C43 '55' swap thread

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by money-one Also there isn't much demand for C43 engines so don't expect to receive much. This is the w202 V8 lower oil pan configuration. Notice how it leaves room for the sway bar. This is achieved by the upper oil pan setting the lower one back a few inches. The Clk and E have the exact same pans. This is the lower pan 215,220,163. There is a slight chance it will fit in but will be very close to the sway bar if installed in a w202. Swapping the C43 pan to these engines is not a big deal but when exchanging the oil pumps you need to swap pickups off of the pump because one is lower than the other. This applies to the other chassis you mentioned as direct bolt in. Just something to think about when your locating engines. Fantastic info bro. My engine comes from an E55 so alot was not required. If one follows these simple instructions that you have listed here they will be good to go.

To remove this ad, register today or login if you already are registered!

[money-one]

Correction.... The engine you source retains the oil pump portion that bolts to the block because the 43 one doesn't mate up correctly. The pickup is swaped and the upper oil pan needs to be ground down slightly where it contacts the pump. Nothing that will affect the sealing just to allow for clearance.

I can't believe no one has run in to that issue and posted. Or maybe they did and chose not to.

Any information put out there that helps in making decisions with the direction you want to go with your car is good info.

[ECTurboGSX]

Good info since my engine is from an S55. I won't be working on it until I move in the Spring. Thanks.

[Saaboteur]

Money-one, what about the 55 engines from W203 C55s and R171 SLK55s? Do you know if these will pop right in as well, or will the same sump issues come into play?

[money-one]

To be honest I don't run across many 171,203,463 55's but it pretty much applies to the other vehicles.

If you find an engine from a ME 2.8 and are going to swap harness to retain the ME 2.0 their are two different components with different connectors. The throttle body and the coil packs. Just check these prior to disposing of the 43 engine. Also check your alternator connections

[Saaboteur]

Originally Posted by ProjectC55

Nope! It's a a metal fitting on the back of the C43 cylinder head. You would pluck out the Freeze plug out the back of the 5.4L head and tap this water fitting in. The E55 and C43 both use the same MAF.

Okay! How about this one, is this the fitting you mean?

[503C43 ////AMG]

I have PM'd the moderators to make this thread a sticky as there is good info in this thread. Everyone should PM the moderators until they make this thread a sticky.

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by Saaboteur

Okay! How about this one, is this the fitting you mean?

Yep that's it!!!

[Saaboteur]

Yay for the thread being made into a sticky!

I was going to edit one of my first posts to consolidate some of the information from Money-one and ProjectC55, but looks like it's not possible now because of time elapsed.

So instead, here are those few tips mentioned:

The heater core feed connector from the C43's head must be swapped to the 55 engine's head (see posts #10, 13, 31 and 33 for deets - thanks to ProjectC55 for this info).

W210 E55 and W208 (209 too?) CLK55 engines are 100% drop in, and thus most desirable. However, engines from other acceptable donor cars should not be ruled out, as they will just require a bit of work to fit, due to potential front roll bar clearance issues (see posts #22, 25 and 27 for details). Thanks to Money-one for this info.

Also, if the donor car is equipped with Bosch ME 2.8 engine management (as opposed to the C43's ME 2.0) then one must keep a keen eye on the throttle body, coil pack and alternator connections on the engine wiring harness. The 2.8 connectors are different from the 2.0 connectors. If the donor engine is stripped already, then one must 'dress' the engine with the C43's accessories anyway, so not a big deal. However, if the engine is already dressed, then it is likely that these few components may need to be swapped over from the C43's original engine to ensure everything connects and fires up when the 55 is dropped in. Clearly, it is much easier to swap components on an engine when it is out of the car, as opposed to doing it in situ. From previous experience with my Saabs, something that is a 10 minute job when the engine is out can be 2-3 hours (and a whole lot more cursing) with the engine in the car simply because of the lack of space. Thanks again to Money-one for this info, and see post #30 for details.

Also, Money-one has suggested replacing the circulation pump and idler pulley with the engine out, again for ease of installation with the engine out as opposed to it being a pain with the engine still in the car. See post #22 for details on that.

Finally, a conclusive note on engine management.

Years ago, I knew a guy who desired to swap a motor from an E46 3-series into his '88 E30. I don't know enough BMW nomenclature to give details of the swap, but if memory serves, the donor car was an early '00s straight 6 with 200ish hp. My mechanic friend (not the owner of the car) actually did the work. I remember him literally sitting there for two full days with the original wiring harness pulled apart, being mated up to a harness off the donor car. It was a nightmare, and a testament to my friend's capabilities that the car ran faultlessly - and the original gauges all worked! - however it was not something I wished to do. Ever.

However, as outline by ProjectC55 in another thread (http://www.mbworld.org/forums/c36-am...ce-5-4l-2.html), and in post #16 and elsewhere in this thread, the C43's stock engine management can stay in place. At the very minimum, his car, plus of course Money-one's originally, Speedybenz and c55m8o (from the club202 forums, don't think he posts here much anymore) run their cars with the original engine management (and transmission). I'm still impressed by how 'malleable' the standard engine management apparently is, being able to accommodate another 1100cc displacement. But hey, if it works for them, then it should work for everyone.

It should be noted that Money-one's car is not running a naturally aspirated 55 engine anymore; rather he has transplanted the supercharged 55 motor into his car. That swap is outside the bounds of this thread, as it involves quite a bit more work, especially on the engine management side.

With most swaps, physically bolting the donor engine into the original car is the (relatively) easy part, and sorting out engine management is the hard part, especially with modern electronics which integrate other features (braking, transmissions, stability control, traction control, etc). The C43 '55' swap requires none of this tomfoolery, therefore making it easy-peasy, lemon-squeezy. I am hunting for a suitable engine as we speak!

Next, I wouldn't mind hearing some input on the swappability of transmissions from other cars. From what I gather, the W210 E55's transmission will bolt in. I suspect the CLK55, SLK55 and W203 C55 would also go into the C43, but they would likely lose their 'Speedshift' function. I doubt the ML55 or G55's all wheel drive transmissions would work, but it would be lovely to have an all wheel drive, W202 C55 - it would really wipe the smiles off S4 owners....

[LantanaML320]

I am envious of you guys since this really has to be the easiest swap you can do to a MB compared to what I had to do with the Crossfires. I am still running the V6 Trans which is also a 722.6 Trans. It is believed that the V6 Trans has a weaker clutch pack but I haven't been able to hurt it after 10,000 miles. If I were you guys I would suggest you don't change the trans. You already have one that can handle the power and the one you buy may not be any stronger. The 722.6 Trans is also behind the Srt8 hemis. If you change transmission and the gear ratios are different you can run into problems and may have to run a different transmisson computer.

The bottom line is this is a very easy swap if you keep it simple. Any 55 will work. Any part that is differnt can be swaped from the C43 engine. As mentioned above some 55's will require more swapped parts than others. Swapping the part is not a big deal if done out of the car. I did change my idler pulley because it was starting to make some noise. It only takes a minute to change out of the car.

If you keep is simple this is a very simple swap.

Any decent headers available? the only one I have seen for the C43 is a little bit bettter exhaust manifold. I would get a true header witha collector which is how scavenging is most effective. Headers would be something to consider with the engine out!

[Saaboteur]

I think Kleeman makes headers, but a) their site says it requires cutting and welding, b) they list for like 1200 Euro and c) their application list says for 430 and 500 M113 engines.

[LantanaML320]

Originally Posted by Saaboteur

I think Kleeman makes headers, but a) their site says it requires cutting and welding, b) they list for like 1200 Euro and c) their application list says for 430 and 500 M113 engines.

I didn't see Kleeman listing anything for the W202 chassis. I just spoke to a fab shop here in Dallas and they would build equal length stainless long tube headers for $2,400 for the first set and the price would drop a bunch after the first set. I have only seen AMS for the C43 and I don't think the gain of that type of header is worth it. Boosted 55's have seen an additional 40 hp with long tube headers. BTW, C43 headers would fit a my V8 Crossfire and of course would also fit a 55 in a C43.

[Saaboteur]

Once again, I suppose we need to ask Money-one which specific headers he has. In this link http://www.mbworld.org/forums/4046712-post208.html he said he acquired Kleeman headers.

[ProjectC55]

Originally Posted by Saaboteur

Next, I wouldn't mind hearing some input on the swappability of transmissions from other cars. From what I gather, the W210 E55's transmission will bolt in. I suspect the CLK55, SLK55 and W203 C55 would also go into the C43, but they would likely lose their 'Speedshift' function. I doubt the ML55 or G55's all wheel drive transmissions would work, but it would be lovely to have an all wheel drive, W202 C55 - it would really wipe the smiles off S4 owners....

Once this motor is put in your car you would be hardpressed like I am to sell it. You just become amazed at how the car becomes totally transformed almost like buying a newer and faster car.

You will annhilate V8 RS4's and some stg3 audi S4 V6 TT's. You will scare E90 M3's ,the IS-F and give E39 M5's and modded srt8's a nice challenge or should I say drivers race. Ask me how I know

Kleeman in Colorado claims that they don't sell the C43/CLK headers anymore because of the low demand and age of the car. I have a set on my car. There is a guy with a W208 CLK55 that made his own headers which are ten x's better than the Kleeman headers. He has a mid to low 12 sec N/A CLK55. Look him up in the CLK55 forum I think his handle there is Black CLK. He lives in PA I think. "FOUND and search his threads" http://www.mbworld.org/forums/clk55-...-n-record.html

My friend who put the engine in my car mentioned to me that he could easily put the speed shift in my 98 C but why would I want it?

I shift my car on ocasion and she runs beautifully.

[money-one]

The 203 and the 209 are virtually the same vehicle so the pans should be the same. A Clk55 209 came in today and would require the pan swap and whole oil pump swap with possibly the chain. Ran across this when I helped swap a N/A 55 into an SL500 (230). They use a low profile pump and the chain is shorter.

Kleemann headers are virtually the only off the shelf good exhaust you can buy. That is to say if they are still available. Making true long tube headers would be really difficult when getting around the steering box. One would need to convert their drag link assembly to a steering rack first to get the best design.

[MarcusF]

If someone were paid for the Kleemann specs, a pair of factory manifolds were used for flange samples, a call was placed to stainless, and a C43 was used for a sample - someone might be able to go into the C43 header business. I'm sure one of the cold weather guys needs a winter project.

[DRBC43AMG]

Now that is a great idea...

[ECTurboGSX]

MoneyOne, when swapping an NA S55 engine in, I'm going to need to replace the oil pump and timing chain as well as the pan and pick up? Thanks.

[money-one]

Only applies to the low profile upper pan found on the 209 and possibly 203 55's

[503C43 ////AMG]

Originally Posted by MarcusF

If someone were paid for the Kleemann specs, a pair of factory manifolds were used for flange samples, a call was placed to stainless, and a C43 was used for a sample - someone might be able to go into the C43 header business. I'm sure one of the cold weather guys needs a winter project.

According to my local kleeman dealer/installer the kleeman headers are still available but are not cheap:


"Hi Jason,

Here are the estimated prices for you;

ECU; $1095 + $45 labor + $90 shipping (next day both ways, about 3days downtime as ECU has to go to Kleemann USA in CO) = $1230

Headers, $1495 + $630 in labor = $2125



Cams; $2290 + ~$792 in labor = ~$3082

Supercharger; $8995 + ~$5000 labor/extra parts = ~$14,000 (please keep in mind that an ECU Flash should accompany the s/c kit so if you go with the ECU Flash to begin with, then add the s/c, you’d be looking at a second $1095 ECU Flash charge).

LSD; $945 + ~$540 in labor = ~$1485

Please let me know how we can help.

Best regards,

Jeremy Williams
Matrix Integrated Inc.
4000 SW Macadam Ave
Portland, OR 97239
503.443.1141 Phone
503.443.1142 Fax
888.249.0013 Orders"

[PJmak]

2001 ML 55 motor with 97k for $1500

I have the e55 transmission in my car already and im thinking about this swap more then ever coz this is the best deal I found on this motor so far.


Id most likely need valve covers redone and plugs replaced, also rear main seal?? What else should be rebuilt on it before I swap it in?

Being an engine out of a ML, what parts need to be replaced on it to make it fit??? Also if anyone can kinda give me a price for all the parts id need, not including labor...

I know that the ml and the e55 versions make the most torque which is what im looking for but is that due to different exhaust\intake setups maybe?? Would some of that torque be lost once the engine is in my car?

[blackbenzz]

Originally Posted by PJmak

2001 ML 55 motor with 97k for $1500

Damn that's CHEAP! I will take it if you dont

[Saaboteur]

I imagine the different torque and power specs for the various 55 motors comes not just from variations in the intake and exhaust setups, but also ECU tuning and marketing. IMO, other than the physical differences that have been documented in this thread, I don't think it will matter which one of the motors from the other cars is installed into your C43.

[PJmak]

Originally Posted by Saaboteur

I imagine the different torque and power specs for the various 55 motors comes not just from variations in the intake and exhaust setups, but also ECU tuning and marketing. IMO, other than the physical differences that have been documented in this thread, I don't think it will matter which one of the motors from the other cars is installed into your C43.

Lets say I run the motor out of an E55. Could I run the E55 ECU and would that give me any extra power or maybe just retune my stock ECU?


Btw im gona go look at a motor out of a 2000 E55 tomorrow. They have two here locally

[popey24]

I replaced mine with a 5.4 W209 engine. In this case it is necessary to use the original C43 oil pan and oil pump (same for other new models like W203, W171). If you take a W208/210 engine, you can take it as it is.
I also needed to use my old wiring loom, because connectors were diffrent (probably W208/210 will be equal to C43). I had to take the throttle flap from C43 and to mount the knocking sensors you need to dismount the air intake bridge (need 2x gasket).
The new engine was also fitted with the secondary air mixing (pump + valves). Fortunately even the old engine didn't have this option, the connectors were present. But unfortunately connectors ere different, so I needed to find the correct connectors.
Another big job for me was to change the engine from right hand driven (starter on the left) to left hand driven (starter on the right) and the heating system connection at the cylinder head was closed because the engine was never used inside a car.
You can keep control unit for engine and transmission but they needed to be reprogrammed. It is difficult to find one who knows what he is doing in electronics.
You can also keep the rear differential gear. For me it is not necessary to drive 300 and more, I am more interested in acceleratioon...
With sport air filters and sport catalyst I measured 396,4 HP.