Kleeman ECU tune, 3.5L C300
05-10-2016, 11:18 AM
#376
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2002 slk 32 amg, 2013 c300 4matic sport
Perfect! The delta from the before and after dyno is all that matters. Not the peak power. I know it disappoints people when they don't see huge numbers but what people really wanna know is, if the tune adds power or not.
I just bought an ISF for myself, so might get the tune if it pans out for the wife's car since now she knows what 400hp feels like
I just bought an ISF for myself, so might get the tune if it pans out for the wife's car since now she knows what 400hp feels like
Last edited by xjaymzzx; 05-10-2016 at 03:51 PM.
05-10-2016, 12:05 PM
#377
Newbie
Very nice increase. Unfortunately now I have no choice but to do the tune. Really appreciate you taking the time and expense to do the dyno. Mind if you divulge what you paid EC for the tune? Also could you please post any charts if you have them?
05-10-2016, 04:13 PM
#378
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2002 slk 32 amg, 2013 c300 4matic sport
I paid $1200 to eurocharged for it. I have chart i can post. Unfortunately no graph or torque cuz they didnt plug in to the tach
05-10-2016, 09:29 PM
#379
Senior Member
Nice, means they are producing as advertised. Unfortunately for us the 4matic is going to have a fair amount of parasitic drivetrain loss. But wife had to have it so looks like this is what she gets. Would be nice to have a supercharger.
05-16-2016, 09:22 AM
#380
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C 300 2014
My Kleemann tune experience
Hi all,
This is my very first post in this forum after I registered at MB world. I drive the w204 c 300 with the m276 engine (2014) and was following this particular thread with great interest. I too was toying with the idea of an ECU tune and after discussing with my MB dealer ( informally of course), shortlisted my candidates to the usual suspects- Renntech, Kleemann and Brabus. Brabus, of course was too expensive and impractical as I did not want to do headers or catbacks etc. That left Renntech and Kleemann. I live in Toronto and called both of their offices in USA and spoke to Cory and the Renntech guy ( forget his name). Renntech was quite categorical stating that all of their tunes for this engine would yield 22 HP gain. I asked him pointedly why, when the same m276 engine was used for both c350 and c300. He could not (or did not want to) give me a technical answer however just said that the 350 will post tune have 306 + 22 and c300 will have 248 + 22.
Kleemann, on the other hand was promising on their website ( we know about it all on this thread) the hotly debated 330 HP for both C300 and C350. Being technically inclined and somewhat of a logical brained person, I thought what they said made sense ( atleast regarding both models will have the same ultimate HP due to them having the exact same engines.. hardware wise. Again in terms of previous dyno test results in this forum or elsewhere, I did not have any.
Long story short, I went ahead and did my ECU upgrade through Kleemann. I parked my car at their local dealer ( a private mechanic) and as promised got the upgraded ECU and my car back on the 3rd day. Cost CAD about $1950 +HST all in -labor and courier( the Canadian dollar since last year has weakened quite a bit against USD- Kleemann USA price is still $1295).
I haven't dyno-ed yet but the feel and driving dynamics are different. If you ask me, personally I have mixed reactions. The acceleration lag is gone and there is definitely more power. I took the car out to the country streets early mornings a couple of times on weekends and clocked 0 to 100kmph times ( 62mph in us). The stock times given by MB is 6.8 seconds for this car. Post-tune I experienced roughly around a 5.6 to 5.8 second acceleration of 0 to 100. Now the caveat to this is I had to use the stopwatch and look at my speedo the same time since I was the lone occupant of the car. This may mean it is less accurate than in a proper track speed setting. However, conservatively, I am confident that there is a real possibility of one full second having been shaven off.
There was one more icing on the cake. One evening an infiniti QX50 (326 hp and rated acceleration of 6.3 s 0 to 100 pulled up next to me on a traffic light and wanted to race me. He could not stay with me even on the first 25 meters and was comprehensively beaten also at the next traffic light. He probably was left shaking his head as to how he could have lost to a c300. ( probably it's time to debadge or put on the Kleemann badging that I got along with the tune. )
Now the downside to all this is the butter smooth slow speed driving is compromised quite a bit. I can now feel a couple of early gear changes quite well while earlier the stock gear changes were an absolute gem. Also a few times I have experienced rpm overruns after I take my foot off the pedal after a sudden kickdown. The gear continues to stay at stay a low gear without shifting back to a higher one for a couple of seconds giving off a scary engine whine. Those are the 2 main issues I have experienced so far after my tune in March( 2 months now).
Hope I have been able to contribute some worthwhile info for the people contemplating a tune by Kleemann or Renntech.
This is my very first post in this forum after I registered at MB world. I drive the w204 c 300 with the m276 engine (2014) and was following this particular thread with great interest. I too was toying with the idea of an ECU tune and after discussing with my MB dealer ( informally of course), shortlisted my candidates to the usual suspects- Renntech, Kleemann and Brabus. Brabus, of course was too expensive and impractical as I did not want to do headers or catbacks etc. That left Renntech and Kleemann. I live in Toronto and called both of their offices in USA and spoke to Cory and the Renntech guy ( forget his name). Renntech was quite categorical stating that all of their tunes for this engine would yield 22 HP gain. I asked him pointedly why, when the same m276 engine was used for both c350 and c300. He could not (or did not want to) give me a technical answer however just said that the 350 will post tune have 306 + 22 and c300 will have 248 + 22.
Kleemann, on the other hand was promising on their website ( we know about it all on this thread) the hotly debated 330 HP for both C300 and C350. Being technically inclined and somewhat of a logical brained person, I thought what they said made sense ( atleast regarding both models will have the same ultimate HP due to them having the exact same engines.. hardware wise. Again in terms of previous dyno test results in this forum or elsewhere, I did not have any.
Long story short, I went ahead and did my ECU upgrade through Kleemann. I parked my car at their local dealer ( a private mechanic) and as promised got the upgraded ECU and my car back on the 3rd day. Cost CAD about $1950 +HST all in -labor and courier( the Canadian dollar since last year has weakened quite a bit against USD- Kleemann USA price is still $1295).
I haven't dyno-ed yet but the feel and driving dynamics are different. If you ask me, personally I have mixed reactions. The acceleration lag is gone and there is definitely more power. I took the car out to the country streets early mornings a couple of times on weekends and clocked 0 to 100kmph times ( 62mph in us). The stock times given by MB is 6.8 seconds for this car. Post-tune I experienced roughly around a 5.6 to 5.8 second acceleration of 0 to 100. Now the caveat to this is I had to use the stopwatch and look at my speedo the same time since I was the lone occupant of the car. This may mean it is less accurate than in a proper track speed setting. However, conservatively, I am confident that there is a real possibility of one full second having been shaven off.
There was one more icing on the cake. One evening an infiniti QX50 (326 hp and rated acceleration of 6.3 s 0 to 100 pulled up next to me on a traffic light and wanted to race me. He could not stay with me even on the first 25 meters and was comprehensively beaten also at the next traffic light. He probably was left shaking his head as to how he could have lost to a c300. ( probably it's time to debadge or put on the Kleemann badging that I got along with the tune. )
Now the downside to all this is the butter smooth slow speed driving is compromised quite a bit. I can now feel a couple of early gear changes quite well while earlier the stock gear changes were an absolute gem. Also a few times I have experienced rpm overruns after I take my foot off the pedal after a sudden kickdown. The gear continues to stay at stay a low gear without shifting back to a higher one for a couple of seconds giving off a scary engine whine. Those are the 2 main issues I have experienced so far after my tune in March( 2 months now).
Hope I have been able to contribute some worthwhile info for the people contemplating a tune by Kleemann or Renntech.
Last edited by MBluvr_TO; 05-16-2016 at 10:33 AM. Reason: typos
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05-25-2016, 01:45 AM
#381
Junior Member
I'm looking into the C300 (and the only reason I'm looking into it) is because of the alleged tuning capability. I'm so disillusioned by the lack of information that I almost want to buy the car, dyno, tune, and dyno just to get to the bottom of this thing! That said, I honestly don't even want the car if I can't get the extra HP out of it.
Anyone else have success with the Kleemann tune or Eurocharged tune? So far, MBluvr_TO is the only person to provide a somewhat detailed analysis of the tune albeit without dyno numbers. Interested in the car. Interested in the tune. That said, I need more than heresay. Anyone else in the three whole years this tune has been available find positive/negative results with hardcore evidence?
Anyone else have success with the Kleemann tune or Eurocharged tune? So far, MBluvr_TO is the only person to provide a somewhat detailed analysis of the tune albeit without dyno numbers. Interested in the car. Interested in the tune. That said, I need more than heresay. Anyone else in the three whole years this tune has been available find positive/negative results with hardcore evidence?
Last edited by SnazzyLabs; 05-25-2016 at 01:47 AM.
05-25-2016, 06:13 PM
#383
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2008 C350 Eurocharged
I have a Eurocharged tune on my 2008 and it was worth every penny! The car is much more responsive, downshifts aren't nearly as wonky and it feels more powerful overall.
I didn't get it tuned for more power, so not sure how much I gained, but just for the driving improvement alone it was worth it.
I didn't get it tuned for more power, so not sure how much I gained, but just for the driving improvement alone it was worth it.
05-25-2016, 10:17 PM
#384
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2002 slk 32 amg, 2013 c300 4matic sport
I'm looking into the C300 (and the only reason I'm looking into it) is because of the alleged tuning capability. I'm so disillusioned by the lack of information that I almost want to buy the car, dyno, tune, and dyno just to get to the bottom of this thing! That said, I honestly don't even want the car if I can't get the extra HP out of it.
Anyone else have success with the Kleemann tune or Eurocharged tune? So far, MBluvr_TO is the only person to provide a somewhat detailed analysis of the tune albeit without dyno numbers. Interested in the car. Interested in the tune. That said, I need more than heresay. Anyone else in the three whole years this tune has been available find positive/negative results with hardcore evidence?
Anyone else have success with the Kleemann tune or Eurocharged tune? So far, MBluvr_TO is the only person to provide a somewhat detailed analysis of the tune albeit without dyno numbers. Interested in the car. Interested in the tune. That said, I need more than heresay. Anyone else in the three whole years this tune has been available find positive/negative results with hardcore evidence?
09-04-2016, 02:00 AM
#386
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ML 350 4matic (Petrol), MUL Esteem LXi, Prior: FIAT 1100D, Studebaker Champion
starting problems - could it be the ECU?
Hi, My 2008 ML 350 has had starting problems recently, we changed the fuel filter and the pump and there are no errors shown but starting is erratic, at times there is an immediate start at other times even 10 cranks won't start with reasonable gaps for the battery to recover. Since there are no error codes, the dealer feels that the ECU is not giving consistent signals to the fuel system and therefore the erratic unpredictable behavior.
I am going to have the ECU checked/reprogrammed in a few days time - has anyone faced this problem - any solution/experience you could share?
I am going to have the ECU checked/reprogrammed in a few days time - has anyone faced this problem - any solution/experience you could share?
09-06-2016, 11:34 AM
#387
Senior Member
NRR,
Hate to break this to you but not only are you in the wrong sub forum for C class, you are also in a thread about performance tuning which has nothing to do with your post. I would recommend that you start a new thread in the ML section after you do a bit of searching using the search feature on your specific ML sub forum. Not trying to be difficult just making sure you can get answers to your questions, it won't come on this thread or sub forum. Good luck
Hate to break this to you but not only are you in the wrong sub forum for C class, you are also in a thread about performance tuning which has nothing to do with your post. I would recommend that you start a new thread in the ML section after you do a bit of searching using the search feature on your specific ML sub forum. Not trying to be difficult just making sure you can get answers to your questions, it won't come on this thread or sub forum. Good luck
10-11-2016, 06:09 PM
#388
I started reading this thread some months ago to get more info on the tuning. I thought I'd share my experience.
Getting the ECU out is easy once you know how. When the two cables have been removed from the top, the easiest way to get it out is to reach below the ECU and force it up.
Kleemann was the choice. The tuning was done in about 75 minutes. Depending on the actual model of the ECU, they drill a hole in it to reach the circuit board. They put a small rubber plug into the hole afterwards. They also have a more permanent plug, but the rubber plug makes it easier for Kleemann to retune if the software is updated by Mercedes during regular service. The reflash fee is 100 euro, or about 120 dollars if it is needed. Mine was done in their main office in Denmark since I was there for other reasons.
I have driven some longer trips both before and after having the tuning done so I had some data to see if the mpg suffered. All of it done in E mode and not much change in elevation in general.
Before tuning:
300 miles trip Chicago-Cincinnati, where most of the trip was done at 80 mph with cruise control: 31.5 mpg
300 miles (return) trip, where most of the trip was done at 65 mph with cruise control: 34.0 mpg
After tuning:
450 miles trip Pittsburgh-Chicago, where most of the trip was done at 80 mph with cruise control: 28.0 mpg
It is definitely using more gas in general. During 12 miles of rush hour stop-and-go traffic, I can barely make it hit 20 mpg, where it was not that difficult before the tuning. Secondly, the ECO mode seems to be less available after the upgrade than before. All in all, it seems to be more in the 16-28 mpg range now, where it was 20-31 mpg before the tune.
The RPM goes higher to 7000 now, and it does have more power. Does it have the fabled 315 bhp? I don't know. But I do know that the throttle response combined with the added power made it worth the upgrade for me. The car is definitely more fun to drive now.
Getting the ECU out is easy once you know how. When the two cables have been removed from the top, the easiest way to get it out is to reach below the ECU and force it up.
Kleemann was the choice. The tuning was done in about 75 minutes. Depending on the actual model of the ECU, they drill a hole in it to reach the circuit board. They put a small rubber plug into the hole afterwards. They also have a more permanent plug, but the rubber plug makes it easier for Kleemann to retune if the software is updated by Mercedes during regular service. The reflash fee is 100 euro, or about 120 dollars if it is needed. Mine was done in their main office in Denmark since I was there for other reasons.
I have driven some longer trips both before and after having the tuning done so I had some data to see if the mpg suffered. All of it done in E mode and not much change in elevation in general.
Before tuning:
300 miles trip Chicago-Cincinnati, where most of the trip was done at 80 mph with cruise control: 31.5 mpg
300 miles (return) trip, where most of the trip was done at 65 mph with cruise control: 34.0 mpg
After tuning:
450 miles trip Pittsburgh-Chicago, where most of the trip was done at 80 mph with cruise control: 28.0 mpg
It is definitely using more gas in general. During 12 miles of rush hour stop-and-go traffic, I can barely make it hit 20 mpg, where it was not that difficult before the tuning. Secondly, the ECO mode seems to be less available after the upgrade than before. All in all, it seems to be more in the 16-28 mpg range now, where it was 20-31 mpg before the tune.
The RPM goes higher to 7000 now, and it does have more power. Does it have the fabled 315 bhp? I don't know. But I do know that the throttle response combined with the added power made it worth the upgrade for me. The car is definitely more fun to drive now.
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Hiloc (10-21-2016)
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03-07-2017, 11:13 AM
#390
Super Member
Hi all,
This is my very first post in this forum after I registered at MB world. I drive the w204 c 300 with the m276 engine (2014) and was following this particular thread with great interest. I too was toying with the idea of an ECU tune and after discussing with my MB dealer ( informally of course), shortlisted my candidates to the usual suspects- Renntech, Kleemann and Brabus. Brabus, of course was too expensive and impractical as I did not want to do headers or catbacks etc. That left Renntech and Kleemann. I live in Toronto and called both of their offices in USA and spoke to Cory and the Renntech guy ( forget his name). Renntech was quite categorical stating that all of their tunes for this engine would yield 22 HP gain. I asked him pointedly why, when the same m276 engine was used for both c350 and c300. He could not (or did not want to) give me a technical answer however just said that the 350 will post tune have 306 + 22 and c300 will have 248 + 22.
Kleemann, on the other hand was promising on their website ( we know about it all on this thread) the hotly debated 330 HP for both C300 and C350. Being technically inclined and somewhat of a logical brained person, I thought what they said made sense ( atleast regarding both models will have the same ultimate HP due to them having the exact same engines.. hardware wise. Again in terms of previous dyno test results in this forum or elsewhere, I did not have any.
Long story short, I went ahead and did my ECU upgrade through Kleemann. I parked my car at their local dealer ( a private mechanic) and as promised got the upgraded ECU and my car back on the 3rd day. Cost CAD about $1950 +HST all in -labor and courier( the Canadian dollar since last year has weakened quite a bit against USD- Kleemann USA price is still $1295).
I haven't dyno-ed yet but the feel and driving dynamics are different. If you ask me, personally I have mixed reactions. The acceleration lag is gone and there is definitely more power. I took the car out to the country streets early mornings a couple of times on weekends and clocked 0 to 100kmph times ( 62mph in us). The stock times given by MB is 6.8 seconds for this car. Post-tune I experienced roughly around a 5.6 to 5.8 second acceleration of 0 to 100. Now the caveat to this is I had to use the stopwatch and look at my speedo the same time since I was the lone occupant of the car. This may mean it is less accurate than in a proper track speed setting. However, conservatively, I am confident that there is a real possibility of one full second having been shaven off.
There was one more icing on the cake. One evening an infiniti QX50 (326 hp and rated acceleration of 6.3 s 0 to 100 pulled up next to me on a traffic light and wanted to race me. He could not stay with me even on the first 25 meters and was comprehensively beaten also at the next traffic light. He probably was left shaking his head as to how he could have lost to a c300. ( probably it's time to debadge or put on the Kleemann badging that I got along with the tune. )
Now the downside to all this is the butter smooth slow speed driving is compromised quite a bit. I can now feel a couple of early gear changes quite well while earlier the stock gear changes were an absolute gem. Also a few times I have experienced rpm overruns after I take my foot off the pedal after a sudden kickdown. The gear continues to stay at stay a low gear without shifting back to a higher one for a couple of seconds giving off a scary engine whine. Those are the 2 main issues I have experienced so far after my tune in March( 2 months now).
Hope I have been able to contribute some worthwhile info for the people contemplating a tune by Kleemann or Renntech.
This is my very first post in this forum after I registered at MB world. I drive the w204 c 300 with the m276 engine (2014) and was following this particular thread with great interest. I too was toying with the idea of an ECU tune and after discussing with my MB dealer ( informally of course), shortlisted my candidates to the usual suspects- Renntech, Kleemann and Brabus. Brabus, of course was too expensive and impractical as I did not want to do headers or catbacks etc. That left Renntech and Kleemann. I live in Toronto and called both of their offices in USA and spoke to Cory and the Renntech guy ( forget his name). Renntech was quite categorical stating that all of their tunes for this engine would yield 22 HP gain. I asked him pointedly why, when the same m276 engine was used for both c350 and c300. He could not (or did not want to) give me a technical answer however just said that the 350 will post tune have 306 + 22 and c300 will have 248 + 22.
Kleemann, on the other hand was promising on their website ( we know about it all on this thread) the hotly debated 330 HP for both C300 and C350. Being technically inclined and somewhat of a logical brained person, I thought what they said made sense ( atleast regarding both models will have the same ultimate HP due to them having the exact same engines.. hardware wise. Again in terms of previous dyno test results in this forum or elsewhere, I did not have any.
Long story short, I went ahead and did my ECU upgrade through Kleemann. I parked my car at their local dealer ( a private mechanic) and as promised got the upgraded ECU and my car back on the 3rd day. Cost CAD about $1950 +HST all in -labor and courier( the Canadian dollar since last year has weakened quite a bit against USD- Kleemann USA price is still $1295).
I haven't dyno-ed yet but the feel and driving dynamics are different. If you ask me, personally I have mixed reactions. The acceleration lag is gone and there is definitely more power. I took the car out to the country streets early mornings a couple of times on weekends and clocked 0 to 100kmph times ( 62mph in us). The stock times given by MB is 6.8 seconds for this car. Post-tune I experienced roughly around a 5.6 to 5.8 second acceleration of 0 to 100. Now the caveat to this is I had to use the stopwatch and look at my speedo the same time since I was the lone occupant of the car. This may mean it is less accurate than in a proper track speed setting. However, conservatively, I am confident that there is a real possibility of one full second having been shaven off.
There was one more icing on the cake. One evening an infiniti QX50 (326 hp and rated acceleration of 6.3 s 0 to 100 pulled up next to me on a traffic light and wanted to race me. He could not stay with me even on the first 25 meters and was comprehensively beaten also at the next traffic light. He probably was left shaking his head as to how he could have lost to a c300. ( probably it's time to debadge or put on the Kleemann badging that I got along with the tune. )
Now the downside to all this is the butter smooth slow speed driving is compromised quite a bit. I can now feel a couple of early gear changes quite well while earlier the stock gear changes were an absolute gem. Also a few times I have experienced rpm overruns after I take my foot off the pedal after a sudden kickdown. The gear continues to stay at stay a low gear without shifting back to a higher one for a couple of seconds giving off a scary engine whine. Those are the 2 main issues I have experienced so far after my tune in March( 2 months now).
Hope I have been able to contribute some worthwhile info for the people contemplating a tune by Kleemann or Renntech.
03-08-2017, 12:03 PM
#392
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Canada
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2019 911 GTS / 2016 X3 / 2015 E63s / 1993 RX-7
Nice to see that virtually nothing has changed last 3 years other than xjaymzzx posting a significant 'delta/gain' in hp.
Can you post up the dyno xjaymzza or pm it to me?
Cheers
Can you post up the dyno xjaymzza or pm it to me?
Cheers
03-10-2017, 03:19 PM
#393
Hi all, I am a newbie to the 'tune' and I do have a stupid question.
If the C300 is detune from C350 and Kleeman tune is to tune it back to C350.
Since C300 and C350 are basically the "same" engine, what if a C300 with a C350 ECU? Will that works?
If the C300 is detune from C350 and Kleeman tune is to tune it back to C350.
Since C300 and C350 are basically the "same" engine, what if a C300 with a C350 ECU? Will that works?
03-10-2017, 04:07 PM
#394
Junior Member
03-10-2017, 04:09 PM
#395
Junior Member
i doubt anyone will be able to respond to this accurately and with proof of success (dyno readings, pics, time slips, etc).
03-12-2017, 11:59 AM
#396
Senior Member
What would be the point? It's the software not the hardware that is the difference between tunes. Dealer would be required to flash that ECU to your VIN and is going to load a C300 tune, they aren't swappable like the 90's anymore.
03-16-2017, 05:06 PM
#397
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Napa Valley, CA, USA
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W211 AMG
Will getting the ECU reprogrammed effect SMOG Emissions? I live in California, USA.
I was planning on getting Kleemann headers with the ECU if it does pass SMOG.
I was planning on getting Kleemann headers with the ECU if it does pass SMOG.
03-16-2017, 07:47 PM
#398
Hey gang,
Getting ready to order the ECU from Kleeman, sent an email inquiring about details. Being that I'm not in Colorado, it sounds like I just remove my ECU and ship to them then they ship back after $1300 worth of magic has been done. Which leads me to my question, does anyone have a good walk through or guide as to how to remove the ECU?
Getting ready to order the ECU from Kleeman, sent an email inquiring about details. Being that I'm not in Colorado, it sounds like I just remove my ECU and ship to them then they ship back after $1300 worth of magic has been done. Which leads me to my question, does anyone have a good walk through or guide as to how to remove the ECU?
03-16-2017, 07:51 PM
#399
Junior Member
Hey gang,
Getting ready to order the ECU from Kleeman, sent an email inquiring about details. Being that I'm not in Colorado, it sounds like I just remove my ECU and ship to them then they ship back after $1300 worth of magic has been done. Which leads me to my question, does anyone have a good walk through or guide as to how to remove the ECU?
Getting ready to order the ECU from Kleeman, sent an email inquiring about details. Being that I'm not in Colorado, it sounds like I just remove my ECU and ship to them then they ship back after $1300 worth of magic has been done. Which leads me to my question, does anyone have a good walk through or guide as to how to remove the ECU?
03-16-2017, 09:04 PM
#400
One thing I just thought of... Does resetting the transmission memory have any affect after the ECU tune?
Video of what I'm talking about:
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1BigDaddy1 (08-22-2017)
