodate you with a couple of months out of warranty, then they may have to accommodate with a few months pout of warranty, then they guy who is a year out of warranty starts to complain.. And two years... Until when? What limit?

Fact is, if they were to cover you with two months out, they are screwing the guy who bought and paid for an extended warranty. So they keep it on the level.. You warranty expires on such and such a date, or at 50,000 miles (whichever comes first) then it is expired and you get no entitlement to any coverage under a warranty that has expired.

But don't listen to me, if you feel so strongly that you are owed something, then take 'em to court. You can even sue for courts costs and attorney fees, and if you win, you get those back as well. Problem is you will not win, simply because you are owed nothing! But don't believe me, go talk to an attorney... Try to find one who will take your case. Not even a rookie attorney who is desperate for a case will represent you simply because you have zero entitlement to anything! This is simply part of owning a car. Call it wear and tear, call it mechanical failure, either way, call it what you want... You were out of warranty and MB is not obligated to cover anything for you!

Well, here is a question.... You claim you traded your C-Class in for a BMW 335i, do you have any assurance that BMW will cover your repairs for a major issue such as this when you are out of warranty?

I have owned a BMW before and I can tell you that BMW is extremely generous during the warranty period. Come the end of that warranty, and you will find yourself as far out in the cold as you are feeling now.

You don't believe me? Google "BMW Subframe Issues"... Those problems were spread across the entire 3 series line. And not only 1, 2 or 3 years...Those were spread out all the way from 1999 models through 2006 (after which I lost track because I had sold my BMW by then). In fact if you Google it, you will still see references and complaints all the way up to 2011 and 2012... So stop bragging about buying a BMW...

There is not a manufacturer in the world who will hand over a free $1200 repair job just for the asking. Think about what you are saying....

Lastly, I will offer you the same advice I offered chunkyhao up top. Redact all personal information and post a copy of your final repair bill. The $2000 you keep mentioning had to have included other issues, or you are simply exaggerating the amount. But if you were charged $2000, then there is something wrong and you may have been over charged.

Zodwraith

Which is why I still bought an ml. Once I'd been treated more than fairly by my dealership and ended up paying half of what many have posted I calmed down a bit. (Didn't help having a pregnant wife that was livid, I'm obviously going to blame the source of the problem.)

Although I do disagree that the failure rate is that low. Even my mechanic referred to it as "common". I imagine well over 75% of owners never come to boards such as these when the MB plate carries enough prestige that many with zero knowledge of cars would buy one and likely still have no idea what was actually fixed when they see "esl" on their bill.

The fact that the replacement has a different part number than the original IS what MB is doing about it which is more than is required of them.

Being here is kind of like talking to coworkers about their wives. The only time most people bring it up is when there's a problem so you don't hear about the good times to balance it out. The enjoyment I got out of my c far outweighed the 3-4 problems I had and I love every minute behind the wheel of the ml. If only I could afford an S or any of the AMGs.

chunkyhao

Thanks for the info. I'll post up my invoice when I can later tonight and appreciate the help.

I bought my car brand new back in '08. It's been a great car for me, but this repair is tough for me to accept as simply part of owning a car, especially after reading that a lot of people have experienced this issue. I'm not expecting a lifetime warranty. I've actually had my fair share of $500+ repairs on this car over the years, but none of them were as common of an issue as this one here.

chunkyhao

Here's copies of my invoice from the repair.

https://db.tt/AcnllFrI
https://db.tt/6H1opn6P

Bluehardtail

Here's the invoice. Maybe I was overcharged. Wow- now I feel much better about a Mercedes!! Oh--thank God they covered the burning tail lights! That would've really been over the top. I just happened to look at JD Powers 2014 ratings. 1-Porsche 2-Jaguar-8-BMW(don't confuse this with bragging!)---14- Mercedes Benz. About the invoice--I'm sorry--it was only $1,965.00. Apology accepted.

codeblue5007

You are overlooking an overarching issue here, namely MB's reputation for quality and reliability, and it's relationship to its customers. These are intangibles, but very real over the long run. Mercedes has already lost it's reputation for reliability in the US sometime in the 70s, when it was fumbling around with emission regulations, air conditioning, electric windows and other modern conveniences.


And a Mercedes dealership has been a license to fleece its customers, and they know it. They made sure that whatever discount the cars were selling for in the US was made for with expensive parts and labor. The result is that few people venture to buy a used Mercedes out of warranty. MBUSA is not out to cultivate loyal customers: MBUSA is out to make money.


American car manufacturers generally had the same attitude towards its customers and had a near death experience.

Bluehardtail

Well put, code blue! It sounds as though you speak from experience.

IGB

Actually, I did not over look that. As that would not be referred to as a recall. It would be referred to as "good will" or "PR" both of which I mentioned in my post. And neither is MB nor any other manufacturer under any obligation to provide freebies!

And for each complaint that you might read here, you have several new, up and coming loyal MB customers who might even be more qualified for purchasing something above the MB entry price opening point as far as price is concerned.


The 70's is over 40 years ago... You are not suggesting that what it "had" lost it never regained, are you? Because if you are, then what are you doing driving an MB? What am I missing?

German cars, have always had the reputation of being expensive to maintain and even more expensive to repair. Not only in the 1970's, not only in the 1980's, or 1990's or even 2000's. I have known that fact for my entire life.

BMW offers you free basic maintenance during the warranty period, but anyone believing that they are not paying for that maintenance on the front end of whatever deal they got is only fooling themselves. In other words, if you pay cash, part of that is towards maintenance; if you finance your car, part of your monthly payment goes towards that maintenance; similarly with a lease.

I am not aware of any discounts that MBUSA was selling its cars for in the U.S.A. versus those sold in other countries. Maybe you can shed some more light on this apparent conspiracy.

Yet another guesstimate on your part. In fact, there are a few people in this particular thread who have bought their C-Class after the warranty expired. So you are simply offering your own conclusion by blaming MB for it... One which I think you would be incorrect in making. But even if it was an accurate assessment, this entire thread was based on the invalid assumption that "this issue qualifies for a recall, and shame on MB for not doing so, lets force them into it". Fact is, it doesn't (qualify as a safety recall) and you can't (force them into anything). So this entire thread and each and every complaint and rant that were posted, would further push the C-Class into a category where it has lost resale value and why it became a less desirable vehicle to purchase as "used".

So in other words, MB did nothing to impact the resale value or the desirability of this model to customers. Instead MB owners, and through some attempt to make themselves feel better, are shooting themselves in the foot by continuing to propagate an issue that has no validity or basis. They do that through their having some sort of entitlement to a free $1200 repair job all while they have no legal claim to any of it!!

Fact is, we are here discussing the least expensive MB in their line. This might tends to attract those who never thought they could afford a "German engineered car" but happened across an ad or a listing that made -at least the idea possible-. Someone has stated that the parts that are related to or blamed for this failure, are common in all MB models, and presumably, the failure rate might be similar. And yet here we are in the HUGE forum that is representative of ALL MBs lines/models, and the subject of a recall with regards to this failure is limited to the C-Class subforum. Why do you think this is? Is it because MB's only intent is to screw its C-Class customers? Or is it simply because $1200 might seem like a much heavier burden than it would be to someone driving an S-Class? Furthermore, someone driving an S-Class will likely trade it in much earlier than a C-Class owner, and so this sense of entitlement might tend to fade along with the vehicle getting traded in time and again.

MBUSA, is a part of Daimler Chrysler, a publicly owned corporation that has a fiduciary duty to its shareholders to maximize profits and minimize or better yet, eliminate losses. Conversely, the only duty that they owe their customers is to honor the manufacturer's warranty during that warranty period. Thus far, we have not heard of anyone who's been refused coverage under their warranty provisions.

It recently became known that the GM ignition recall, was actually part of a 10-year management cover-up within that company.... A cover-up and an attitude towards its customers that caused those same customers more than a few injuries and several death experiences.

So I would not use American car manufacturer's as a means to substantiate your implication that MB has left people out in the cold. At least with MB, there is no evidence of a cover-up and there certainly is NOT any related safety issues in their case.

While I am not sure which era in American car manufacturing history you are referring to, I am not aware of any car manufacturer, or any other goods manufacturer, American or foreign, who will cover its customer on a $1200 repair job all while the product is out of its manufacturer's warranty period!

Big Daddy

The w203 and w202 were some of the most unreliable cars ever made. Mercedes reputation took a big hit with those models and when the W204 was released in 2007 they promised the reliability problems had been fixed.
Unfortunately they have not

IGB

I am not being sarcastic, I am simply trying to put things in proper perspective. I am basing my assessment on documented cases where complaints have been filed with the regulatory agency; alternatively, you are basing your assessment on what you imagine to be the case. Moreover, if you were to review some of the complaints that are posted, you will realize that a good number of those complaints are actually duplicates. As an example, someone filed one complaint with a VIN #, a few days later s/he filed the same verbatim complaint only this time, the VIN # is declared as "unavailable"; another example is where someone filed the complaint online, and then repeated (the general description of events leading to the problem are identical) only they filed by calling in and speaking to a rep. And in addition, I over estimated by suggesting 50 or 60.

Whether you agree with my assessment or not, the fact still remains that out of warranty repairs, remain to be the responsibility of the owner, not the manufacturer. And while there are laws that might protect the consumer under some circumstances, none of those apply in any of these cases. One law is related to safety recalls and I briefly touched on why that does not apply in this case, in my previous post. The other laws that apply in cases where a vehicle might experience a mechanical break down are more commonly referred to as "Lemon laws". While those might vary from state to state, the basis behind them still remains to be the same. In my state (California) those law establish that if the manufacturer or its representative, such as an authorized dealer, is unable to service or repair a new motor vehicle to meet the terms of an express written warranty after a reasonable number of repair attempts, the manufacturer is required promptly to replace the vehicle or return the purchase price to the lessee or buyer.

The definition of "reasonable number of attempts" varies depending on the type of failure or the specific circumstances, but in no case do these laws apply when the manufacturer IS able to repair the vehicle, nor do they apply in cases where the vehicle is out of warranty.

So again, I ask you to please explain to me the basis for you feeling that he dealer owes you ANYTHING in the case where you own a vehicle that experiences a breakdown AFTER the manufacturer's warranty has expired, and although extended warranties are offered through the manufacturer, you did not purchase an extended warranty; you want it to get repaired but you are suggesting that you should not have to pay for repairing it!

Which brings me back to your comment:

You see... What you are considering to be as "fair" treatment, is actually completely unfair to those whom you refer to in your same sentence.

"Fair" by definition, means "legitimate, or in accordance with the rules or standards; or without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage". Fact is, there is no rule or standard that suggests that just because a repair bill exceeds a certain amount, that the dealer must offer a discount. And in this case, charging you less than what everybody else has paid is far from being fair. In fact it is unfair.

You can try the alternative by suggesting (like CodeBlue5007 did) that they were allegedly selling vehicles at a discount only to turn around and fleece their customers through higher repair costs, but that won't work either. If you are offered something at a discount, and you never questioned the basis for that alleged discount, then you only have yourself to blame when your repair costs start to accumulate. These vehicles aren't discounted. The happen to represent MBs opening price point. Their entry level vehicles. Their least featured vehicles... No matter what you call it, and in their representative class, they are not cheaper than their counterparts from other makes.

Even if -in your opinion- this would qualify this failure as a defect, reality is it still failed outside of the manufacturer's warranty against defects in material and/or workmanship, and therefore it was not covered. Furthermore, and when these dealers have been presented with these failures, the methods they utilized to repair these failures and get these vehicles back on the road were successful the first time they attempted to repair them.

So you see, no matter how you twist it, it still comes down to the basis that this false sense of entitlement that everyone is feeling around here is causing you to feel as though you're being treated unfairly. And for those feelings, you only have yourselves to blame!

IGB

That is a stretch, a HUGE stretch if I've ever seen a stretch. And you say "were"... And yet, in your profile you state that you drive a CD220, which, if my research has lead me in the right direction, its a W202, which MB released during the 1995-2000 years... And so here is the least reliable car, apparently still running just fine for you to still be able to drive it, 15 to 20 years later. Why am I not convinced of your assessment?

Let me reiterate a point I had made in my reply to CodeBlue5007. The models you mention in your post are ALL MBs opening price point models. Meaning, these are the least expensive, or otherwise described as MBs entry point models. And therefore this reliability index that you are reporting is not necessarily indicative of the quality of MBs entire line, and certainly not representative of what you seem to imply "the most unreliable CAR ever made" (meaning any brand). It only represents the belief of a certain segment of the population.

"Reliability" or "satisfaction" ratings are always subjective. Unless you are surveying a segment of the population that is equally educated, equally affluent, equally informed and equally demographically placed, then you are going to end up with a variety of different issues that your survey has erroneously assessed. I remember German cars were negatively impacted for years through customer satisfaction rating surveys in the U.S. simply because they did not offer cup holders. A feature that was a virtual unknown in Europe, and one that till this day, is still considered as "rubbish" in certain European countries...

And to further justify my point, here you are posting from Australia, where it is possible that a car manufacturer has supplied a particular model that has a completely different supplier for a particular part than those supplied to the same model in other continents. So what might turn out to be grade "A" as far as reliability to you, might be sub-par to someone else.

You are judging the reliability of the entire W204 line by virtue of a 0.02% failure rate regarding that model's ignition switch/steering lock? It actually gets worse... If we were to evenly split this issue into its two distinctive problems, 50% for EIS and 50% for ESL, then were are looking at a failure rate of 0.01%... That, in your opinion, would be a fair assessment to deem MB's entire line of W204, a model that ran for 4 years as being "unreliable"?

Well, lets look at Audi's electrical problems/stuck accelerator problems of the 1970's-80's... BMW subframe problems (amongst several other issues)... Land Rover's transmission problems... Ford's ignition problems/steering column fires/ exploding Pintos /Firestone's tire problems... GM's ignition problems amongst 30 other recent recalls (and by the way, some of the GM recent ignition recalls are related to its models that were made in Australia)... Toyota used to be the top as far as reliability is concerned until.. Ooops... The stuck accelerator problem places it now at the bottom of that list. (And for those who might favor Lexus, those cars are to be included in the Toyota Accelerator problems). Honda used to be even better than Toyota as far as reliability is concerned until... Ooops an Airbag recall has now destroyed that company's ratings. Come to find out from a few days ago, that these defective airbags were also used on Dodge Ram trucks, Ford Mustangs, Subaru Outbacks and Legacys, Toyota Corollas, Nissan Maximas... etc And the list of legendary and memorable defects goes on and on and on...

In all of the afore mentioned cases, the related recalls involved a car manufacturer's entire production of car models, not just one line. And you are here to try and convince me that Mercedes Benz cars are unreliable?

So tell me then, which car manufacturer has been able to make a defect free car?

Better yet, and as far as the same question I have asked everyone, and yet no one has attempted to answer... Which car manufacturer do you think would cover you for a $1200 repair job all while your vehicle is out of warranty?

Remember, "reliability" does not necessarily mean vehicle ownership that is repair bill free, nor does it mean a manufacturer being generous enough to offer free repairs for each and every complaint one might have!

IGB

Let me preface any comment by simply saying that I am only speculating in my responses in this post. I don't have any official MB info but am simply going by what I can find....

That said, you can begin by going to mymercedesparts.com, select your vehicle information from the drop boxes and type in "ignition switch" into the search box that is labelled with: "Part # / Keyword Search" and it should bring up a results page with the 1st and second items listed and described as "2075450208 - ignition SWITCH 2008-11" one without keyless and one with keyless. From there you can see the MSRP price.

Now, just to establish that it can search if you entered a partial name of a part, back up to the screen where you entered the search term above and type in "ignition swit" into the search box and you can see that, yes, it does actually bring up the "switch" part even if you only entered a part of that word.

By looking at your invoice, you can see that the part they replaced is listed as "ignition star"... Type that into the same search box we have used, and click on "Go".... NOTHING. Right?

OK, lets try it another way... Using the same part number that appears on your invoice, "2079057201"... Enter that into the search box and click on Go... And the result I see on my screen states:

"

Part Number "2079057201" was found for Mercedes-Benz , but we could not verify the part fits the selected vehicle. You may still purchase this part below.

"

Hmmmm.... OK. Back up that mymercedesbparts.com to its home screen (where no year/make/model are entered) and again, enter the same part number in the search box and click on Go...

Sure... It comes up with 55 results but if you were to scan through all 55 results (6 pages, I believe), you can see that that particular part number would not fit in a 2008 C350, so why would they order it for your vehicle?

Lets try the other part number they have on your invoice.... "2049005912".

First, enter your car information... "2008"... "Mercedes Benz"... "C350"... And type in the part number in the search box and click "Go"...

And again, the result I see on my screen states:

"

Part Number "2079057201" was found for Mercedes-Benz , but we could not verify the part fits the selected vehicle. You may still purchase this part below.

"

Now, back up that mymercedesbparts.com to its home screen (where no year/make/model are entered) and again, enter the same part number in the search box and click on Go... It brings up 2 pages of results but again, none of which are describing that as a part that fits a 2008 C350.

Next step... (By "schemes", I mean the selections we make from either the drop down menus or from the highlighted links to different parts categories) the schemes we followed were the equivalent of us clicking on each of the listed categories in the order shown below. This would help us establish which part number(s), are in fact those that should have been ordered and used in your vehicle.

For the "Ignition switch" it appears that regardless of which scheme of these two we follow, the end result is the same. But for your purposes, go ahead and try them both...

All Vehicles - 2008 - Mercedes-Benz - C350 - Sport - BODY HARDWARE / INSTRUMENT PANEL / CLUSTER & SWITCHES / Ignition switch

All Vehicles - 2008 - Mercedes-Benz - C350 - Sport - ELECTRICAL / IGNITION SYSTEM / IGNITION LOCK / IGNITION SWITCH

Both of the above routes would lead you to one of two Ignition Switches... One, for vehicles without keyless and one, for vehicles with. You should know whether you have keyless or not and you should then figure out which belongs in your car.

As for the "control module", and by following this scheme:

All Vehicles - 2008 - Mercedes-Benz - C350 - Sport - STEERING COLUMN / STEERING COLUMN / STEERING COLUMN ASSEMBLY / Control module

You should come up with one part number...

It should be noted that the MSRP prices you see on MyMercedesparts.com are not necessarily obligatory, meaning your dealer can charge double that amount if they so choose, and it is up to you to either let them go ahead with the repairs or not. Typically, if you have them do the diagnosis and then decline to allow them to do the repairs, then they are going to charge you the minimum hourly rate for their time while diagnosing (and I think the standard for a diagnosis is to charge 0.8 hours). Otherwise (if they do the repairs) then the diagnosis is included in what the total labor charge for the work they did which is determined based on certain hourly rates that are set by industry standards.

In other words, an oil change is charged at 0.6 hours X the hourly rate that this facility might charge.

A "Lube and filter service" (which includes checking and topping off all fluids) is charged at 0.8 hours X the hourly rate that this facility might charge.

In the case of EIS/ESL, I was able to find the hourly charge for the EIS job, which according to one document I found should add up to total labor charge of 1.2 hours. As for ESL, I found that to run up to 1.8 hours. That said, it is my understanding that replacing one would also give the tech with access to the other, so the two labor charges should overlap and end up adding to a total of less than 3.0 hours. But let us assume they do total 3.0 hours.

Here is a screenshot of the 3 documents/bits of information I was able to come up with:



Your labor charge was $690. Assuming no other work was done on your car, this translates to a charge of ($690/3.0 hours = $230) $230 dollars an hour. And that is beyond excessive for an hourly labor charge. I have seen it here locally (in Los Angeles) as high as $125. And that is -again- on the high end of where these dealers out west charge.

In addition, your page 2 of the scan you posted shows a charge of $39.50 for "Incidental and Environmental" but I have no idea what that is for. While I do see some white space under "Belts" and more white space under "(KIM) TOW IN" (indicating something you had possibly redacted), I am not aware of any reason as to why an EIS/ESL repair job would require an environmental charge. So it might be for another unrelated item that was repaired/replaced.

Last but not least, and in reading the SA's comments, he states the following:

The problem I see in that explanation is underlined. Simply because replacing EIS requires them to order what is called an "Orange Key"... This is the part that is ordered from Texas and is coded based on your vehicle's VIN #. While it is possible that they ordered a package"EIS switch & Orange Key" both of which are now packaged under that 207-905-72-01 number which is described as "Ignition Star" on your invoice, it still leaves the question of why is it that the same number there comes up as inapplicable for your car!

In conclusion, and for all I know (which is very limited) they may have done everything correctly. I do not know. And I am not suggesting you should try and resolve this with them. If it were me, I would certainly make any issue of the discrepancy with the part numbers. It is very odd that they should give you an invoice with parts listed that do not belong/fit to your car.

If you've read this thread in its entirety you would have come across several posts from our Super Moderator, Glyn Ruck who has suggested that more often than not, they are too lazy to test both EIS & ESL but they're more than happy to replace both, even without testing one or both. Of course I doubt that they will retract any of the charges for parts so I think you're not getting anywhere on that end. As for the labor charge, I still feel it is way to high and you are free to try and investigate that issue either through them or through another dealer's service department.

You would be well advised to review the invoices that were posted by both the reidly posted in post #44, as well as that posted by Codeblue5007 in post #125. While both of those only covered one of the two modules you had replaced, they should provide some guidance as far as labor charges are concerned. To make this even more confusing and complicated, you can also read my comments in post #135 with regards to Codeblue's repair invoice.

In conclusion, let me repeat this part one more time: for all I know (which is very limited) they may have done everything correctly. I do not know. It is up to you to further look into this and/or discuss it with them, if you so choose. Either way, good luck!