Puchiyama

Hi, I am from Peru as i said in other thread, in here the burmester sound system in the c class is almost not and option, u have to pay a lot of extra money and wait for 6 or 8 month to get the car..so is the option is almost a not option.
My question is if somebody knows how to upgrade the base crapy sound system. My car comes with 5 speakers ( at least that is what the dealer told me) 4 in doors and a frontbass. ( not sure because i will get my car in 2 weeks). I have heard that we can replace the front speakers with Focal brand, but what about the subwoofer and the rear doors speakers. Does anybody knows what to do with those?
Tks

Mike5215

Given the low power output of the factory amp, I think the Focals would cost a lot and make little difference overall. Since the car lacks tweeters, I'd do two sets of 4" coaxials for the doors, like the inexpensive MTX Thunder 40. I've used them previously. They sound warm and full for a 4" and aren't power hogs. Depth is fine, but you'd need to modify the mount a little. (OEM use a tri lobe 3 point mount, most aftermarket are 4 point square)

To supplement the bass, add a small amp and box.

I'd do 2 8" rather than a 10" box, since the car has no actual mid bass woofers and the dual 8" will give you punch but also can play up higher into the midbass without getting loose and sloppy.

Have a look at the JL Sub in this write up to see what I'm referring to:

Www.w205audio.wordpress.com

cidtek

@Mike5215 That looks like a reasonable effort so what in your opinion would be the next step in an incremental upgrade?

Mike5215

Can you do the two front doors with coaxials and the trunk sub at the same time? They need each other to balance out. Just the sub will be too muddy. Just the coaxials will be too bright.

What source do you listen to most often?

Puchiyama

I have heard that is difficult to improve the rear doors speakers because the lack of space, is it true? Remember that in the base system doesnt come with tweeters speakers in rear doors and now i know even in the front. Are the base sound system connected to some integrated noise reduction system or something like that? Asking because in my previous Honda Accord i made the upgrade and put a better aftermarket equipment but i had to desconnect the noise reduction system for the car. The MB does not have that kind of issues?

Puchiyama

@mike5215, what brands are the tops for the upgrade the speakers, sub and the amp? Compared to bose, bang & olufsen or burmester? Are these the top top brands?

Mike5215

No, those are all puffed up home audio brands who sold their names to auto manufacturers when it was discovered buyers would pay more for branded premium systems. Some sound decent enough, but if you took the money they cost you and divided it by half, you could build an aftermarket system that was still twice as good.

The pure high end aftermarket companies...Audison, Focal, JL etc. and I'm sure I forgot a few, are the way to go. Even the companies that have done mid grade aftermarket audio for years...Kenwood, Alpine, Rockford Fosgate... build better components than you'll find in any branded OEM system.

Mike5215

If you're just replacing speakers, VNC won't matter. Audio 20 has no vehicle noise compensation and neither system has noise reduction. VNC just boosts frequencies that might otherwise get masked by road noise as speed (and noise) increase. It's the equivalent of turning up the bass in your convertible when the top is down, but VNC does it automatically. It's kind of a joke. Mine is completely defeated and I can't tell the difference. If you're doing aftermarket DSP and amps, you need the JL Fix82 to strip out VNC in a Burmester.

Since all four doors in an Audio 20 contain standard 4", 4 ohm midrange speakers and no tweets, just replace them with coaxials, which have a tweeter mounted atop a 4" woofer in a single piece. They're really inexpensive and sound about as good as a 4" 2 way can.

If you try doing two way components ( separate 4" woofer and tweeter) the options go way down and prices go up exponentially, and unless you're getting into an OEM integration processor and outboard amps to feed them more power, their advantage over the much less costly coaxials is reduced to nothing.

Puchiyama

@mike5215, i believe u every word! I appreciate the attencion to detail for the answer. I think when i will receive my MB in a couple of weeks will be where to fit all the aftermarket speakers. The dealer told me that it comes only with 4 mids and 1 frontbass. Do you believe that there will be room for 4 speakers in front 4 in rear door and the 2 8" subs? Because i know the burmester comes with room for 13 speakers. What u think?

Mike5215

The 13 speaker thing is misleading. They're counting each individual tweeter, plus three more 4" speakers for surround (center dash, and two in the rear deck). In terms of the main cabin speakers, both the A20 and the Burm get a 4" midrange speaker in each door. The Burm gets tweets in the front door sail panels and a separate mount in the rear doors, plus an extra 8" up front. Going to coaxials solves the tweeter issue in both the front and rear doors on an A20 car.

Two sets of 4" coaxials and a sub + amp for the trunk is all you need. I think those MTX are only around $80 a set.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_236THND...2793585&awdv=m

cidtek

Any tips on the 4 lugs mounting difference?

Mike5215

Yeah, you clip or Dremel off the bottom two ears, then make a little tab out of a piece of bracket to catch the bottom and attach it with a screw. This is how we did it on my W221.

cidtek

So 2 out of 3 at the top actually matchup?

cidtek

What amp do you recommend for the 8" subs and where does it get its input from?

Mike5215

They matched up on the Focals and should on any square mount 4". You'd pull signal from the powered side of the OEM amp in the trunk. I don't have an A20 wiring diagram so you'd need to hunt down the speaker wire color codes for the 8" Frontbass sub to drive the new box and amp. (There's a schematic for the Burmester on the blog. Probably same color codes but I'm not 100%)

I had a 300 watt JL amp on hand, but any amp that will accept speaker level inputs will work.

cidtek

Do I disconnect the front sub and run its inputs to the new rear amp then?

Mike5215

No, just use a tap to splice into it and leave the original signal intact.

Puchiyama

@mike5215, dont u think, component speakers are better than coaxial? I have seen in other blogs about speakers that separate sound is much better. Do u think is possible to use Focal components, tweeters and mids instead of coaxial for front doors and coaxial for rear doors, and obviusly a sub+ amp.
One more thing, if i use the components or coaxial do i have to use an amp or just connect to base audio 20. Thks again!

Mike5215

You have no room for 3 way components. There is one 4" opening in each door. Up front you could do 2 way components by putting tweeters in the mirror sail panels. Components are much more expensive and on the factory amp you would not be able to tell the difference between a $500 component set and an $80 coaxial in a 4". Spend the money on the amp/sub instead. Much more bang for the buck.

What's your budget?

Puchiyama

I see your point! The crapy amp inside the A20 isnt able to move the components at all.
Is it possible to put one amp for the components and one for the sub? Maybe i can put tweeters as you said in the mirror sail, plus 2 mids 4" in the front door, and 2 coaxials in rear doors+ sub 8" (2) or 1 10".
My budget is 1000 more or less.
What u think?

cidtek

Are the coaxes even brighter than the factory speakers? I thought their main selling point was richer low frequencies.


I am hesitant to add a trunk sub woofer because I'm just not a fan of hearing bass pumping out of cars and even my listening habits have never leaned towards artificially boosting bass. I have always believed that music as it was recorded and mixed is the way it's best heard, and any adjustments are to compensate for inferior equipment and cabins that prevent that experience.


Even though I certainly don't play a lot of classical music, but I would like to use the example that I can appreciate the clean separation of the kettle drums when they come into a piece but do not want to boost the system to point of the string bass section is thumping away during the session.

Mike5215

The JL 8x2 is $400, and the JL 300 watt sub amp is another $400, so there's $800. Leaves $200 for speakers, $80 X 2 for the MTX is $160, puts you at $960. No budget for adding amps for the front doors (and I wouldn't do anything to the cabin speaker amps without getting a DSP capable amp. The Prima 8.9 is a grand all by itself.)

My Focal KRS100 also were $750 alone ( in 2013. They're about $350 now.)

The system I recommended, using coaxials in the cabin and spending some money on a good sub box and amp, stays in your budget and will be a huge improvement vs stock. If at a later stage you can afford the Prima and Focals, you're just out the $80 for the coaxials.

Puchiyama

@mike5215, i see! One more question, if i take the choice to buy coaxial speakers, 4 of those, 2 in front door and 2 in rear plus the sub+amp. Do i need an extra amp for the coaxial, i guess not rigth? Just plug it to the audio 20, and of course 1 amp for the sub. Am i wrong?

Is there any other option better quality sound in coaxial speakers,? Do u know? Are there in focal or JL for 4" to fit in the doors?

Mike5215

No extra amp needed. Just use the factory speaker leads. I recommended the MTX because they sound good and their depth is okay for the space. Also they're fairly efficient (require less power) which is important since the factory amp is not especially powerful. But any speaker with similar efficiency and size would be fine.

On my 221 I thought a set of $750 Focals would make all the difference. Nope. Actually sounded worse.

Puchiyama

Tks @mike5215. I was making some research, and maybe i will have a tehcnical problem with the installation because the lack of space, do u know how much space we have to fit the coaxials? I have heard that in the rear doors are less space than the front, did u had the same problem switching for focals? I mean the depth. The standars has 38mm or something like that. Is it correct? The MTX has 44mm (1.75") depth