Sirpent

Hi,

I realise that this thread and my patronage on this site may incur the wrath of many a reader and be considered sacrilege, so should it disappear and my membership to the forum revoked, please know that I totally understand and appreciate the reasons for it.

I have followed this forum for the better part of the last year as a guest, but due to the increasing need for knowledge as my project progresses I decided to join in the hope that some of the problems I encounter may be answered by many of the forums astute members.

I do own a C32 so to say, well at least part of one, I purchased a 2003 E32 AMG motor and box some months ago which are being transplanted into a 1975 260Z, yes I can hear the gasps as you read this, but a buddy of mine is also working on his transplant being a BMW M3 which he just fired up for the first time a few days ago, we are probably best known as the Bavarian chapter on our home S30 forum.

So if you all don't mind me being here, asking the occasional question, and would like to see a future E32 AMG powered 260Z whip the hide off a M3 powered 240Z sometime in the near future , then please accept my apologies and also thanks up front.

The coding for my ride therefore has changed from being an RS30 to an RS32, hope that makes some sense.

Also, before you all reach for an in flight sick bag you have tucked away somewhere, just a bit of history, the Datsun L6 Z motors were derived from the Prince motor companies L6 motor, in 1966 Prince Motor Company merged with Datsun, at the time of the merger, Prince was licensed to produce copies of Mercedes-Benz' four and six-cylinder engines, Prince Motor Company later refined the design that it no longer needed licensing therefore the engine still resembles a Mercedes in many ways, particularly the valve train.

So lets just say that I'm doing a retro fit in more ways than one, history kind of repeating itself.

Cheers

John

loudandheard

How much do you think the car will weigh with the engine? Sounds like an awesome project and I would love to see some pics. A few questions, are you retaining the stock ecu or are you going to use stand alone? A cool idea would be to integrate the eis(electronic ignition system) and even the tachometer from the engine in to your car. You could even use a mercedes key and ignition.

MIKESV8

what are you talking about? your idea is ****!

Sirpent

Phewwwww

I was waiting for the knives to start flying, just a heads up, I actually have a design engineering background and worked for benz in australia, so one of the reasons for the choice of drivetrains.

OK, no so as to bypass the security features intergrated into the benz ECM and ignition components, I am having the ECM modified to a freerunner, therefore no problems with direct plug and play as the immobiliser coding has been deleted.

Second, the C32 in metric terms weighs in at a dry weight of 1850 Kg's, my 75 Z weighs in at a dry weight of 1100 Kg's, the E32 is actually lighter with the trans than the Z's set up, so with the other mods as far as the chassis is concerned, Im tipping at around a 1350 Kg dry weight, to put it into your terms, 100 kg's is around 220 lbs, so I would be running at around 1100 lbs lighter than a C32 sedan, think you know what that will mean as far as performance.

Tachometer is some way off at this stage and will decide what to do down the track,

I will be running a R200 LSD diff which will be good for 600 bhp, and is almost line ball as far as ratio as the C32 diff, so performance up top end should be line ball.

Will post a few pics up of the motor and chassis as time progress', just want to make sure the moderators on this site are OK with all this first.

Cheers

John

Mark.D

what is an "2003 E32 motor" ?

loudandheard

Outside of the U.S. they produced an E class with a supercharged 3.2 liter. The car was an E32 AMG

Guess I was wrong, I could have sworn that they put an m112k into a w211.

Sirpent

The 3.2 litre engine used in the C32 SLK32 and the SRT6 are coded as being from the M112 series of engines, there were 4 versions and 3 capacities each coded as follows

E26 being a 2.6 L NA mtor

E32 being a 3.2 L NA motor

E32 AMG being a 3.2 L supercharged version

E37 being a 3.7 L NA motor

Here are a few pics of my motor prior to packaging and shipping from the U.S. (currently in transit)

Cheers

John

Sirpent

And a couple of the chassis which is awaiting the drivetrains arrival so a test fit can be done to determine positioning and additional chassis work, Im also building a mock up nose which will them be reproduced in Carbon Fibre.

chris.bachman

Stop typing and start turning wrenches, I want to see this b@stard child sooner rather than later.

Sirpent

You and I both, however motor and trans are still in transit but I promise that once they arrive progress should be swift, stay tuned.......

Cheers

Newzchspy

OK, I see what you're trying to do here. However, whats the point? Won't that be a "nose heavy" understeering *******?? What are you doing about engine mounts, driveshaft, cooling (radiator and HE for IC). Seems to be you're probably looking at a 65/35 F/R weight ratio on that car. In addition to that, traction issues? I've heard of V-8s in that chassis but there were weight issues as well as clearance.

I know some friends on other forums who stuff V-8s (Ls1) into them etc etc. There's a whole lot of work to be done after that and most are drag cars and NOT street legal as well.

Me, I'd just find me a 3.7 NA and throw an SC on it and put it in that C32 of yours. EDIT: Sorry, I see you don't own a C32, BUT that's OK too!!! Still don't get the point as the 260 is not an exceptionally well handling car??

pww

I'm extremely excited for this

02C32guy

That engine looks brand new.

Koru_Kinshi

I think the only heretic thing I'd do is take a Lotus Elise, remove that God forsaken wheeze bag 2ZZ motor and swap in an M111 engine with some actual torque.

Phin

OP,good luck with your project,it sounds great. Do you know which M3 engine your buddy is going to use? S54 or S65 or...? Just curious...looking forward to your updates...

Mark.D

They produced a limited edition E32 AMG for the W210 body, but it didn't have the M112k engine. It was an N/A version.

He must have been referring to the "E32 AMG version of the M112 engine"

DuaneC63

I'm not appalled at all. If you do all your own work and fabrication (or find a kit) it can be lots of fun. A long time ago we used to drop small block chevy's and trannies into Mark X Jags. One of my more crazier freinds dropped a small block chevy into a early 70's 911. None of this is any different than Shelby used to do dropping smalll block and large block Fords into Sunbeams and AC's. Every pre war Ford hot rod I've seen has a Chevy in it. It must be substancially more expensive and difficult now with ECU coding and smog compliance issues.

Sirpent

This is going to be a long reply to you all, hope you enjoy reading...........

First of all I need to address some of the concerns you have........

ENGINE MOUNTS: I will be running a chromeoly full length lattice chassis along the length of the vehicle, this will assist obviously in dealing with the torsional forces of the torque the motor will develop but also allow me to fabricate key mounting points along it to facilitate the mounting of the motor and gear box, with the original L6 motor, overhang over the cross member means that mounting the E32 in the same location would put it significantly forward and in turn drag half the box into the bay, this would also translate to an unfavourable front to rear weight distribution.


To counter this and also to accommodate the box which is short but robust in size, I will be using a cradle configuration, or in simpler terms a quad mount member, this will allow me to also utilise the original Benz mounts and have the motor positioned afar back as possible toward the firewall / bulkhead.

UDERSTEER : I believe this wont be a problem what so ever.

DRIVE SHAFT: Hybrid custom item using forward Benz components and allowing me to utilise the R200 LSD

COOLING : because of the deck height of the upper locking panel on the radiator support panel, using a Benz item is not possible, neither would be using a 1970’s Nissan rad, therefore once again custom fabricated all alloy item will be used.


INTERCOOLER & HEAT EXCHANGE : All OEM Benz equipment, the pictures shown of the motor and trans are just that, there is a load of items such as the heat exchange associated plumbing and pump that are also en-route, considering the length of the front of this car and the new motor, there will be ample room to mount all associated hardware comfortably.


TRACTION ISSUES : Um well yes, "Isnt it great !" it be fun to drive and a return to better days in some ways…..


LEGAILTY : Well all I can say is that Australian authorities and our boys in Blue are VERY diligent when it comes to modified vehicles, and there are a very high proportion of converted V8 Z’s over here, however, these cars are all engineered, and because Z’s are no longer common, these cars now fetch upwards of $20K - $100K in restored or highly hybrid form, I doubt that there are more than 500 left over here, so when these cars are restored or as in my case modified, they are engineered for road use, engineering certification on this car will probably run me close to $15K.
Under the regs here, a convoluted formula dictates what you can and cannot install, in my case because the car was 1100Kg out of the factory, the formula dictates that the maximum capacity, not HP that the car is allowed to have installed in Forced Induction is 3.5L, had I gone for an aspirated injected V8 I could have gone 6L+, so why do what everyone else does, 3.2L of AMG Supercharged heaven will do me fine.

HANDELLING : Yes in todays terms with 1975 suspension, it would be a dog, however you would be surprised whats available for these cars now, you have to remember any car can be made to handle for road or track, in my case its road and I’m already $8K into a $15K upgrade, down the track you will see what I mean.


But I’m sure you are still scratching your head, WHY?, well I could afford to by a C32, and probably even better, but this is a beast of my own creation, blood sweat and tears and there is no greater feeling than turning the key on something you have built yourself then leaving every man and his dog in your wake.


DuaneC63 !


Last point sums up what you mentioned in your post, as JFK said.....


“We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too”


PHIN !


I will leave you in suspense but also give you the link to his build page on the “Z” Forum, his name is David same age as myself, was a mechanic 20 years ago but is off the tools and in management now, great guy very switched on and very pedantic, you will see what I mean, the thread has a link to his Youtube video of the engines start up, enjoy


http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.p....html#msg91250


02C32guy !


Engine was prepped for export, Customs here are treacherous when it comes to imported motors so much so I purchased a new plastic pallet from DACO in Washington State and had it shipped to the seller so I wouldn’t have any drama’s with infestation claims by Customs when it gets here, all fluids were drained, the units cleaned and packaged, the motor came out of a 63K U.S. C32.

Pww!


Thanks, I’m excited also.


Koru_Kinshi


Nice touch with the Lotus idea, maybe I have inspired you to some extent?


Mark.D


Let’s just refer to it as a C32 engine from here on in LOL

Thanks for all the posts, I really feel honoured, but I will be posting some questions of my own soon also and look forward to some advice.


Cheers


John

Sirpent

Hi guys

OK, my first question for you all, has anyone here actually purchased one of these ?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MERCEDES-...8#ht_500wt_922

If so, whats the verdict, is this as comprehensive as the advertiser claims ?

Cheers

John

Autotechnica

Can I ask the reasoning behind why you chose this motor? It just seems like an overpriced project for no reason. You could have far more efficient and cheaper motors to swap into that chassis that wouldn't require even 1/4 of the electronics that this motor would. I understand that you like a challege. However, there are so many chassis's that you could pick from. Is it because you really like how the old Z's look? I'm currently doing a Volvo 740 chassis build and it has a 5.0L supercharged mustang motor. Not very original but the motor suits the chassis. It's simple, few electronics and very easy to tune. The motors are reliable and a dime a dozen. In the future, when the prices come down I'll be looking to swap some sort of vette motor into it and go forced induction as well.

Anyways, whatever your reasoning, very cool project. Personally, I would have gone with a different motor.

Bry

loudandheard

I purchased something like that, but it did not give me a lot of part numbers or torque values. They do give you the basics on how things work and how to problem solve.

Sirpent

Thanks Loud,

Form what is described in his advertisment this seems to be a bit more comprehensive though.

OK Bry,

I will try to explain this from a number of levels.

First, Im 46, not some Tokyo drift want to be, so taking on this project with all of its complexities is to a degree therapy away from my corporate life.

2nd, I have had this car for 28 years, I was 18 when I first purchased it and yes I love the classic shape.

Last and most importantly, if I had gone the other way, it would have been pumping at least $15K into the original L6 running triple 45DCOE Webers only to have achieved 60% at best the power and acceleration this car will be capable of, therefore for a turn key solution I couldnt imagine much better within a 6cyl configuration.

The electronics here are not that much a complexity at all in reality, and my Benz-Mechanic (Ex dealer mechanic) thinks its going to be a sight when I role up to a Benz dealer and ask to book the car in for a tune and service once its done, he insists he wont touch it till I do that LOL

Dollar for HP its a great package.

Cheers

John

pww

^ Makes me more excited ha you are doing it for all the right reasons. Any idea for a time frame?

Sirpent

I would have to be realistic and say that I should have the motor and trans along with chassis mods installed in the rolloing chassis by years end at this stage.

The certification process to get it past the bench tesing it will need to undergo are pretty complex.

Cheers

John

c32used

As you can see we don't have limited mindsets here we welcome all cars especially those with our power plants..subscribed with can't wait to see attitude!