teknostar

Is anyone else disappointed that AMG have put a dual clutch into the GT, and are not releasing the new C63 with the same gearbox?

I have put down an expression of interest deposit, and will be ordering a blue estate, silver wheels, sports exhaust and pano roof.

Concerned about driving an auto, after 20 years of driving manual cars.

Tjdehya

I don't see how we can be disappointed when we don't know how well the updated MCT performs.
Now if the reviews all say that the MCT still sux, then we can be somewhat disappointed.

MJ50

i think all non-AMGs should get MCT and all AMGs get DCT...

teknostar

I agree!

kuba.95

Well the dual clutch sucks in my CLA 45, so depending on how good the MCT is I might prefer it. Although I hate how the gear shifter isn't located at the center console, and instead it's steering wheel mounted in the C63

bmoney12

I don't know...I'd still take the jerky DCT in the 45 that was programmed by a 16 year old who doesn't know how to drive a manual over the MCT in my previous C63. I'm sure they've made updates to improve but it'll never feel like a true DCT which is a negative in my book. I agree with you on the shifter. Just seems wrong to me.

jarjoug

oo

Ingenieur

Shifting an mct is exactly the same as a dct
Neither has a 3rd pedal and both use electonics/seitches, not manual mechanical effort
So 'feel' is moot

There are advantages to each
I prefer a torque convertor over a wet pack clutch
I drove manuals for over 30 years, this is my first auto and I'm not disappointed

natman316

Disappointing but mb dct also sucks compared to competition so idk how much of an improvement it will be.

That said I did just pick up a w205 c300 and the 7g is much improved over the previous 7g. (But bmw zf 8 speed is still better)

AV1

Maybe MB/AMG's way to justify the cost difference between those 2 vehicle models and purposely make the GT superior, although I would have no idea what the cost difference actually is between those transmissions also AFAIK the DCT in the GT has been specifically designed and made as a rear mounted transaxle set up, not sure if it can be utilised in the C63's mechanical driveline layout

AV1

So far on the AMG GT review thread, it's proving to be outstanding

natman316

I read one article and it said it was one of the most responsive transmissions they have driven. Had to recheck if they were talking about an AMG lol. I am excited!

AV1

Same here !!!


It's a new twin clutch ground up unit, so looking forward to see if the new 205 series C63 trans has significantly improved - if not hopefully the GT's trans somehow finds its way into the C63's sometime down the track.

Ingenieur

The gt dct is not made by AMG or MB
It is an off the shelf getrag
I think this one http://www.getrag.com/media/products...50/7DCL750.pdf
On the link below go down the page and you can see what trannies are oem
For MB only the SLS is listed (not updated for the gt yet)
It uses the one linked above
As does every Ferrari model
http://www.getrag.com/en/products/produkt_detail.html
If you put in BMW you will see they make almost every models tranny
M5, M3/4 down to econo 1 series
The M5 and M3/4 use the same tranny
Look at the torque rating
Headroom on the M3/4 on the edge for the M5


MB make the 7g in house
It is rare for a mfg to make a tranny
Huge capital costs and usually short life cycle to recapture those costs
Not to mention technical expertise
It's been around 10 tears or so correct?
That is why they use it in many models....$$$$$

AV1

Yes well aware of most of that but didn't realise it was an off the shelf unit I thought it would've been made to AMG specifications, Nissan also adopted a getrag unit for their R35 GTR.

There was a thread a while back where a couple of us stated we wished MB would just give up on their in house transmissions and use the excellent ZF units like everybody else does including BMW in most of their model line up.

However that seems unlikely as they've now made and introduced the new 9G Tronic.

Hopefully the AMG model line up will eventually get proper transmissions like the new GT, but also we'll have to wait and see how good the updated MCT is before being disappointed it may surprise us yet

-=Hot|Ice=-

Mercedes highlighted the improved MCT Transmission, so I'm hoping it's amazing.

Ingenieur

The 7g ranks as one of the best made
Continuous improvement
Some of the zf units aren't as good imo
The 7g is a perfect match for high torque v8's

People dismiss torque convertors but there is a lot to be said for them in this type of application

teknostar

What does Continuous Improvement mean?

apart from the obvious?

teknostar

What is wrong with AMG putting the latest Getrag 7MT into the new C63?

Tjdehya

The fact that only 3 people in the USA will buy it.

teknostar

Yep, like the 3 people who have bought a manual F80 M3/M4 in the USA...

AV1

Same story here in Australia.


Up until the time MB offered a manual transmission option on their car range here, the sales figures showed less than 5% of sales for MT vs over 95% for auto, therefore they discontinued to offer MT at all which makes total sense from a company point of view

Ingenieur

UThe obvious
It is the 5th gen of at's the MB has designed and built in house
That is a huge knowledge base
It's been in production for over 10 years
The thing is tried and tested, all bugs worked out
Materials have been improved; better gears, clutches, etc
It is the first 7 speed for a mass produced car
The first with a magensiim case
The software continuously refined
The costs have been amortized so it makes the car less expensive than if they out sourced it
imho the mct or wet pack clutch was a mistake, only done for marketing reasons, ie, compete with dct for the uneducated consumer

It is a good tranny and perfect for a large v8 application
It will be around for while perhaps with some gears added

A tc can do things a wet or dry clutch can't
Like torque multiplication
Power in = power out minus minor losses, essentially the same
Power in = power out = power
Power = T x rpm or T = 1/rpm x power
T in = 1/rpm in x power in = 1/rpm in x power
T out = 1/rpm out x power out = 1/rpm out x power

Rpm out < rpm in due to slip use 5% for example
Or rpm out = 0.95 x rpm in
T out = 1/0.95 rpm in x power
Taking a ratio in T out / T in
= 1/0.95 rpm in x power / 1/rpm in x power
T out = 1/0.95 x T in = 1.053 x T in
Voila! Torque multiplication

Taking advantage of this using software the car can be given a 'surge' of torque prior to and right after a gear change to maintain momemtum and make it seem smooth/seamless

-=Hot|Ice=-

It also plays nice with mods.

Ingenieur

Yepper
And provides a nice driveline buffer/filter for nvh