CigarXO

MBW members (C36 specific)-

Finished my head gasket replacement and the brake wear signal light is coming on... Ugh!

I'd like advice on specific C36 issues and any good threads for instructions - I've not done brakes. I have the Chilton manual and Peligan.com tech paper.

Concerns include:
- AMG mod - should I be using S-series parts, references?
- Do front and rear require signals?
- disc/rotor minimum thickness so maybe I can get by with just pads for now?
- can fluid replacement be done w/o MB Star pressure equip? Or should I let service dept. do that?
- daily driver. I don't need racing gear. Any brands recommended?

thx
CigarXO

DRBC43AMG

I can give some light, but not c36 specific, but beware brakes are a critical part of a vehicle, so if you don't know, I'd recommend don't touch!

- AMG mod - should I be using S-series parts, references?
What does "s-series parts mean

- Do front and rear require signals?
Signals meaning?

- disc/rotor minimum thickness so maybe I can get by with just pads for now?
It depends... You need to measure the thickness of the rotors. Normally the minimum thickness is stamped on the rotor somewhere, probably near the hub. If the rotors have an important lip on the outside of the rotor, you can say they are shot and need changing.

- can fluid replacement be done w/o MB Star pressure equip? Or should I let service dept. do that?
Yes, no problem, but get a pressure bleeder if you are alone. They are relatively cheap and a nice piece of kit to have in your tool box.

- daily driver. I don't need racing gear. Any brands recommended?
You can use the OEM pads. They are largely sufficient if you are not planning on tracking the vehicle and probably reasonably priced too.

99CEEFOURTHREE

To save some money and not sacrifice quality,find yourself a good Independant mechanic who specializes in german cars.If your up to doing this maintenance yourself, go with OE/Bosh parts as you cant go wrong.Just my past experience/.2 cents.

CigarXO

Thanks for your input. Let me offer more clarification.

DRBC43AMG -
by "S-series", I mean "S-class". My understanding is the brakes on the '95 C36 AMG were plucked from the SL600. It would be easy to order parts incorrectly on some online sources which don't differentiate correctly origianal W202 C-class parts from the AMG mods.

This error could also carry over to how the Brake Pad Wear warning system is set-up. Not having pulled the wheels to look yet, I've seen multiple and conflicting part recommendations which do not clarify whether the "signaling" unit - I should have said "brake wear sensors" - are on all four feet, one-each front/rear, front only? I see brake pads with "sensor holes" and need to get my order correct.

I'll look for the "stamped" min. thickness on rotor, just read about that. I was trying to order parts before lifting car. Again, an easy source of confusion if research sources are not clear about which brake disc is being used; C-class or SL.

I'll look into buying a pressure bleeder. Not having done brakes, I could use a caliper press and other tools also for my garage.

99C43 -
Thanks. I have a good independent, but feel I can do most of the brake job as soon as I verify the correctness of my sources for the C36; especially if this becomes a simple pad/sensor replacement only. The pressure flush was something I thought might need to be a shop job but the comment above leads me to investigate a pressure bleeder. I ran by and got a quote from the dealer ($1750). I looked back at my independent's work in '08 for front only ($358). I think I can do them for less...

Thanks,
CigarXO


Still looking for C36 specific specs and maybe a thread or video - anyone?

cm60k

Do you looking for spec. for C36 brakes, Rotors/pads/calipers..??

ZAYED,,

CigarXO

cm60k,
After considerable time - which I was trying to avoid - on retail/forum sites, I think I have most of my answers.
1. Looks like 1995 C36 was a unique front rotor and therefore no aftermarket alternatives to directional rotors 202-421-01-12 and 202-421-02-12.
2. I see the 95 had solid rear rotors and the 96-97 have drilled rotors. I think they are interchangeable and therefore have a few options here. Also, some aftermarket manufacturers.
3. Not yet confirmed brake wear sensor set-up, but I'll pull my wheels and look.

I was hoping to find a thread with hints and PIA avoidance advice; ie, special tools, replacement bolts/pins required, etc.

Thanks!

cm60k

*95 uses the same size of front Rotors & pads with 93-95 600SL brakes, which is directional Rotors

320x30, #: "129 421 17 12 & 18 12", then 96-97 MB replace them to non-directional Rotors 316x28, #: "210 421 17 12",,

*there are "2" versions of C36 rear Rotors, depend of spec.,

one with 290x10 solid #: "210 423 06 12", and the other comes with 278x24 vented #: "124 423 08 12",

*as i know; pads needs "4" sensors in front & "4" sensors in rears,,

*calipers & pads are the same, just MB replace all AMG H WA #s to ordinary A #s in 11/95, during to the new contract with ATE & LEMFÖRDER..

ZAYED,,

CigarXO

cm60k -
Now that's a GREAT reply. The kind of facts one needs to get to work!

Edit: Later verified wear sensor requirements on '95 C36 AMG to be:
2 ea Front (total of 4)
only 1 on Left Rear, none on Right Rear

Thanks.
CigarXO

cm60k

Anytime bro.,

i forget to tell, C36 doesn't has drilled Rotors, it's only solid & vented,,

if you want to go with drilled you can put aftermarket drilled set, or put SL500/600 silver arrow rear brakes..

ZAYED,,

Super B

Zayed is like brake yoda

cm60k

He's even more beauty..

ZAYED,,

CigarXO

ZAYED,
Opening the search to include 93-95 SL600 options led to some confusion today as the retailers have misinformation (fronts which are not directional) and multiple choices.

Am I correct to understand I could use most SL600 options in those years. I'm leaning toward front 320x30 and rear 278x24 in the StopTech aftermarket line of slotted rotors.
There are no/so few C36 options.

Any other recommendations?

CigarXO

cm60k

Mostly; some AMG models NOT that clear info., especially with C36/E50/600SL, that's why some Retailers gives randomly info. in there sites,,

if you don't care about directional Rotors, you can simply go with 316x28 front & 278x24 rear, which i prefered..

ZAYED,,

DRBC43AMG

I found some DIY info for brakes on Pelican Parts. Even if not directly c36 related, the principle is the same, specially on MB vehicles:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...paign=20140924

Some more from a UK MB forum which is w202 rear brake related:
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/howto...isks-w202.html

And some more DIY subjects from another UK MB forum
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=37

Have you checked out our forum DIY video thread?
https://mbworld.org/forums/c36-amg-c...deos-w202.html

PelicanParts.com

Unfortunately, we don't offer a C36-specific brake tech article but swapping pads is a pretty straightforward job. If not utilizing a lift, the important part is using a good set of jack stands and not using just the floor jack to support the car.

We offer brake pads for your C36 here.

Mark/Pelican Parts

Twichel04

For what it's worth, I am VERY pleased with my 2006 CL600 calipers. Same calipers that came on the C32.

CigarXO

UPDATE: Since I last wrote, I've been trying to fix a couple of old outboard motors and completed a 3 year old Jeep axle swap project on my 1998 ZJ 5.9er.

This weekend I returned to my '95 C36 AMG brake and rotor job. After research and your advice I purchased the following:

StopTech slotted rotors from Sparktec Motorsports
STO-126.35029SL 1 76.64
STO-126.35028SR 1 76.64
STO-126.35026SL 1 61.39
STO-126.35026SR 1 61.39
Subtotal 276.06

Brake pads via Amazon LLC:
Akebono EUR495 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic Brake Pad Set $33.80
Akebono EUR561 EURO Ultra-Premium Ceramic Brake Pad Set $52.99

Wear Sensors via Amazon provider: Import Parts Depot
Mercedes-Benz Brake Pad Wear Sensor Front / Rear Premium Quality 1401217 (4pcs) Condition: New $5.70

I just finished the install which I made more difficult by painting my calibers. (but if not now, when?)

Installation Issue: fitment
After installation, my rotor and pads are snug tight - no rotation. I did compress caliper pistons to the limit where pads are resting on metal surface of caliper not limited by the piston. The rotor thickness measures within .02mm of spec. So, the Akebono pads must be too thick? Anyone have this difficulty or possibly Akebono designed for the C-series or '96+ C36? Should I expect this to loosen up after I bleed my brakes and restore the system to operation? I performed a similar refurb/install on the Jeep and didn't have this issue. This sucks when you put in the research and a job should take 2-3 hours turns into your car being stuck on jackstands.

Bleeding Brakes
My OEM vacuum couldn't hold a seal, so tomorrow I'll be using a pressurized bleeder at my Brother-in-Law's shop. Is there anything unique to the C36, ABS or AMG configuration I should be aware of?

Thanks in Advance!

CigarXO

Fallbangskid

You might want to consider adding some StopTech or Goodrich SS Braided Brake Lines.... I always do.

CigarXO

Thanks Fallbangskid for sharing but I'm limiting this project now to just what is needed. I just fought with the 4" of front brake line provided while trying to attach the calibers - PIA! They are in good shape.

Besides, I've learned via my Jeep ZJ 5.9r build that replacing stuff that isn't broken usually leads to more problems. I did put SS extended brake lines on the Jeep as part of an axle swap, re-gear project and found my joining nuts seized or stripped. Led to having to cut/ferrule/replace/fix leaks (x2). No fun.

Staying on topic:
I see you have Akebono pads - did you have fitment issues?

CigarXO

Follow-up Update: for those considering '95 C36 AMG brake job

As much as I love the STOPTECH front rotors, I could not make them fit. The offset is incorrect. The '95 C36 design of rotors and calibers is a one-time combo as far as I can tell across the MB and AMG model line-up. For that reason, I cannot find a suitable aftermarket "directional" rotor. I tried to find a substitute to the OE rotors to save some money & improve performance. Not happening. Even with two spacer options tried, I cannot get the right offset and/or wheel balance. When I did achieve the offset, the spacers cause highspeed vibrations - even hub centric & nut specific spacers - led to unsafe conditions. Chalk it up to expensive lesson learned. Stay with OE front rotors...

Super B

how big of a spacer behind the rotor are you talking about. Anyway to make up the offset correction by machining down the caliper mounting points to move the caliper in?

CigarXO

SuperB et al,

My best estimation and memory, the fitment was going to need 3-4mm shift of the rotor outward or the caliper inboard. I first investigated having the rotors machined, but no shop would touch them - AND - 3-4mm is almost the same wear which would make the rotors below min thickness and removed from just one side.

As you suggest, I considered machining down the caliper flanges which were making contact (pic 2 & 3), the caliper at the mounting point (pic 4) or the mounting point on the toe horn (pic 5). They all present difficult access and detailed molding to work around. A dremel, grinder or professional required. The dremel wouldn't reach. The grinder could do damage and not reach. These two options would probably result in sloppy work and further misfitment. The professional shop would set me back possibly a nother couple hundred bucks - the price of my original mistake in judgement - and I'd be tinkering with pretty finely engineered components on the lifesaving braking system. If it didn't work, getting orginal parts would be much more costly - or life threatening.

I'm attaching pictures because I'm not fully against the idea. Maybe you or someone else has better approach - or I'm being too cautious. I don't possess the percision tools and I again emphasize that of the 2-3 shops I approached - they wouldn't touch it.



Pic1: the StopTech rotor and painted caliper looked sweet!





Pic2: Rotor makes contact with little guiding flange lip on inside of caliper. Would be really tough to get in there to machine.





Pic3: same as #2 on lower caliper area.





Pic4: Blue identifies caliper mounts. Easiest point to machine, but could ruin axle toe and alignment? Also notice the rotor was rubbing dust plate





Pic5: illustrates caliper mounted and flange design making caliper tough to machine.

Super B

I agree with you on all accounts. Just the wrong offset on the rotor hat. The easiest fix is different rotors pure and simple. Plus that is what you sound the most comfortable with. I'm stubborn enough to take an air cut off wheel, Dremel, file and a measuring caliper and a straight edge take down the material on the spindle side you pointed out with the blue arrows. Checking the thickness with the caliper and the trueness of the surfaces in respect to each other with the straight edge. You'd still have to clearance the dust cover..

But you are VERY correct in being concerned about how flat and true you could machine the surfaces. Plus who has the time for all that? Quick fix new rotors..

x463

@cm60k Zayed -

I have a USA 12/94 build date C36. I believe this means I should have vented rotors - at least on the front.
Front Part #s planning to order:
1294211712 - DOES NOT FIT - SITS TOO FAR INBOARD HITTING DUSTSHIELD. CALIPER WILL NOT FIT.
1294211812 - DOES NOT FIT - SITS TOO FAR INBOARD HITTING DUSTSHIELD. CALIPER WILL NOT FIT.

I'm not sure on the rear - I'm thinking I need the 278mm vented w/ part number 1244230812 but could be wrong. I can't access the car for a couple days and want to get these ordered. Is there a way to know from the country, build date, or datasheet to verify I need the 278mm vented vs. the 290mm solid? ORDERED 124423081264 AND IT FITS.

Planning on MB or Pagid pads. I hate ceramics or "performance" pads on a road car. Do you have those part #s handy to x-ref?
Looking for SS braided brake lines also - know of a good kit? I've used Paragon in the past but with all the 1995 goofiness and parts sites listing various fitment compatibility that varies to other models it's going to be a guessing game as well unless I remove and measure 1st. CUSTOME ORDER FROM PARAGON PRODUCTS. THEY WILL ADD TO THEIR CATALOG.

Thanks for the great info.

x463

The 129 600SL brakes do NOT fit my car. They sit too far inboard - hitting the dust shield and caliper won't fit.

Just ordered the 2104211712 option which will sit 4 mm further outboard from the hub.

The ATE part # for this disk is 426126 but can't find it in the USA.

The Zimmerman equivalent to the ATE part is 400143620. I just ordered - fingers crossed they fit. (there is also a drilled version offered by Zimmerman 400143652).

Brembo and Feroda in theory have an equivalent part but couldn't find either in the USA.

Hoping this fits!

600SL front disk - does NOT fit.