Wheel Spacers on Stock C55 Rims?

[FrankW]

Originally Posted by crazeazn Just another perspective, though...If thats the case, then nobody should use aftermarket wheels!! Hehe, I'm not trying to antagonize you or anything like. But just from a simple physics standpoint, adding a spacer does increase and move the amount of force being applied to the end of the bolts on a hub. Think of it this way, a spacer basically robs the wheel of extra threads to hold the wheel down. You can buy longer studs but again more stress on the hub since its now pushed out further. It is possible that maybe these parts utilize high grade steel or aluminum that can withstand these forces, but in the long run i dont think its a good idea. Throw in the added chance of misbalancing wheels or vibration makes it a headache. Personally, I think its best to find an aftermarket company that makes a nice wheel with the proper offset. After all, we drive these expensive machines, put some nice bloody wheels on em? heres a copy pasta from a tundra forum i read: i don't know if you are agreeing or disagreeing with the first sentence because that pretty much sums up what I said in my post. so you are saying (for example) if a wheel is 18x8 ET35 in specs that runs the 5mm spacer with the proper bolts will be worse than the 18x8 ET30 wheels that runs the same bolts, but without the spacers? given that the spacers are hub-centric that is designed to fit directly onto the wheel that even has a little screw that securely lock the spacer in place. I'm not talking about anything other than high quality spacers/adapters here that are designed to be hub-centric. As I mentioned earlier generic spacers can cause vibrations which in long term could lead to damaging suspension parts. If someone is saying they want to slap on a 25mm spacer, then I would tell that person to think twice because that really puts a lot of stress onto the bolts. However for example the 25+mm spacer kit from H&R they are designed to have the spacer bolted onto the hub of the car before the wheels are secured to the spacer. As most of you should know that aftermarket wheels tend to have thinner hubs evident that most of you are running shorter bolts in the rear wheel. Do the stock wheel put more stress on the hubs because it has thicker hub and use longer bolts? I personally do not think so. adding spacers AND the proper bolts should not be a problem at all either. The bolt often broke not because of the spacers, but because they are not properly torqued or they are just crappy bolts. It has happened to someone running the stock wheels and it has happened to someone with aftermarket wheels. If that is what you guys are worried about the effects of running the spacers. The post from the tundra forum offers valid points it's just how you interpret it. obviously the OP is not trying to make the wheels stick outside the fender.

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[FrankW]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

Because FrankW is a knowledgable guy:
1. that gives him the authority to disseminate other opinions.
2. make other posters (myself included)feel inches tall,
3.and then reply that it was not his intention to correct others?

Maybe he does offer a wealth of knowledge and I myself would concur that is probably more than most C Class owners. But it is the manner he chooses to debate issues that bothers some. FrankW's opening sentence "Why does Brabus, Carlsson etc..." doesn't give the impression of cockiness? I mean why not start off "Hey I disagree, and in my experience there are numerous manufacturers (blah,Blah)...... To me you can prove your point without sounding like a high school debate, or worse fox news.

Sure we have to follow board etiquette, but C55asleep is not alone in this thread. I myself like the saying "Walk softly and carry a big stick"

Now back to Hockey Playoffs

if listing the companies that makes people easier to search the forum is not your style, then I will stop answering and helping out in threads that you or c55asleep posted. I'm sure you two are very knowledgeable and doesn't need other people's help.

I've been corrected in more times you can think of over the period of 6 years owning this car and I've gladly learned from it.

and regarding spacers I'm sure you are against it too right?

[FrankW]

Originally Posted by folex187

Thanx for the info guys. I'm thinking I will try the H&R spacers until I can decide on which drag radial to run during the summer. That brings me to my next question on this topic- if I do run a wider tire (say 255-265) will I still be able to run a spacer or will I be better off going back to the stock setup?

Again thank you for the info,
Alex

if you are running 255s you will be fine without the spacers. if you are going to run the 265s the sidewalls being taller and wider could rub on the inside of the wheel well because the stock setup's offset is pretty tucked in.

[crazeazn]

Originally Posted by FrankW

i don't know if you are agreeing or disagreeing with the first sentence because that pretty much sums up what I said in my post.

so you are saying (for example) if a wheel is 18x8 ET35 in specs that runs the 5mm spacer with the proper bolts will be worse than the 18x8 ET30 wheels that runs the same bolts, but without the spacers? given that the spacers are hub-centric that is designed to fit directly onto the wheel that even has a little screw that securely lock the spacer in place.

I'm not talking about anything other than high quality spacers/adapters here that are designed to be hub-centric. As I mentioned earlier generic spacers can cause vibrations which in long term could lead to damaging suspension parts. If someone is saying they want to slap on a 25mm spacer, then I would tell that person to think twice because that really puts a lot of stress onto the bolts. However for example the 25+mm spacer kit from H&R they are designed to have the spacer bolted onto the hub of the car before the wheels are secured to the spacer.

To answer your question yes. The 18x8 ET35 would cause more stress. Like I said, I dont know that much about the quality or stress tolerances. But from a physics standpoint the vehicle geometry changes. I'm shocked to hear that BBS requires the use of spacers/adaptors too!

I'm asian so this a simple but lame example:

Imagine the equal signs are 'chopsticks' and 'xxx' are your hands. Now imagine that xxx1 is resting on a table with the chopstick underneath while the remainder is dangling over the edge. Its alot easier to break the first chopstick (which your hand is further apart).

xxx1------xxx2
=========

xxx1--xxx2
=========

Throw in the mass of wheel/tire and the force of the suspension travel moving in 3 axis and gravity, that extra 10mm exponentially does make a difference.

I have no doubt that the quality of materials are probably good, otherwise your wheels would have fallen off long ago, but I sincerely believe it adds alot of stress to alot of components besides the bolts hubs and suspension components.

[FrankW]

Originally Posted by c55asleep?

There is no (personal beef) simply in every post that is made FrankW gives negative feedback. Btw just get wheels that are custom made for your car to
avoid having to use spacers

negative feedbacks? sure....if you say so...

OP: is it going to rain today?
1st guy: hm...look at the clouds...it'll rain
2nd guy: yea, I agree...look at the clouds it'll rain
3rd guy: i heard it's going to rain too
4th guy: i read the weather...it won't rain it's just cloudy
1st, 2nd, 3rd guys: once again the smartass said it won't rain...damn it...we feel bad because we didn't read the weather, but lets gang up on him anyway.

[FrankW]

Originally Posted by crazeazn

To answer your question yes. The 18x8 ET35 would cause more stress. Like I said, I dont know that much about the quality or stress tolerances. But from a physics standpoint the vehicle geometry changes. I'm shocked to hear that BBS requires the use of spacers/adaptors too!

I'm asian so this a simple but lame example:

Imagine the equal signs are 'chopsticks' and 'xxx' are your hands. Now imagine that xxx1 is resting on a table with the chopstick underneath while the remainder is dangling over the edge. Its alot easier to break the first chopstick (which your hand is further apart).

xxx1------xxx2
=========

xxx1--xxx2
=========

Throw in the mass of wheel/tire and the force of the suspension travel moving in 3 axis and gravity, that extra 10mm exponentially does make a difference.

I have no doubt that the quality of materials are probably good, otherwise your wheels would have fallen off long ago, but I sincerely believe it adds alot of stress to alot of components besides the bolts hubs and suspension components.

I don't know if I was clear or not, but I was saying that the same wheel design 18x8 ET35 with 5mm hub-centric spacer has the same offset as the 18x8 ET30 and same hub thickness. They also use the same bolts. With the hub-centric spacer the spacer is centered and will not and cannot move. all the force is equally distributed to the hub. So both setup have the exact spec.

I'm not saying that the 5mm spacer actually made the hub on the wheel thicker for the ET35 wheel than then ET30 wheel as you described in your example.

I agree of course if you extend that hub too far with the spacers then you are putting all the stress onto the bolts and the hub. BUT if you have a wheel with the same overly aggressive offset without the use of spacer you are still putting all the stress onto the bolts.

here's what I meant to say with a quick drawing

[crazeazn]

nice diagram frank! i see your point AND you are correct about if a wheel with has an aggressive offset, you are still putting all the excess stress onto the bolts. But adding a spacer/adaptor is just one more piece in the system which makes it worse....

[sdsilverm3]

I don't want to say the argument is pointless but if we're going to get down into physics and all of the engineering jargon, don't you all think BBS, H&R, HRE, and the likes have thought about all of this before they released any of their products to the consumers?

Being as large as they are and the litigious country we live in, I doubt they'd be selling their wheels as such if it was indeed a huge problem.

The debate is good information but I think it is being overanalyzed, by just a tiny bit.

[crazeazn]

Originally Posted by sdsilverm3

I don't want to say the argument is pointless but if we're going to get down into physics and all of the engineering jargon, don't you all think BBS, H&R, HRE, and the likes have thought about all of this before they released any of their products to the consumers?

Being as large as they are and the litigious country we live in, I doubt they'd be selling their wheels as such if it was indeed a huge problem.

The debate is good information but I think it is being overanalyzed, by just a tiny bit.

regardless, I think its great that we are talking about it rather than fighting about it.

[newguy2008]

Does anyone know if running the incorrect tire size in the rear will cause the rear differential to make noises?

Here's my situation:

Running Axis Milano on a CLK 430 - 19 x 8.5 front and 19 x 9.5 Rears with 35 mm offsets on all 4 wheels with Kumho Ecsta SPTs:
- Front 235 35 19 which is the correct size - no issues with them installed.
- Rear 245 35 19 which isn't the ideal size of 265 30 19. - With the 245 35 19s installed, I'm hearing a clicking noise when driving slowly. I don't know if it's a spacer issue since the rims in the rear are 35mm offset and the AMG wheels that came with the car were 30MM offset. If it's a spacer issue, do I need a 5MM Hubcentric one or since it's only 5mm, don't bother with hub centric?

I took one of the rear wheels off and did not notice any severe rubbing.
So, I've narrowed it down to either 5mm spacers or incorrect rear tires.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Is the 265 30 19 that big of a difference that 245 35 19s would cause differential issues???

The wheels look great on the car, but I'm afraid to drive it right now.

By the way, some Kmho Ecsta owners have reported that running 265 30 19 have sight rubbing issues due to the roundness of the Kumhos on MBs.

[1Lop2K5C]

The clicking in the rear at slow speed or at any speed could be your bolts hitting the retention springs for the parking brakes. Did you swap out with longer bolts to run the 5mm spacers?

[newguy2008]

That kind of makes sense as my first thought was that it sounded like it was coming from my parking brake. I thought that it was sticking so I engaged and disengaged it several times.

I'm not running any spacers at all yet. The bolts looked fairly short as it was.

This would also explain why some of the bolts that came with the rims were slightly smaller (2-3 mm?) than the others. I'll check this out tomorrow night. The guy that I purchased the rims from didn't mention this at all.
Thanks.

Originally Posted by 1Lop2K5C

The clicking in the rear at slow speed or at any speed could be your bolts hitting the retention springs for the parking brakes. Did you swap out with longer bolts to run the 5mm spacers?

[dkflipse]

Dude! You need to get this fixed ASAP. I am 99.9% sure it is the bolts rubbing. I had the same problem and ignored it for a few weeks-since it seemed to go away at high speeds. You are running a very big risk of damage/death. Look at the link below below.

http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/c...chmentaspx.jpg

This happened going 5MPH - thank god. All bolts snapped off!!

[newguy2008]

That's scarry!

Good thing that I took the bus to work today - lol - 1st time in a long time.

It was too late in the evening to continue messing around with the wheels.

Tonight though.

Originally Posted by dkflipse

Dude! You need to get this fixed ASAP. I am 99.9% sure it is the bolts rubbing. I had the same problem and ignored it for a few weeks-since it seemed to go away at high speeds. You are running a very big risk of damage/death. Look at the link below below.

http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/c...chmentaspx.jpg

This happened going 5MPH - thank god. All bolts snapped off!!

[newguy2008]

Thanks for the help guys/gals!

It was the locking wheel lug. 2 were shorter at 0.875 of an inch which are supposed to be for the rear and the longer ones at 1.125 inches are for the fronts. I didn't know that there was a difference. But the noise is all gone.

This site is awesome!

I'll post pics later. I must head out to burn some expensive fuel now.

Thanks again!

[newguy2008]

Pics:

[FrankW]

Originally Posted by newguy2008

Thanks for the help guys/gals!

It was the locking wheel lug. 2 were shorter at 0.875 of an inch which are supposed to be for the rear and the longer ones at 1.125 inches are for the fronts. I didn't know that there was a difference. But the noise is all gone.

This site is awesome!

I'll post pics later. I must head out to burn some expensive fuel now.

Thanks again!

glad the problem is fixed

[newguy2008]

Thanks, me too!!!

Originally Posted by FrankW

glad the problem is fixed

[GoPwr]

I am considering purchasing 10mm Front spacers (20556659) and 12mm Rear spacers (2455665) by H&R for a 2005 C55 AMG with stock wheels and tire sizes.

Can anyone provide the correct part number or specifications (taper or round bolt head and shaft length for the required 'longer wheel bolts" ?

As well, does anyone have a preferred vendor for their
1. Tune up (a/b service) parts
2. Performance modification

New here, so HELLO to all !