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I've always been a Mercedes guy, but with a change in location, I'm looking at AWD for my next car (a purchase with a long gestation), and I've been thinking about test driving an A4 as a result. Did anyone consider the A4 when they were buying? CR has nice things to say about Audi reliability these days, but I can't forget my mom's horrible experience with an Audi 4000 back in the early '90s, as long ago as that was.
i like the A4 virtual cockpit and the fact that the A4/A5 have a dual clutch, but ultimately the exterior design of the C class looked just a lot better (audi played it way safe on the B9)
I did own a 2010 A4 quattro. And having driven the C450 , i'd say the C class is a lot more neutral vs the Audi understeer.
my audi also blew an injector after 9000 miles (same basic design as the current A4, though apparently its fixed now), burned quarts upon quarts of oil, and then destroyed its catalytic converter at 44k miles due to all the burned oil. so yeah they might not be THAT reliable either though i still considered it again
I previously owned a 2008 A3. It has the same (2.0 T) engine as the A4.
At about 80,000 km the engine started to miss. It ended up being carbon buildup on the intake valves which is quite common in that engine. Cost about $1600 to have it walnut blasted. For more info, look up "A4 carbon buildup" on Google.
Although the problem is inherent in many direct injection engines, I understand that Mercedes allows a slight amount of blowback that keeps the intake ports slightly cleaner (at least that's my understanding). Maybe Glynn or someone more technical than me can clarify whether what I've heard about the Mercedes solution is true and whether it works.
Audi has a preventative solution (an additional injector ahead of the intake ports), but they haven't implemented it for North America.
I wouldn't make this a decision maker, but its one of the hidden problems with VW and Audi engines.
Thanks all for the feedback. Audi forums still have some horror stories from recent model years, but that's the nature of forums, too.
I like the C300 and want to love it, but it doesn't quite click with me. Looked at the W212 E350 CPO as well but that's a bigger car, and a bit of a more "mature" car, than I'm necessarily ready for (I'm just shy of 30). Also has a fair amount of body roll and isn't really an athlete the way the smaller C is.
With them being tied to VW as a parent company I would avoid them at all costs who knows how far the diesel scandal goes and with it affecting resale of all VW cars this would be a huge concern. Unless u plan to lease and keep it the entire length of the term.
I've always been a Mercedes guy, but with a change in location, I'm looking at AWD for my next car (a purchase with a long gestation), and I've been thinking about test driving an A4 as a result. Did anyone consider the A4 when they were buying? CR has nice things to say about Audi reliability these days, but I can't forget my mom's horrible experience with an Audi 4000 back in the early '90s, as long ago as that was.
I personally did NOT cross shop the Audi. Like you I am a Mercedes guy and while I don't discount other OEMS necessarily I definitely feel as though Audi should NOT get my business just for being a poor corporate citizen to the world in the wake of VW's diesel scandal. To me that trust is 100% lost and without executive turnover that were directly involved, will NOT receive my business ever. Even though the CEO stepped down I do believe more executives were involved with the scandal. So based on principle I refuse to cross shop with anything VW owns and produces.
I'm with the last poster. Audi Corp will never sell me any of their cars. Corrupt company. I hate my local MB dealer so I will likely be going back to a Lexus when my lease is up in 2 years
I previously owned a 2008 A3. It has the same (2.0 T) engine as the A4.
At about 80,000 km the engine started to miss. It ended up being carbon buildup on the intake valves which is quite common in that engine. Cost about $1600 to have it walnut blasted. For more info, look up "A4 carbon buildup" on Google.
Although the problem is inherent in many direct injection engines, I understand that Mercedes allows a slight amount of blowback that keeps the intake ports slightly cleaner (at least that's my understanding). Maybe Glynn or someone more technical than me can clarify whether what I've heard about the Mercedes solution is true and whether it works.
Audi has a preventative solution (an additional injector ahead of the intake ports), but they haven't implemented it for North America.
I wouldn't make this a decision maker, but its one of the hidden problems with VW and Audi engines.
technically that is a different engine. that was the EA113. which had timing belts that could snap.
the newer one in the b8 / b9 was the EA888. timing chain. they apparently were both pretty screwed up with oil and sludging issues especially the first few versions.
i'm not a brand loyalist so much, but VW seems to be the company where all the "bad german car reliability" issues seem to come from it sounds like. This is going to be my first benz, but it seems like mercedes takes a bit more time to release new tech in engines to make sure they will be reliable (especially post and pre chrysler), i mean they switched to turbos and DI later than a lot of the others
Nope, the B8 was on its way out last year, and also I wouldn't want a premium car with FWD driving dynamics. I looked at a 328 briefly because I loved my e90, but the f30 was not impressive to me, so knocked that off the list quite fast.
The only car I seriously cross shopped was the new Golf R because I have had 2 GTI's prior and loved them, but they don't even discount R's by $1 so I said screw you to several dealers basically. Also looked at the Jeep GC, which I really liked but couldn't resist being able to have a 3-pointed star so I went with the C-Class.
Nope, the B8 was on its way out last year, and also I wouldn't want a premium car with FWD driving dynamics. I looked at a 328 briefly because I loved my e90, but the f30 was not impressive to me, so knocked that off the list quite fast.
The only car I seriously cross shopped was the new Golf R because I have had 2 GTI's prior and loved them, but they don't even discount R's by $1 so I said screw you to several dealers basically. Also looked at the Jeep GC, which I really liked but couldn't resist being able to have a 3-pointed star so I went with the C-Class.
you nearly have to go out of your way to buy a FWD A4.
but, I'm guessing AWD doesn't tickle the pickle either.
you nearly have to go out of your way to buy a FWD A4.
but, I'm guessing AWD doesn't tickle the pickle either.
It does, but as discussed in another thread a few weeks ago, that audi platform is essentially a front wheel drive platform, being AWD or not. not a fan of those front heavy dynamics in that sort of car. In a Golf R however its expected and kind of fun. Used to love having the back of my GTI swing out in winter driving etc.
Came from B8 S4. I want to stay with Audi with B9 but
a) not a fan of the new interior
b) S4/5 is a year away still and my S4 is having issue and out of warranty soon
c) Mercedes got way better residuals and rates for leases
d) No more DCT for S4 with B9.
With Mercedes C43/C450 now being competitive in the field than C350 ever was, it's a no brainer to switch.
It does, but as discussed in another thread a few weeks ago, that audi platform is essentially a front wheel drive platform, being AWD or not. not a fan of those front heavy dynamics in that sort of car. In a Golf R however its expected and kind of fun. Used to love having the back of my GTI swing out in winter driving etc.
from the reviews I've seen. It seems significantly better than before. Not enough to say it doesn't understeer, but still much better.
My wife loves Audis. I think they're overpriced, cramped and chintzy feeling and the seats suck. She had a 2012 A5 and currently a 2014 Q7. I just don't get the appeal. I will say the sheetmetal on the A5 was pretty and for as long as I could tolerate the seat, fun to drive. But the 205 is every bit as fun to drive, the seats are great, and the interior...
On the new A4 the only bit inside I like is the LCD dash. That's cool. But the rest of it...and WTF is wrong with that steering wheel?
I cross shopped... The Audi dealer was full of "sales tools" aka dip**** sales people. Went Over to MB the next day and have never had such a great experience buying a new car.
Right? I asked one why Audi's seats were so much less comfortable than MB. He said (with a straight face) "It's a safety feature to keep drivers alert."
I cross shopped... The Audi dealer was full of "sales tools" aka dip**** sales people. Went Over to MB the next day and have never had such a great experience buying a new car.
totally agree....
my current car is an F30 328, and the last before that was a B8 A4. I'm 35 and I can pass for 25.
The only dealership that goes out of their way to talk to younger people is mercedes. I had to handle all of my Audi (i was 29 at the time and just had to have those LED DRLs...) and BMW negotiations online because going to the dealerships was a matter of being ignored all the time even though I make plenty of money.
Even back when I was looking at the audi , I went to a dealership to check out the W204, and was asked if I wanted to test drive a C63 right there (guy even said, you young guys we know to talk to, you could be the next mark zuckerberg who knows).
Whatever mercedes is doing, they let younger people feel welcome. I appreciate that. THe W204 honestly just wasn't good enough, but the W205/C205 is more than competitive. but the dealers being friendly, that has definitely mattered for me.
I personally despise Audi. I had a 2012 S4 and a 2014 A6 3.0T and both were the worst decisions I've ever made.
Not only are they shoddy made for the price, they treated me like dirt (combined, that's $110k worth in car I've bought). I should have learned the first time around, but my S4 was traded in for a 2013 C250 Coupe within 4 months because of lemon (which was hell - I had to sue VW, get a lawyer involved, and 12 months later my case was resolved by them taking back the car), and my A6 constantly was in repair with all the "tech" that's in there to the point where I traded it in for my 2015 C400.
The new A4 looks good on the inside...but that's about it. Audi is all about gimmicks. The tech "seems" advanced but untested. I've had the MM unit fail so many times on both cars, where bluetooth chip had to be replaced, screen stopped folding up, "Intelligent Drive" module failure, just headache on headache on more headache.
Should have stayed with Mercedes, and I am. Never will I deal with Audi again. Mercedes has superior service at both the corporate and their dealer level and their cars are far better built and I've never looked back.
My wife loves Audis. I think they're overpriced, cramped and chintzy feeling and the seats suck. She had a 2012 A5 and currently a 2014 Q7. I just don't get the appeal. I will say the sheetmetal on the A5 was pretty and for as long as I could tolerate the seat, fun to drive. But the 205 is every bit as fun to drive, the seats are great, and the interior...
On the new A4 the only bit inside I like is the LCD dash. That's cool. But the rest of it...and WTF is wrong with that steering wheel?
Yeah, between this thread and the research I've done since the though occurred to me...no on the Audi. Not paying Mercedes money for a FWD-based luxury car with VAG quality concerns behind it.
Mike, since I know you had S classes, how does the C's quality compare? Obviously it's a cheaper, lighter car, but does it feel like it's a Mercedes a few months of ownership in? This is something that's been hard to gauge on a test drive.
It's definitely flimsy compared to the S. The S didn't develop any cabin creaks until it was north of 60k. The C had them at 3k. I love the C though. I got AirMatic because it's a huge contributor to the S Class' silky ride. I also swapped on MPSS tires and I stayed at 18" on the wheels although they don't look as cool.
When I rehabbed the Burmester we sound proofed all four doors. All combined, the ride in my 205 is just as good and the car feels just as solid and quiet on surface streets as my 220 or 221.
On the interstate the C is a bit of a disappointment. Lots of wind noise, the suspension gets busy. That's the only gripe vs the vault like silence of the S. Then again MSRP on the S was $106,000, and I rarely am on the interstate.
I prefer the C's interior by far. The 221 looks like it should be in a museum by comparison. I think, for the money, the 205 is a lot of car, and worthy of the three point star, barely. My last small Benz was a 190E 2.6 and that car was more solid and better built than the 205.
It's definitely flimsy compared to the S. The S didn't develop any cabin creaks until it was north of 60k. The C had them at 3k. I love the C though. I got AirMatic because it's a huge contributor to the S Class' silky ride. I also swapped on MPSS tires and I stayed at 18" on the wheels although they don't look as cool.
When I rehabbed the Burmester we sound proofed all four doors. All combined, the ride in my 205 is just as good and the car feels just as solid and quiet on surface streets as my 220 or 221.
On the interstate the C is a bit of a disappointment. Lots of wind noise, the suspension gets busy. That's the only gripe vs the vault like silence of the S. Then again MSRP on the S was $106,000, and I rarely am on the interstate.
I prefer the C's interior by far. The 221 looks like it should be in a museum by comparison. I think, for the money, the 205 is a lot of car, and worthy of the three point star, barely. My last small Benz was a 190E 2.6 and that car was more solid and better built than the 205.
Thanks. Very helpful. Still deciding between a C and a CPO E. E seems more solid, which I like, and is better value as far as option packages go. C is better looking, more sprightly and more fun to drive and would be better for city driving (not surface streets, but actual driving in the city). Tough call.
Right? I asked one why Audi's seats were so much less comfortable than MB. He said (with a straight face) "It's a safety feature to keep drivers alert."
I personally despise Audi. I had a 2012 S4 and a 2014 A6 3.0T and both were the worst decisions I've ever made.
Not only are they shoddy made for the price, they treated me like dirt (combined, that's $110k worth in car I've bought). I should have learned the first time around, but my S4 was traded in for a 2013 C250 Coupe within 4 months because of lemon (which was hell - I had to sue VW, get a lawyer involved, and 12 months later my case was resolved by them taking back the car), and my A6 constantly was in repair with all the "tech" that's in there to the point where I traded it in for my 2015 C400.
The new A4 looks good on the inside...but that's about it. Audi is all about gimmicks. The tech "seems" advanced but untested. I've had the MM unit fail so many times on both cars, where bluetooth chip had to be replaced, screen stopped folding up, "Intelligent Drive" module failure, just headache on headache on more headache.
Should have stayed with Mercedes, and I am. Never will I deal with Audi again. Mercedes has superior service at both the corporate and their dealer level and their cars are far better built and I've never looked back.
Hope that helps you OP.
Exactly... BMW didn't even want me on their lot when i told them i had 4 months left of my Lexus IS lease which had already been paid off, MB made me feel welcome and I'm driving both cars now for a couple months. My uncle buying an S63 Coupe from them last year may have helped the situation out but in my area, there are people who buy 1 car a month from them... The day i bought my car I met this guy who was trading in his S550 coupe which still didnt have plates on it for a new E class and a G63.... Even though I leased just a C300 they still made me feel wanted at Mercedes.
06-29-2016, 01:12 AM
