Risks and benefits of installing a LSD

[hooleyboy]

what kind of negative thing can i run into after installing a LSD in my C55 (other than a wall) just want to know if there are any down sides to adding a LSD. also is my car going to feel better? i mean night and day better if i get an LSD? would you say the LSD is the best upgrade money wise for a C55? Could the LSD get me into the 12's at the drags?

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[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

what kind of negative thing can i run into after installing a LSD in my C55 (other than a wall) just want to know if there are any down sides to adding a LSD. also is my car going to feel better? i mean night and day better if i get an LSD? would you say the LSD is the best upgrade money wise for a C55? Could the LSD get me into the 12's at the drags?

You know what's funny at the shop visit at Renntech this past Saturday, the lead sales guy said the Quaife LSD is a waste of money. Also he claimed you cant compare a $2k LSD with a $6k from AMG???? I assume he meant the p30 package available on other cars. I was surprised at his comments that the Quaife in his mind was not worth the money and your better off leaving the car stock. Mind you he also claimed that their pulley and ECU development had spent tens of thousands of hours on the Dyno.

I know the LSD from other AMG C class owners claim it's the best mod out there. I wish I could pony the $$$ for one

[hooleyboy]

I dont really know much about LSD's just wondering if there is someone on the forum that has one in there C-class that could give an honest review of it. I think all people before that through down $1500 for a part want to know if its worth it or just something thats going to open up a can of worms.

[c32AMG-DTM]

c32used started a thread "who desires a Quaife LSD" or something like that - several posts also mention their car's performance post-install. You should probably talk directly with C55asleep? since his feedback would probably be the most relevant.

[turbo16lbs]

I believe C55Asleep? Could elaborate a little more on the subject. He recently fitted his c55 with a Quaife and its nothing but good comments from what I heard from him.

[MRAMG1]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

what kind of negative thing can i run into after installing a LSD in my C55 (other than a wall) just want to know if there are any down sides to adding a LSD. also is my car going to feel better? i mean night and day better if i get an LSD? would you say the LSD is the best upgrade money wise for a C55? Could the LSD get me into the 12's at the drags?

Acoording to MANY posts on the E55 site, One in particular, stated " MADE NO difference in the 1/4 mile, period." Did I mention he is already in the HIGH 11's
The ONLY down side I can see, which is why I haven't done it yet, is to your wallet. $1500 + $700 install, WAY too steep for a simple posi. The car will certainly be MORE predictable around bends, can you say power sliding, and of course on rainy/snowy raods. If you drive it during these conditions. For everyday driving you will never even know it is there.

I personally want one for raod racing, but again, NOT at that price. It should make a nice difference coming out of corners HARD, and of course track a little straighter off line.

See yeah

[c32used]

Originally Posted by MRAMG1

The ONLY down side I can see, which is why I haven't done it yet, is to your wallet. $1200-1500 + $500-700 install, WAY too steep for a simple posi.

See yeah

+1

This is the only negative...price to get and install...C55asleep?? had nothing but rave reviews about the Quaife...if you seek autoX and lower dragtimes then get it if not then just get sticky tires/DRs to dragrace and better tires for the streets these are things you will need and then the electronic "fake" LSD will be better.

[c55asleep?]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

what kind of negative thing can i run into after installing a LSD in my C55 (other than a wall) just want to know if there are any down sides to adding a LSD. also is my car going to feel better? i mean night and day better if i get an LSD? would you say the LSD is the best upgrade money wise for a C55? Could the LSD get me into the 12's at the drags?

If you got some performance stuff done to your car you will need due to the extra torque you're putting down. I did not think the LSD was going to be no benefit until I went to the 1/4 track and witnessed that one tire (left) would stop spinning when perfroming at power brake. Later I saw it in the video. Btw on the day of 360 track rental last week several MB owners were hanging out the door to see there tire also stopped. No offense to these guys as I had the same problem until the LSD. If you're looking for a good track time then its worth it. Hope that helps. If you give me a chance I will post a pic of the stock diff.

[c32used]

Originally Posted by c55asleep?

If you got some performance stuff done to your car you will need due to the extra torque you're putting down. I did not think the LSD was going to be no benefit until I went to the 1/4 track and witnessed that one tire (left) would stop spinning when perfroming at power brake. Later I saw it in the video. Btw on the day of 360 track rental last week several MB owners were hanging out the door to see there tire also stopped. No offense to these guys as I had the same problem until the LSD. If you're looking for a good track time then its worth it. Hope that helps. If you give me a chance I will post a pic of the stock diff.

I feel he is very correct also...in stock form the "fake" LSD works fine but a need for better AutoX...even modded C32s work but wheel spin hampers the times...but the more you mod the wheel spin is increased dramatically thus times and traps don't add up the same...if you don't plan on using it for anything other then daily driving then its not needed imo....I to feel that my car will do better with the Quaife LSD but just not ready to get one yet...

[03MBC32]

Originally Posted by hooleyboy

what kind of negative thing can i run into after installing a LSD in my C55 (other than a wall) just want to know if there are any down sides to adding a LSD. also is my car going to feel better? i mean night and day better if i get an LSD? would you say the LSD is the best upgrade money wise for a C55? Could the LSD get me into the 12's at the drags?

I just had my Quafe installed last week. As others have noted, biggest drawback is $. One other small negative is a miniscule more differential friction as the Quaife has more moving parts. The Quaife is also slightly heavier, though I do not think that the added friction and weight would be measureable or noticeable.

I'm happy that I can now apply more aggresive acceleration during turns or from a stop without heavy interaction of the traction control system, which I leave on. I still see the yellow warning indicator light up but there is no application of the brakes or a cut in engine power so far. I haven't given the car a heavy work out yet. One other benefit for me is added traction in the winter.

[TemjinX2]

i think its only worth it if your going to add a lot of power. Who ever thats salesmen told you the amg lsd is better then the quaife is on crack.

Quaife has a long standing reputation of making quality products for high hp cars.

Especially in the import world, there 800hp civics and 1000hp supras all use quaife lsds. They come with life time warranty, so if it breaks at the track they'll give you a another one long as you send in the the broken one. They want the broken one so they can study why it broke in the first place.

if planning on turbing or supercharging and adding a lot of hp, its definately worth the lsd to put all the power to the ground. But other then thats its not really worth it for a daily driver unless you auto x a lot. It does help with traction on the track and drags, but not worth it unless your putting down a lot of power.

[FrankW]

to each his own, but unless you frequent AutoX or dragstrip often LSD is hardly needed for everyday usage. plus this is one of the most expensive mods for the w203 in general. you might want to think long and hard if you really need it or if you just want it because the car doesn't have one.

[Lenin]

Originally Posted by FrankW

to each his own, but unless you frequent AutoX or dragstrip often LSD is hardly needed for everyday usage. plus this is one of the most expensive mods for the w203 in general. you might want to think long and hard if you really need it or if you just want it because the car doesn't have one.

Most of the people don't need an AMG for everyday usage. But some do. It sounds like you are just trying to talk yourself out buying one. In my case the LSD and the PSS9 where the two mods that improved the car by a lot and were well worth the $4000 all together.

[jywang]

There is another downside of installing the LSD... bad gas mileage.

I think the LSD doubled the weight of my lead foot leading to a significant drop in gas mileage.

[FrankW]

Originally Posted by Lenin

Most of the people don't need an AMG for everyday usage. But some do. It sounds like you are just trying to talk yourself out buying one. In my case the LSD and the PSS9 where the two mods that improved the car by a lot and were well worth the $4000 all together.

how is LSD compared to AMG? don't need to talk myself out of buying one. when they are cheap enough I will get one. The $2k plus price tag can easily be invested in other stuff not just on cars. As I said, "to each his own".

[frimmelnojerz]

Originally Posted by jywang

There is another downside of installing the LSD... bad gas mileage.

I think the LSD doubled the weight of my lead foot leading to a significant drop in gas mileage.

hahaha thats your fault though!!

[c32used]

Originally Posted by Lenin

Most of the people don't need an AMG for everyday usage. But some do. It sounds like you are just trying to talk yourself out buying one. In my case the LSD and the PSS9 where the two mods that improved the car by a lot and were well worth the $4000 all together.

I have to defend Frank on this but no comparison between LSD and AMG... I bought the car without a LSD and to me the "fake" electronic LSD made me think the car was posie...until I joined this board I never knew what the Quaife was..as I stated prior...if you use the car mostly as a daily driver then why buy a LSD? But if you want the most of AutoX and Drag racing then yes its highly recommended...even when modding it should be on most peoples list but this car needs other mods that help it better like a higher capacity I/C pump and Heat exchanger to help prevent heatsoak...a Quaife won't prevent that but like I said a Quaife should be on everyones mod list but last in my opinion.....by the way there are better things I can do with 4k then just LSD and good tires...

[ArsnlKen]

Hey fellas. Just wanted to give ya'll a quick kudos. C32 I posted a thanks to u on the 'one stop search' site. Obviously u had rookies like me in mind! And Frank,u r my new hero! I have the "Traction" mag w/u & ur ride in it & all I can say is I CANNOT WAIT to start modding my C! I think I've worn out the pages w/u & the car on it & I will diligently be at work EVERYDAY until I can afford to do even just a fraction of the killer upgrades that u & the others here have done! Wish I was rich dammit! I've loved my car since obtaining it but u have REALLY inspired me to make it even better! Luv u boys & props to all u other modders as well! Thanks again men!

[PC Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by c32used

....I bought the car without a LSD and to me the "fake" electronic LSD made me think the car was posie....

Let's be clear.....the C32 does NOT come with the electronic pseudo LSD. When you press ESP "off", you are left with an open differential and all the problems of the inside tire spinning during hard cornering under power. Only the C55 and AMG cars introduced afterwards came with the electronic traction control system which tries to mimic a mechanical LSD (which only applies when you press the ESP "off" button). This exactly the type of system which comes with the BMW 135i; what the BMW forum folks call the "E-diff".

[c32used]

FrankW I keep hearing you and your car in a magazine care to elaborate?

[c32used]

Originally Posted by PC Valkyrie

Let's be clear.....the C32 does NOT come with the electronic pseudo LSD. When you press ESP "off", you are left with an open differential and all the problems of the inside tire spinning during hard cornering under power. Only the C55 and AMG cars introduced afterwards came with the electronic traction control system which tries to mimic a mechanical LSD (which only applies when you press the ESP "off" button). This exactly the type of system which comes with the BMW 135i; what the BMW forum folks call the "E-diff".

I said "fake" LSD cause someone on this mentioned it but thanks for the headsup. So with ESP off it becomes an open diff and dual burnout lines are common? I leave 2 marks on the streets atleast 10-15' long...when I turn on Dyno Mode its a massive 1 wheel spin. Please help me understand?

[FrankW]

Originally Posted by ArsnlKen

Hey fellas. Just wanted to give ya'll a quick kudos. C32 I posted a thanks to u on the 'one stop search' site. Obviously u had rookies like me in mind! And Frank,u r my new hero! I have the "Traction" mag w/u & ur ride in it & all I can say is I CANNOT WAIT to start modding my C! I think I've worn out the pages w/u & the car on it & I will diligently be at work EVERYDAY until I can afford to do even just a fraction of the killer upgrades that u & the others here have done! Wish I was rich dammit! I've loved my car since obtaining it but u have REALLY inspired me to make it even better! Luv u boys & props to all u other modders as well! Thanks again men!

thanks for the kind words...but that's not me in the mag...that's my car in the mag tho... not rich here either...spent 4 yrs on this car since starting modding it.

[FrankW]

Originally Posted by c32used

I said "fake" LSD cause someone on this mentioned it but thanks for the headsup. So with ESP off it becomes an open diff and dual burnout lines are common? I leave 2 marks on the streets atleast 10-15' long...when I turn on Dyno Mode its a massive 1 wheel spin. Please help me understand?

I thought the C32 had a open diff too. I think the reason we're able to put down two lines is because with the ESP off we're not really turning it off, but just giving it more allowance to spin the wheels without the computer cutting the power off. The computer would still cut power to either wheels to make both side spins at the same rate. In the dyno mode everything is turned off which ever wheel has less traction would just spin.

does the C55 have the mimic LSD...i have no clue. I know the 135i and 335i doesn't, but they sure have a kick *** traction control program that does a damn good job at pretending. I think the C55 just have a better ESP software than the C32 that's all. mechanical difference I somehow doubt it if you don't have the P30 package you can get in Europe.

as for the magazine...I was asked to be in the feature for Traction magazine. The photoshoot they did for my car just came out in the May/June issue. MJ50 did a scan on the article and posted. Was just gonna keep it on the DL actually.

[c32used]

Originally Posted by FrankW

I thought the C32 had a open diff too. I think the reason we're able to put down two lines is because with the ESP off we're not really turning it off, but just giving it more allowance to spin the wheels without the computer cutting the power off. The computer would still cut power to either wheels to make both side spins at the same rate. In the dyno mode everything is turned off which ever wheel has less traction would just spin.

does the C55 have the mimic LSD...i have no clue. I know the 135i and 335i doesn't, but they sure have a kick *** traction control program that does a damn good job at pretending. I think the C55 just have a better ESP software than the C32 that's all. mechanical difference I somehow doubt it if you don't have the P30 package you can get in Europe.

as for the magazine...I was asked to be in the feature for Traction magazine. The photoshoot they did for my car just came out in the May/June issue. MJ50 did a scan on the article and posted. Was just gonna keep it on the DL actually.

Nothing wrong with being a little modest I know I sure would...

Thanks for the info as I am learning things about this car alll the time..

[splinter]

Mine will burn a healthy pair when it’s pointed straight ahead on level pavement. There is no ‘peg leg’ live axle effect owing to its IRS. No disrespect intended.

At our local Willow Springs road course, with ESP switched off, it’ll easily spin the inside rear while powering through the ~75 MPH turn two and up the hill toward 4. Cresting turn 6, where it becomes unloaded regardless of its selected line, LSD would also be a worthwhile addition on the launch toward the (time saving) fastest portion of the track.

Originally Posted by PC Valkyrie

...Dynamic Control Systems:
Compared to the C32, all of the C55's dynamic-handling control systems, such as the ABS anti-lock braking system, the braking assistant, the ASR acceleration skid control system, and the ESP, were reworked and modified in comprehensive calculations and test drives. For example, the acceleration skid control system now has a traction function when the ESP is shut off. When a car enters a curve at high speed, the system determines when the back tire on the inside part of the curve starts to slip and can brake it to a precisely calculated degree without throttling back the power. The effect that is created corresponds to that of a mechanical locking differential and promotes the traction of the driven wheels.