How Long for Takata Airbags
08-09-2016, 06:12 PM
#1
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2010 C300 4MATIC........ 2011 C63 AMG.............. 2015 CLS400 4MATIC.....
How Long for Takata Airbags
Right, so I just got a letter in the mail today, obviously for the Takata airbag recall, now "spreading" to the passenger side. Well, its been half a year now and so far we have not had a replacement for anything???
Just wondering if you guys are in a similar/same boat.../thoughts.
I'm pretty sure Honda's already got some of the job fixed/started, I don't see why MB is waiting even IF they do not have any injuries?..
I also have another vehicle that is affected and they don't have anything either.
Just wondering if you guys are in a similar/same boat.../thoughts.
I'm pretty sure Honda's already got some of the job fixed/started, I don't see why MB is waiting even IF they do not have any injuries?..
I also have another vehicle that is affected and they don't have anything either.
08-10-2016, 12:47 PM
#3
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Some of it might be the model year of the car and also the location. The warmer, more humid areas are more likely to have the bag degrade than somewhere like where we live in Wisconsin, so it might not necessarily be that Mercedes is farther down the line. Plus, probably the biggest reason is this whole thing involves like 30MM+ cars (and maybe still climbing?). That is a lot of airbags to make.
08-10-2016, 03:11 PM
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True...... :S
But you very well know that WI weather is pretty much hormonal, for ex today its VERY hot, and it can get pretty bad up here too.
But you very well know that WI weather is pretty much hormonal, for ex today its VERY hot, and it can get pretty bad up here too.
08-10-2016, 04:44 PM
#5
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A day or two here or there maybe in the low 90s a couple months a yea is a lot different than a daily occurrence with a lot of humidity every day pretty much from April/May to September or so like somewhere like Louisiana or Texas where when it is in the low 90s it probably feels balmy.
08-10-2016, 06:49 PM
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It'll be interesting to see just how many cars actually DO end up getting fixed. Takata, if they haven't already, is going to go bankrupt over this. Even now, estimates are running into the billions of dollars to fix the many millions of defective actuators/airbag assemblies. That company will not survive it, and may likely fall far short of replacing all the bad parts. Sad, but there you are. Nothing like having the government forcing these things on us!
08-10-2016, 06:56 PM
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A day or two here or there maybe in the low 90s a couple months a yea is a lot different than a daily occurrence with a lot of humidity every day pretty much from April/May to September or so like somewhere like Louisiana or Texas where when it is in the low 90s it probably feels balmy.
It'll be interesting to see just how many cars actually DO end up getting fixed. Takata, if they haven't already, is going to go bankrupt over this. Even now, estimates are running into the billions of dollars to fix the many millions of defective actuators/airbag assemblies. That company will not survive it, and may likely fall far short of replacing all the bad parts. Sad, but there you are. Nothing like having the government forcing these things on us!
On one end, you can say, "Well, I've been driving this car for years, and nothing has happened." But when they go to lengths to say don't drive your car, then why are they waiting so long :S
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08-10-2016, 07:07 PM
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2012 Mercedes C250
They sure are taking their sweet time, especially when they were telling their Honda/Acura drivers with older models "DO NOT EVEN DRIVE YOUR CAR BECAUSE IT MAY KILL YOU."
On one end, you can say, "Well, I've been driving this car for years, and nothing has happened." But when they go to lengths to say don't drive your car, then why are they waiting so long :S
On one end, you can say, "Well, I've been driving this car for years, and nothing has happened." But when they go to lengths to say don't drive your car, then why are they waiting so long :S
Don't forget- since this whole thing became public, less than twenty people worldwide have been killed directly by the air bags, so it's still statistically a tiny issue. Far more people have been killed by perfectly functioning air bags over the years.
08-12-2016, 05:03 PM
#10
Looks like at least some of the 2014 C series are clear.
From safercar.gov:
VIN: x___________________yz
Year: 2014 Make: Model: C250W
Number of Open Recalls: 0
From consumerreports.org:
C-Class
2005-2007 C230
2005 C320
2006-2007 C350
2008-2011 C350 - Driver & passenger
2008-2011 C300
2008-2011 C300 4Matic - Driver & passenger
2008-2011 C63AMG - Driver & passenger
From safercar.gov:
VIN: x___________________yz
Year: 2014 Make: Model: C250W
Number of Open Recalls: 0
From consumerreports.org:
C-Class
2005-2007 C230
2005 C320
2006-2007 C350
2008-2011 C350 - Driver & passenger
2008-2011 C300
2008-2011 C300 4Matic - Driver & passenger
2008-2011 C63AMG - Driver & passenger
Last edited by twowheelin; 08-12-2016 at 05:05 PM.
08-12-2016, 07:27 PM
#11
My conversation with MB 800 customer service regarding other recalls is that this is a precautionary measure on the part of MB as they don't believe their inflators are affected but have the Takata name stamped on them. Take it at face value I guess?
When MB issues a stop driving order I will sure enough demand a nice new loaner while they replace the inflators.
I don't even know how Takata is still surviving, they sure are producing a lot of free parts and labor, paying for a lot of loaners and probably losing contracts left and right.
This will probably be a turning point in the industry of not putting all your eggs in one basket. I understand the economy of scale but when something goes wrong both parties are left holding a burning bag of dog crap.
When MB issues a stop driving order I will sure enough demand a nice new loaner while they replace the inflators.
I don't even know how Takata is still surviving, they sure are producing a lot of free parts and labor, paying for a lot of loaners and probably losing contracts left and right.
This will probably be a turning point in the industry of not putting all your eggs in one basket. I understand the economy of scale but when something goes wrong both parties are left holding a burning bag of dog crap.
08-27-2016, 06:44 AM
#12
Super Member
According to this press release from the NHTSA, it could possibly stretch out as late as 2019 
They also offered the following:
And assuming Mercedes Benz has divulged an accurate assessment of its risk by saying "it is only precautionary", this might imply that MB models might be pushed to a later date to accommodate those vehicles with a higher risk of causing injury or death.
Originally Posted by NHTSA
These expansions are planned to take place in phases between May 2016 and December 2019.
Originally Posted by NHTSA
The five recall phases are based on prioritization of risk, determined by the age of the inflators and exposure to high humidity and fluctuating high temperatures that accelerate the degradation of the chemical propellant.
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jylee (08-27-2016)
08-27-2016, 08:51 AM
#13
Super Member
And last but not least, and since most people only see bankruptcy as an option, my guess is that they are using that as leverage -either you help, or we're done- as they are in talks with some of the car manufacturers about splitting the cost of airbag replacement, not necessarily for Takata to make a profit, but just to allow it to continue to operate because the alternative would leave those same manufacturers in between a rock, and... a rock!
08-27-2016, 11:03 AM
#14
Super Member
I also wonder if this is all Takata's problem. By that I mean all those airbags were built to some specification or industry standard that were approved by not just one manufacturer, but it seems by pretty much everyone. Is it a manufacturing defect where Takata did not build them they way they said they would or maybe substitute materials and not telling the manufacturers that they changed something in their manufacturing process? I would have to think these designs were extensively tested (and approved) like all kinds of other parts and systems in the automotive industry. It almost seems like the issue we are seeing now is something that was not envisioned when they were originally designed and could conceivably be argued that it could be a shared responsibility where there is kind of a gray area as to who is at fault. Or is this something where Takata was proven to be totally liable?
08-27-2016, 08:53 PM
#15
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Alfadude my guess is that those standards aren't as stringent as you think...
As an engineer, I deal with a lot of standards... Constantly, and you will be surprised as to how big of a gap their is from industry to industry.
I'm not familiar with airbag standards, but from what I've seen, the bottom line is this:
Standards are really only there for one reason, to save money. If an applied standard causes costs to produce materials to increase substantially, but in the end, the downtime of a single failed piece could cost much more than the extra involved in the procurement process (such as the strict standards involved in oil production), then the standard will survive. Otherwise, it fails.
I.E. if a standard means the company is being forced to pay more to produce goods that in turn don't save them any money, then they drop the standard.
Like I said, I'm not familiar with airbag standards, but I would not bet on standards being produced to save a life... To save thousands of lives? Sure, but not because of morals, instead because lawsuits resulting from such losses would result in the company losing more money than what it would cost to abide by a certain more stringent production and metallurgical standard. Get my drift?
As an engineer, I deal with a lot of standards... Constantly, and you will be surprised as to how big of a gap their is from industry to industry.
I'm not familiar with airbag standards, but from what I've seen, the bottom line is this:
Standards are really only there for one reason, to save money. If an applied standard causes costs to produce materials to increase substantially, but in the end, the downtime of a single failed piece could cost much more than the extra involved in the procurement process (such as the strict standards involved in oil production), then the standard will survive. Otherwise, it fails.
I.E. if a standard means the company is being forced to pay more to produce goods that in turn don't save them any money, then they drop the standard.
Like I said, I'm not familiar with airbag standards, but I would not bet on standards being produced to save a life... To save thousands of lives? Sure, but not because of morals, instead because lawsuits resulting from such losses would result in the company losing more money than what it would cost to abide by a certain more stringent production and metallurgical standard. Get my drift?
08-28-2016, 03:37 AM
#16
Super Member
It almost seems like the issue we are seeing now is something that was not envisioned when they were originally designed and could conceivably be argued that it could be a shared responsibility where there is kind of a gray area as to who is at fault. Or is this something where Takata was proven to be totally liable?
This is the summary of the NHTSA investigation leading to the inclusion of the passenger side airbag on Mercedes Benz vehicles. I think it addesses the actual defect itself, and if I were to guess, I would venture that they never tested the inflators under extreme heat and humidity elemnts until they were asked to do so. The result is what we are seeing now...
RCLRPT-16V363-8684.PDF Recall 573 Report - Amendment 3 216
RMISC-16V363-9369.xlsx Miscellaneous Document 11
1 Associated Investigation(s) close
NHTSA Action Number: EA15001 Air Bag Inflator Rupture close
SUMMARY:
The Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) opened PE14-016 in June 2014 based on six inflator rupture incidents involving consumer owned vehicles produced by five vehicle manufacturers. All six vehicles were operated in Florida or Puerto Rico at the time of the rupture and for the majority of their service life, and were equipped with inflators produced by Takata, a tier-one supplier of automotive air bag systems. During the course of PE14-016, ODI determined that five additional vehicle manufacturers used inflators of a similar design and vintage also supplied by Takata. No evidence of field failures was found in vehicles produced by these five additional manufacturers.
Nonetheless, at ODI's insistence, all 10 vehicle manufacturers initiated a regional recall within approximately two weeks of the opening of the investigation. The regions recalled initially included Florida, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, areas with high absolute humidity and climatic conditions believed to be a significant factor in the inflator ruptures. As part of the recall actions, inflators removed from remedied vehicles are to be returned to Takata for testing. Takata's initial test results on passenger inflators from remedied vehicles indicated a much higher than anticipated rupture frequency for inflators returned from Florida. Accordingly ODI requested all 10 manufacturers expand the regional recalls for passenger inflators to include other geographic areas where high absolute humidity conditions exist, including the Gulf States and other coastal areas. Takata's testing of the passenger inflators to date continues to indicate this geographic area as having the highest risk, with no ruptures occurring from inflators returned from outside the expanded recall regions. During PE14-016 four additional passenger inflator field events occurred, all in vehicles from the same expanded geographic region.
Also during PE14-016 four additional driver inflator field events occurred including two in vehicles from regions not known for high absolute humidity, specifically California and North Carolina. Accordingly, ODI requested all five of the affected vehicle manufacturers currently using the subject Takata driver inflators expand to nationwide recalls. Significantly, neither of the affected vehicle manufacturers or Takata provided any explanation to account for these two driver air bag inflator ruptures outside the area of high absolute humidity. Takata testing of returned driver inflators indicates a lower rupture frequency as compared to passenger inflator testing. All test ruptures reported by Takata to date have occurred on inflators returned from high absolute humidity areas.
The investigation now includes all manufacturers and vehicles known to be affected at this time. ODI's investigation will focus on, among other things, root cause analysis, other potential defect consequences, identification of affected vehicles scope, and adequacy of the remedy. The five ODI reports cited above can be reviewed online at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchNHTSAID under the following identification numbers: 10537899, 10568848, 10585224, 10605877, 10651492
RMISC-16V363-9369.xlsx Miscellaneous Document 11
1 Associated Investigation(s) close
NHTSA Action Number: EA15001 Air Bag Inflator Rupture close
SUMMARY:
The Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) opened PE14-016 in June 2014 based on six inflator rupture incidents involving consumer owned vehicles produced by five vehicle manufacturers. All six vehicles were operated in Florida or Puerto Rico at the time of the rupture and for the majority of their service life, and were equipped with inflators produced by Takata, a tier-one supplier of automotive air bag systems. During the course of PE14-016, ODI determined that five additional vehicle manufacturers used inflators of a similar design and vintage also supplied by Takata. No evidence of field failures was found in vehicles produced by these five additional manufacturers.
Nonetheless, at ODI's insistence, all 10 vehicle manufacturers initiated a regional recall within approximately two weeks of the opening of the investigation. The regions recalled initially included Florida, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, areas with high absolute humidity and climatic conditions believed to be a significant factor in the inflator ruptures. As part of the recall actions, inflators removed from remedied vehicles are to be returned to Takata for testing. Takata's initial test results on passenger inflators from remedied vehicles indicated a much higher than anticipated rupture frequency for inflators returned from Florida. Accordingly ODI requested all 10 manufacturers expand the regional recalls for passenger inflators to include other geographic areas where high absolute humidity conditions exist, including the Gulf States and other coastal areas. Takata's testing of the passenger inflators to date continues to indicate this geographic area as having the highest risk, with no ruptures occurring from inflators returned from outside the expanded recall regions. During PE14-016 four additional passenger inflator field events occurred, all in vehicles from the same expanded geographic region.
Also during PE14-016 four additional driver inflator field events occurred including two in vehicles from regions not known for high absolute humidity, specifically California and North Carolina. Accordingly, ODI requested all five of the affected vehicle manufacturers currently using the subject Takata driver inflators expand to nationwide recalls. Significantly, neither of the affected vehicle manufacturers or Takata provided any explanation to account for these two driver air bag inflator ruptures outside the area of high absolute humidity. Takata testing of returned driver inflators indicates a lower rupture frequency as compared to passenger inflator testing. All test ruptures reported by Takata to date have occurred on inflators returned from high absolute humidity areas.
The investigation now includes all manufacturers and vehicles known to be affected at this time. ODI's investigation will focus on, among other things, root cause analysis, other potential defect consequences, identification of affected vehicles scope, and adequacy of the remedy. The five ODI reports cited above can be reviewed online at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchNHTSAID under the following identification numbers: 10537899, 10568848, 10585224, 10605877, 10651492
Well, keep in mind that some news stories are indicating that Honda has disclosed that they can show that Takata executives knew of these defects prior to contacting the NHTSA with any indication of their existance. So in addition to the financial pressure that Takata is currently under, and on top of the monetary fines that the cpmpany has been ordered to pay, it is highly likely that Takata executives will face criminal charges before this whole thing is said and done.
