C36 twin turbo engine question ..
08-11-2012, 11:21 AM
#1
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C36 twin turbo engine question ..
Hello,
A local seller to me has this engine available for sale. He says it came out of a salvage C36. He mentioned the turbo kit was from Holland. Does anyone know who possibly made a twin turbo kit for the C36 way back, particularly if the manufctr. was in the Netherlands. Thanks in advance~!
A local seller to me has this engine available for sale. He says it came out of a salvage C36. He mentioned the turbo kit was from Holland. Does anyone know who possibly made a twin turbo kit for the C36 way back, particularly if the manufctr. was in the Netherlands. Thanks in advance~!
08-11-2012, 11:45 AM
#2
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88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Hello,
A local seller to me has this engine available for sale. He says it came out of a salvage C36. He mentioned the turbo kit was from Holland. Does anyone know who possibly made a twin turbo kit for the C36 way back, particularly if the manufctr. was in the Netherlands. Thanks in advance~!
A local seller to me has this engine available for sale. He says it came out of a salvage C36. He mentioned the turbo kit was from Holland. Does anyone know who possibly made a twin turbo kit for the C36 way back, particularly if the manufctr. was in the Netherlands. Thanks in advance~!
Original kits were built by Mosselamann when ***** Mosselmann owned the company.
They built kits for the M103-12V and M104-24V which the C36 is.
Boost was about 6-7 psi and enrichment controlled by a Mosselmann piggy back unit.
If the piggy back unit is not available with the motor then you'll need to resolve the enrichment control.
Company has changed hands years ago but considering once again building the "classic" kits if there is demand.
http://mosselmanturbo.com/bmw-merced...osselman-kits/
Ed A.
Last edited by RBYCC; 08-11-2012 at 11:48 AM.
08-11-2012, 07:43 PM
#3
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Original kits were built by Mosselamann when ***** Mosselmann owned the company.
They built kits for the M103-12V and M104-24V which the C36 is.
Boost was about 6-7 psi and enrichment controlled by a Mosselmann piggy back unit.
If the piggy back unit is not available with the motor then you'll need to resolve the enrichment control.
Company has changed hands years ago but considering once again building the "classic" kits if there is demand.
http://mosselmanturbo.com/bmw-merced...osselman-kits/
They built kits for the M103-12V and M104-24V which the C36 is.
Boost was about 6-7 psi and enrichment controlled by a Mosselmann piggy back unit.
If the piggy back unit is not available with the motor then you'll need to resolve the enrichment control.
Company has changed hands years ago but considering once again building the "classic" kits if there is demand.
http://mosselmanturbo.com/bmw-merced...osselman-kits/
Because my seller knows nothing about the history of the salvage vehicle in that the motor comes w/o wiring or ECU .. we don't know what mods the engine had such as piston and rods for turbo conversion. Or whether it was just a straight bolt on of turbos and manifold.
The only thing we know is that the conversion cost about USD 10,000 originally, if that is an indication of the "stage" of modification.
I may stay away from this motor if latter was the case. Thanks in advance!
08-11-2012, 09:45 PM
#7
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No one knows ATM. I guess I will be the first to verify.
The motor comes with what you see plus the L/down pipes which hooks up to the standard AMG at the resonator/catalyst.
It does not have wiring harness or ECU, so mine will have to do.
The original piggy back unit is MIA. I will likely have to go with a Greddy Gold unit or similar then get a custom map written. At that point, we will run it on the dyno to find out.
The motor comes with what you see plus the L/down pipes which hooks up to the standard AMG at the resonator/catalyst.
It does not have wiring harness or ECU, so mine will have to do.
The original piggy back unit is MIA. I will likely have to go with a Greddy Gold unit or similar then get a custom map written. At that point, we will run it on the dyno to find out.
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08-11-2012, 09:47 PM
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88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Hi, thanks for the link. I look at the page and surfed around the site and only saw turbos, intercooler, and piping. Do you know if this manufacturer sold kits with forged pistons and rods for turbo conversion ?
Because my seller knows nothing about the history of the salvage vehicle in that the motor comes w/o wiring or ECU .. we don't know what mods the engine had such as piston and rods for turbo conversion. Or whether it was just a straight bolt on of turbos and manifold.
The only thing we know is that the conversion cost about USD 10,000 originally, if that is an indication of the "stage" of modification.
I may stay away from this motor if latter was the case. Thanks in advance!
Because my seller knows nothing about the history of the salvage vehicle in that the motor comes w/o wiring or ECU .. we don't know what mods the engine had such as piston and rods for turbo conversion. Or whether it was just a straight bolt on of turbos and manifold.
The only thing we know is that the conversion cost about USD 10,000 originally, if that is an indication of the "stage" of modification.
I may stay away from this motor if latter was the case. Thanks in advance!
There were two main manufacturers of twin turbo kits for the M103/M104 in the late eighties-early nineties..Mosselmann which used a piggy back fuel enrichment control and TurboTechnics which used a stand alone control firing additional injectors.
$10K is about correct and it was a straight bolt-on.
The TurboTechnics kit was commissioned by Hughes of Beaconsfield, a main U.K. Merc dealer, that installed the kits on new delivery 124's and gave a one year warranty. It was the dealers way to compete with AMG.
Hughes probably did about fifty installations with most in the U.K. achieving 150K miles without any problems.
Both kits used the stock internals but recommended lowering compression on the 10+:1 engines.
At .5bar boost the stock internals easily handle the power increase of the twin turbos.
I purchased one of the remaining new old stock TurboTechnics kits from Hughes in 2007.
Kit was installed by Willow Automotive in Chicago.
The owner of Willow was the main USA installer for Mosselmann in the 80's-90's.
Running .5bar boost will double the stock power at the rear wheels and the engine will be very reliable providing you can maintain about 11.5AFR under boost.
Lean mixture is the primary cause of turbo engines coming apart quickly due to detonation.
08-11-2012, 10:18 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
There were two main manufacturers of twin turbo kits for the M103/M104 in the late eighties-early nineties..Mosselmann which used a piggy back fuel enrichment control and TurboTechnics which used a stand alone control firing additional injectors.
$10K is about correct and it was a straight bolt-on.
The TurboTechnics kit was commissioned by Hughes of Beaconsfield, a main U.K. Merc dealer, that installed the kits on new delivery 124's and gave a one year warranty. It was the dealers way to compete with AMG.
Hughes probably did about fifty installations with most in the U.K. achieving 150K miles without any problems.
Both kits used the stock internals but recommended lowering compression on the 10+:1 engines.
At .5bar boost the stock internals easily handle the power increase of the twin turbos.
I purchased one of the remaining new old stock TurboTechnics kits from Hughes in 2007.
Kit was installed by Willow Automotive in Chicago.
The owner of Willow was the main USA installer for Mosselmann in the 80's-90's.
Running .5bar boost will double the stock power at the rear wheels and the engine will be very reliable providing you can maintain about 11.5AFR under boost.
Lean mixture is the primary cause of turbo engines coming apart quickly due to detonation.
$10K is about correct and it was a straight bolt-on.
The TurboTechnics kit was commissioned by Hughes of Beaconsfield, a main U.K. Merc dealer, that installed the kits on new delivery 124's and gave a one year warranty. It was the dealers way to compete with AMG.
Hughes probably did about fifty installations with most in the U.K. achieving 150K miles without any problems.
Both kits used the stock internals but recommended lowering compression on the 10+:1 engines.
At .5bar boost the stock internals easily handle the power increase of the twin turbos.
I purchased one of the remaining new old stock TurboTechnics kits from Hughes in 2007.
Kit was installed by Willow Automotive in Chicago.
The owner of Willow was the main USA installer for Mosselmann in the 80's-90's.
Running .5bar boost will double the stock power at the rear wheels and the engine will be very reliable providing you can maintain about 11.5AFR under boost.
Lean mixture is the primary cause of turbo engines coming apart quickly due to detonation.
The unit came from a salvage RHD C36 in Japan. So it wouldn't surprise me if it were installed in the UK. I don't know what happened to the piggy back unit for it would be not that useful to a non-turbo car.
It looks like the turbos have internal waste gate, so the boost pressure should be set by the springs used, correct ? I wouldn't up the boost in any event, on account that even it there is minimal HP gain from low boost, this engine has to push close to 400HP, making it more powerful than C43 or C55. A man has to be satisfy with that.
I wonder though - does the AMG front bumper allow enough space for a nice front mounted intercooler ? Or, would I have to go with an under-the-hood cooling unit ? Possibly air-water unit ?
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
08-12-2012, 04:02 AM
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Carlsson CM60 EX:C36AMG'96
Thanks, buddy~! That's valuable info. given the non-existing history of this old unit.
The unit came from a salvage RHD C36 in Japan. So it wouldn't surprise me if it were installed in the UK. I don't know what happened to the piggy back unit for it would be not that useful to a non-turbo car.
It looks like the turbos have internal waste gate, so the boost pressure should be set by the springs used, correct ? I wouldn't up the boost in any event, on account that even it there is minimal HP gain from low boost, this engine has to push close to 400HP, making it more powerful than C43 or C55. A man has to be satisfy with that.
I wonder though - does the AMG front bumper allow enough space for a nice front mounted intercooler ? Or, would I have to go with an under-the-hood cooling unit ? Possibly air-water unit ?
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
The unit came from a salvage RHD C36 in Japan. So it wouldn't surprise me if it were installed in the UK. I don't know what happened to the piggy back unit for it would be not that useful to a non-turbo car.
It looks like the turbos have internal waste gate, so the boost pressure should be set by the springs used, correct ? I wouldn't up the boost in any event, on account that even it there is minimal HP gain from low boost, this engine has to push close to 400HP, making it more powerful than C43 or C55. A man has to be satisfy with that.
I wonder though - does the AMG front bumper allow enough space for a nice front mounted intercooler ? Or, would I have to go with an under-the-hood cooling unit ? Possibly air-water unit ?
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
the engine we are looking at here should be atleast 350/400hp I assume it's the mosselman kit. nice found a beast to drive
08-12-2012, 06:34 AM
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88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Thanks, buddy~! That's valuable info. given the non-existing history of this old unit.
The unit came from a salvage RHD C36 in Japan. So it wouldn't surprise me if it were installed in the UK. I don't know what happened to the piggy back unit for it would be not that useful to a non-turbo car.
The unit came from a salvage RHD C36 in Japan. So it wouldn't surprise me if it were installed in the UK. I don't know what happened to the piggy back unit for it would be not that useful to a non-turbo car.
It looks like the turbos have internal waste gate, so the boost pressure should be set by the springs used, correct ? I wouldn't up the boost in any event, on account that even it there is minimal HP gain from low boost, this engine has to push close to 400HP, making it more powerful than C43 or C55. A man has to be satisfy with that.
At 7PSI boost you'll more the match the numbers of a C55 and probably run faster.
My M103-12V TT at 7psi will run low five second 0-60's with not the best of traction !!
I wonder though - does the AMG front bumper allow enough space for a nice front mounted intercooler ? Or, would I have to go with an under-the-hood cooling unit ? Possibly air-water unit ?
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Also consider an inexpensive water/methanol injection which will preclude any detonation under boost and make more power due to a much colder discharge air temp.
Pix of a slightly modified Mosselman install, a stock install, my Turbotechnics install...
08-13-2012, 01:58 AM
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He lives in NY.
08-13-2012, 08:47 AM
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There is not alot of meat between cylinders. Our other friend with a TT36 is having that same exact problem. Ideally if they were able to find the MB turbo diesel straight six block that would be perfect but its hard to find.
Both motors now have rods and pistons the one we are talking about in the article now has one huge monster turbo,3.5L built bottom end,the original standalone,front mount intercooler,custom built exh mani,custom exh,black-series front calipers(6piston I believe but huge),all in a silver body C36 now because he totaled the original and swapped everything out. The car is built 100x better than the original turbo setup. Believe it puts out over 550 plus whp@ 15+psi. Kind of reminds me of a supra the way it sounds.
The car is a beast. If he allows I will take pics of the engine bay.
V12godspeed may have pics of the motors of both C36's pm him. The owner of the Turbo C36 is the same guy who dropped the TTV12 in his W211E55 article right here about v12 godspeed car click below on link:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/373559-ev12.html
This V12 E55 is a complete beast we were all together last week.
He also put the 5.5L in my car and another members C43.
In another member here he put an SLK32 motor in his W203 C320.
Last edited by ProjectC55; 08-13-2012 at 09:00 AM.
08-13-2012, 08:52 AM
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Carlsson CM60 EX:C36AMG'96
After many blown head gaskets he is now using a stroked 3.2 engine(using 3.6L crank) which now is a 3.5 because the cylinder walls on the 3.6 are too close to each other when you look at the top of the block. If he went for like say 15 psi boost he would always blow head gaskets.
There is not alot of meat between cylinders. Our other friend with a TT36 is having that same exact problem. Ideally if they were able to find the MB turbo diesel straight six block that would be perfect but its hard to find.
Both motors now have rods and pistons the one we are talking about in the article now has one huge monster turbo,3.5L built bottom end,the original standalone,front mount intercooler,custom built exh mani,custom exh,black-series front calipers(6piston I believe but huge),all in a silver body C36 now because he totaled the original and swapped everything out. The car is built 100x better than the original turbo setup. Believe it puts out over 550 plus whp@ 15+psi. Kind of reminds me of a supra the way it sounds.
The car is a beast. If he allows I will take pics of the engine bay.
There is not alot of meat between cylinders. Our other friend with a TT36 is having that same exact problem. Ideally if they were able to find the MB turbo diesel straight six block that would be perfect but its hard to find.
Both motors now have rods and pistons the one we are talking about in the article now has one huge monster turbo,3.5L built bottom end,the original standalone,front mount intercooler,custom built exh mani,custom exh,black-series front calipers(6piston I believe but huge),all in a silver body C36 now because he totaled the original and swapped everything out. The car is built 100x better than the original turbo setup. Believe it puts out over 550 plus whp@ 15+psi. Kind of reminds me of a supra the way it sounds.
The car is a beast. If he allows I will take pics of the engine bay.
08-13-2012, 11:43 AM
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Also, to run high boost pressure, I'd imagine it would be wise to replace the stock C36 pistons with a compression ratio lowering forged set (from CP or one of the better known brands, or custom made ?) and stronger head bolts. I would think in order to run 15 pounds of boost, one best lower the c/r to something like 8.5:1 or lower, larger injectors, better fuel pump, install some very large frontal air/air intercooler, or air/water intercooler, plus custom mapping the ECU's piggy back unit.
08-13-2012, 11:15 PM
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Also, to run high boost pressure, I'd imagine it would be wise to replace the stock C36 pistons with a compression ratio lowering forged set (from CP or one of the better known brands, or custom made ?) and stronger head bolts. I would think in order to run 15 pounds of boost, one best lower the c/r to something like 8.5:1 or lower, larger injectors, better fuel pump, install some very large frontal air/air intercooler, or air/water intercooler, plus custom mapping the ECU's piggy back unit.
