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Here's the lease deal OTD on a MSRP'd ($50,160) 2017 C300 coupe: $2200 inception cash (includes all fees and first month payment), $635/month for 35 months at 7,500 miles/year. What you think?
What is the discount off MSRP, the residual percentage and the money factor? Need those values plus a break out of the upfront fees ( dealer fee, acquisition, tag etc) and I can tell you if the payment they quoted you actually reflects the deal they promised you. No way to tell otherwise. Could be right, or you could be overpaying by thousands.
What is the discount off MSRP, the residual percentage and the money factor? Need those values plus a break out of the upfront fees ( dealer fee, acquisition, tag etc) and I can tell you if the payment they quoted you actually reflects the deal they promised you. No way to tell otherwise. Could be right, or you could be overpaying by thousands.
MF=.00121 (APR=2.9%)
Residual=60%
Never got a clear indication of the discount:
Before haggling a little, the monthly payments would have been $666/mo
I believe at this time the discount was $2508
After a little haggling, the monthly payment came down to $635/mo
Never negotiate based on payment. Negotiate on price and calculate your own payment. Residual looks too low for 7500 miles a year. A sedan lease for 36 months with double the mileage has a 60% residual.
Clarify from the dealer how much off MSRP he's willing to go and post back. Looks like you're on Edmunds as well. The mod is asking what the net cap cost (the total amount financed), not the residual value.
Download the lease spreadsheet and plug in your numbers. Also read the part about not negotiating based on payment:
Never negotiate based on payment. Negotiate on price and calculate your own payment. Residual looks too low for 7500 miles a year. A sedan lease for 36 months with double the mileage has a 60% residual.
Clarify from the dealer how much off MSRP he's willing to go and post back. Looks like you're on Edmunds as well. The mod is asking what the net cap cost (the total amount financed), not the residual value.
Download the lease spreadsheet and plug in your numbers. Also read the part about not negotiating based on payment:
This negotiation is already lost, IMO. Given that you've already begun negotiating based on monthly payment, you've become prey to the dealership. The dealership most likely views you as an easy target as a result, like most car shoppers are, one whom is uneducated on leasing and thus they will prey on you. At this point you'd have to really blow them away in order to reverse the power position in the negotiation...if you come in spewing off some numbers with a spreadsheet, they will still know your new found knowledge is shallow and they can get you out of your comfort zone pretty easily.
Best advise: Follow Mike's sheet and best of luck to you, maybe say you didn't like the other sales associate and ask to work with someone else. Turn it around on them, say you didn't like that the SA tried to "take you" by negotiating in terms of payment, and ask for someone that will negotiate based on vehicle price, buy rate MF, and standard MBFS residuals (obtain the later two from Edmunds.com forum moderators). Otherwise, go to a different dealership and start from scratch.
when i was shopping around, i asked about the programs on the C coupe and all dealers told me they were horrible. there's no cash in them and I think they only have a $500 cash allowance. I had a fleet program option and with that, they were only giving $500 as well. so these numbers aren't absurd...
however, that being said i would shop around 7,500 miles is also a very low amount of miles and a residual of 60% after 35/36 mo after that much mileage is really low. i would also question the money factor as it is fairly low. asfair, the lowest MF i saw in the dealer books was around 125...
did the dealer give you a break down of the gross cap cost and the discounts/incentives applied to the selling price?
Save a copy to your computer with a different file name and work from the new version. Since this is a car for a future delivery, the dealer can't give you a hard number on residual and MF since they'll vary when you actually get the car and do the deal. But use the dealers numbers for now to practice using the spreadsheet.
It's shocking to me that the residual on a C300 coupe is so low relative to the sedan. It's possible MB padded the residual on the sedan in 2016 to incentivize sales, but apples to apples a 36/7,500 lease should have a residual in the mid sixties.
Indeed, Mike. If these residuals carry over to the C43 Coupe, I am 100% purchasing it rather than leasing. Wow.
Right? I mean just being an AMG car knocks 3% off residuals to begin with. 60% on a 300 with half the mileage as the sedan is nuts. It looks to me like that 60% number is a pure guess by the dealer and low balled since he thought he was dealing with a payment buyer.
MB hasn't published coupe rates yet as best I can tell. June might be the first month.
I was able to do the spreadsheet with my figures, and here it is. It's in two parts as I couldn't get it all in one shot. Look guys, this is my first lease as I always bought my cars for cash. I'm leasing now because I just don't want to keep a car a long time and try to keep it in great condition for resale. Not that I won't keep this car looking good, but I won't have to do it for more than three years and I won't have to do it as well as I have been doing it in the past. Getting a little long in the tooth and looking to take easy. nonetheless, I don't want to get hosed, either. Even though this car has to be built, the guy I'm dealing with said he would hold and honor these figures at the time of the actual sale. Hopefully, from these figures you can guide me onto the type of deal I should shoot for. I very much appreciate all the help effort you guys are putting into this exercise.
Open Office can save the file as a PDF. (Little icon on the very top menu bar).Those are easier to post. I'll run those numbers and let you know what I come up with.
Open Office can save the file as a PDF. (Little icon on the very top menu bar).Those are easier to post. I'll run those numbers and let you know what I come up with.
Thanks, Mike. I've been running this issue on the Edmunds forum also and there is a Mike (you the same one?) that says the figures in the sheet are correct. And if that is the case, I would certainly like to know where all the padding is coming from as I'm in for $635/mo and the sheet has my monthly payments at $575/mo? I just don't see where the $60/mo difference is coming from? Is it the dealer that making the $60x36=$2160. Certainly he's entitled to a profit, but not that much. If i am correct in that I shold be paying $575, would my showing him the spredsheet and trying to renegotiate do any good??? It now seems to me when one negotiates, one should have a the spredsheet with them to plug in figures as they come from the rep. Man, I may not sleep tonight thinking about this bull****.
No, the variance should be within a couple of dollars. There's an extra couple grand that shouldn't be in there and we need to hunt it down. I take a laptop and spreadsheet into the dealership. You can also work up the deal on the spreadsheet and send it to the dealer as an offer.
Okay, got it sorted out. You had the dealer's quoted payment field held over from my spreadsheet. Fixed that, and moved the acquisition fee and dealer fee from part of the cap costs to "due at signing." I get $1761 due at signing, that's the fees plus first month's rent and tax.
I get rent and tax at $617, vs the quoted $635 ($18 monthly variance, extra $652 over the life of the lease).
I'd send the dealer an email with the spreadsheet attached to it (you can delete the variance stuff), with a note like:
Attached please find a deal breakout on the 2017 C Class Coupe. Based on the numbers we discussed I arrive at rent and tax of $616.89 and Due at Signing of $1,760.89. Please review the attached spreadsheet, and if I'm missing anything let me know. If you're agreeable to these figures, I'll come by with a deposit.
I understand the final numbers for residual and money factor may change between now and delivery. Should you become aware of any changes please let me know so I can update my breakout.
You are the man, Mike. I've got to say that I'm mightily impressed with they way you sorted things out for me. And, I must say it was awfully nice of you to compose the note to the dealer and make up the pdf file for me. Too late now, but tomorrow morning I get things written up for the dealer.
BTW, if my understanding is correct that the leasing payments go to Mercedes, who's getting the extra money ($635 vs #617)...the dealer?, but how?
You're welcome. To your question, anything extra that remains after MBFS funds the lease is the dealers to keep. If you unintentionally financed an extra $600 above the cost of the car and the fees, it's dealer profit.
On your deal, I'd make sure the $2500 MSRP Discount isn't actually $1900, or that they didn't sneak in a mystery up-front fee for $600.
I didn't see any fee for tag and title. That can run $250-$300. Usually if the spreadsheet I'm sending them is missing anything they'll let me know. I'd just send the PDF and email and see how they respond.
If tag and title are in there you may only be a couple hundred apart.
You're welcome. To your question, anything extra that remains after MBFS funds the lease is the dealers to keep. If you unintentionally financed an extra $600 above the cost of the car and the fees, it's dealer profit.
On your deal, I'd make sure the $2500 MSRP Discount isn't actually $1900, or that they didn't sneak in a mystery up-front fee for $600.
I didn't see any fee for tag and title. That can run $250-$300. Usually if the spreadsheet I'm sending them is missing anything they'll let me know. I'd just send the PDF and email and see how they respond.
If tag and title are in there you may only be a couple hundred apart.
Tags and title and all other fees not actually part of the lease are to be paid up front and not to be carried within the lease. So, from what you are implying above about extra fees within the lease, it looks to me that we may be more than just "a couple of hundred apart." Am I correct? If you confirm this, then I'll send out the email and try to get down to $617/mo as it would be worth it.
So yeah, they're off a total of $652 in payment variance, plus $500 on the Due At Signing. $1,152 that they need to either account for or get rid of for the deal to square up.
Tag and Title Fees are the same as the Dealer Prep Fee and the Acquisition Fee in that you can pay them up front as part of your Due At Signing, or you can fold them into the Capitalized Costs and they become part of the lease payment. You can even fold the first month's rent and tax into the lease and pay zero at signing (Sign & Drive). If we're missing tag/title than we would need to add it to the cap costs, or to the due at signing.
It's fine to put stuff other than the car itself into the lease payment. You can put negative trade equity in there, a warranty, pre-paid maintenance, etc.
I'd send them that email and attach the spreadsheet (not the PDF), but delete the variance section at the bottom first. It's basically a counter-offer and they can either accept it, or let you know where your figures are off.
05-25-2016, 06:00 PM
