C450 AMG
03-02-2015, 09:48 PM
#226
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Not picking sides - actually I already did by ordering the C63 S Edition 1.... Anyhow, one more highlight from the review:
"Perhaps the biggest surprise is the C450 AMG Sport, which charms the lederhosen off everyone who drives it, despite bringing less power and suspension trickery to the party. Rather than coming off as a wannabe AMG, the sedan proves a fresh, throaty-voiced – and comparably affordable – take on the AMG formula. A 362hp sport sedan is more than adequate for most drivers, capable as it is of a 4.9-second romp to 62mph. And the C450’s standard 4Matic all-wheel drive makes it more versatile, and likely more desirable, than the rear-drive AMGs for customers in wintry climes."
"Perhaps the biggest surprise is the C450 AMG Sport, which charms the lederhosen off everyone who drives it, despite bringing less power and suspension trickery to the party. Rather than coming off as a wannabe AMG, the sedan proves a fresh, throaty-voiced – and comparably affordable – take on the AMG formula. A 362hp sport sedan is more than adequate for most drivers, capable as it is of a 4.9-second romp to 62mph. And the C450’s standard 4Matic all-wheel drive makes it more versatile, and likely more desirable, than the rear-drive AMGs for customers in wintry climes."
03-02-2015, 09:51 PM
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I would buy the c450 over the s4 or 335i m sport ... Anyday
03-02-2015, 10:21 PM
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03-02-2015, 10:44 PM
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While the C450 is acceptable to most people, C450 is NOT a TRUE AMG. It does NOT fall into the concept of realm and concept of "One man, One Engine."
This has been talked a lot in the AMG Private Lounge (PL) forum. There, they are NOT accepting the C450 owners in that forum. People of authority at the AMG PL forum have stated that "A tuned C450 by AMG, is NOT an AMG."
This car C450 would have been okay had it not had the tags of AMG anywhere on its body panel. The CORPORATE PIGS at Mercedes Benz became greedy and SOLD the SOUL and PRESTIGIOUS accomplishments of AMG.
We are all in for Mercedes Benz to make money, but applying this AMG tag beginning with the C450 and the GLE450 is just not right. It the objective is to have representation of AMG in all power bands, the CLA45 and the GLA45 would certainly accomodate those younger buyers.
In other words, mother Mercedes Benz should "Raise The Bar, and Not Lower their Standards." They are copy cats of Audi and BMW. They should follow suit how Porsche have maintained their status as a performance and endurance car manufacturer, and NOT the "Run of the Mill" car manufacturer that Audi and BMW actually is.
Drive safe,
MBenzC32
This has been talked a lot in the AMG Private Lounge (PL) forum. There, they are NOT accepting the C450 owners in that forum. People of authority at the AMG PL forum have stated that "A tuned C450 by AMG, is NOT an AMG."
This car C450 would have been okay had it not had the tags of AMG anywhere on its body panel. The CORPORATE PIGS at Mercedes Benz became greedy and SOLD the SOUL and PRESTIGIOUS accomplishments of AMG.
We are all in for Mercedes Benz to make money, but applying this AMG tag beginning with the C450 and the GLE450 is just not right. It the objective is to have representation of AMG in all power bands, the CLA45 and the GLA45 would certainly accomodate those younger buyers.
In other words, mother Mercedes Benz should "Raise The Bar, and Not Lower their Standards." They are copy cats of Audi and BMW. They should follow suit how Porsche have maintained their status as a performance and endurance car manufacturer, and NOT the "Run of the Mill" car manufacturer that Audi and BMW actually is.
Drive safe,
MBenzC32
03-02-2015, 11:31 PM
#231
MBWorld Fanatic!
The divide here seems to be mostly between AMG owners who don't appreciate the devaluation of the AMG brand, and those who think it's just fine or it's a true AMG. Here's a view from the middle. I can afford an AMG but don't really care. The hand built engine and all that just does not do anything for me. I totally get it for those who are into that, but I'm just not. Yet I would not buy a 450 because of the badges. It's embarrassing. I picture the times people ask me about my AMG and I have to look down and kick my toe in the dirt and say "well, not really." It's kind of like a Chrysler called a "Roy's Royce." Seems like a good car, but the badge alone would be a deal killer.
03-02-2015, 11:33 PM
#232
"The development engineers also take advantage of numerous hardware and software solutions of he C63"
http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA...ATIC-FINAL.pdf
03-02-2015, 11:33 PM
#233
MBWorld Fanatic!
While the C450 is acceptable to most people, C450 is NOT a TRUE AMG. It does NOT fall into the concept of realm and concept of "One man, One Engine."
This has been talked a lot in the AMG Private Lounge (PL) forum. There, they are NOT accepting the C450 owners in that forum. People of authority at the AMG PL forum have stated that "A tuned C450 by AMG, is NOT an AMG."
This car C450 would have been okay had it not had the tags of AMG anywhere on its body panel. The CORPORATE PIGS at Mercedes Benz became greedy and SOLD the SOUL and PRESTIGIOUS accomplishments of AMG.
We are all in for Mercedes Benz to make money, but applying this AMG tag beginning with the C450 and the GLE450 is just not right. It the objective is to have representation of AMG in all power bands, the CLA45 and the GLA45 would certainly accomodate those younger buyers.
In other words, mother Mercedes Benz should "Raise The Bar, and Not Lower their Standards." They are copy cats of Audi and BMW. They should follow suit how Porsche have maintained their status as a performance and endurance car manufacturer, and NOT the "Run of the Mill" car manufacturer that Audi and BMW actually is.
Drive safe,
MBenzC32
This has been talked a lot in the AMG Private Lounge (PL) forum. There, they are NOT accepting the C450 owners in that forum. People of authority at the AMG PL forum have stated that "A tuned C450 by AMG, is NOT an AMG."
This car C450 would have been okay had it not had the tags of AMG anywhere on its body panel. The CORPORATE PIGS at Mercedes Benz became greedy and SOLD the SOUL and PRESTIGIOUS accomplishments of AMG.
We are all in for Mercedes Benz to make money, but applying this AMG tag beginning with the C450 and the GLE450 is just not right. It the objective is to have representation of AMG in all power bands, the CLA45 and the GLA45 would certainly accomodate those younger buyers.
In other words, mother Mercedes Benz should "Raise The Bar, and Not Lower their Standards." They are copy cats of Audi and BMW. They should follow suit how Porsche have maintained their status as a performance and endurance car manufacturer, and NOT the "Run of the Mill" car manufacturer that Audi and BMW actually is.
Drive safe,
MBenzC32
Also, if MB/AMG execute the C450 well (reviews have heaped praise on it), it can knock off rival platforms like the F30 M Sport 335i and Audi S4.
So then, MB/AMG would be surpassing its rivals, not following them.
Finally, I wouldn't call BMW M "run-of-the-mill." Tobias Moers has openly stated his desire to make AMG cars more dynamic while retaining their signature AMG characteristics. He's had to make the AMG fleet more dynamic because prior to the W204 C63, AMG kept getting obliterated in comparison tests by BMW (not good for growing your brand).
Have a good evening.
03-03-2015, 12:01 AM
#234
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I agree with some of your points but I respectfully disagree with others. As we pointed out a few pages back, Porsche now makes soccer-mom-mobiles (Cayenne) and sedans that look like elongated hot hatches (Panamera). When's the last time you saw a Cayenne at the track?
Also, if MB/AMG execute the C450 well (reviews have heaped praise on it), it can knock off rival platforms like the F30 M Sport 335i and Audi S4.
So then, MB/AMG would be surpassing its rivals, not following them.
Finally, I wouldn't call BMW M "run-of-the-mill." Tobias Moers has openly stated his desire to make AMG cars more dynamic while retaining their signature AMG characteristics. He's had to make the AMG fleet more dynamic because prior to the W204 C63, AMG kept getting obliterated in comparison tests by BMW (not good for growing your brand).
Have a good evening.
Also, if MB/AMG execute the C450 well (reviews have heaped praise on it), it can knock off rival platforms like the F30 M Sport 335i and Audi S4.
So then, MB/AMG would be surpassing its rivals, not following them.
Finally, I wouldn't call BMW M "run-of-the-mill." Tobias Moers has openly stated his desire to make AMG cars more dynamic while retaining their signature AMG characteristics. He's had to make the AMG fleet more dynamic because prior to the W204 C63, AMG kept getting obliterated in comparison tests by BMW (not good for growing your brand).
Have a good evening.
I think we are aligned except for your comments on Panamera and Cayenne. The Panamera would be the equivalent of Mercedes Benz S-Class. People who can afford the S-Class and Panamera, have similar income tax bracket. I wouldn't look at those as anything different from each other. On the other hand, I used to own one of the first few ML320 back in 1998. Cayenne followed suit and created their own SUV line about five years or so ago. Neither one of them do anything at the track other than they are both great in the winter time.
As stated before companies will attempt to make money, but hopefully in a GRACEFUL and DIGNIFIED way. The issue on hand is, is the C450 worthy enough to carry the AMG badge. I respectfully say NO and beg to differ.
Mercedes Benz could have upped the ante by selling these features from what is now on the C450 to the current C400. As stated before "Raise The Bar, And Not Lower The Standards" I think if we ALL agree to compromise and meet in the MIDDLE of this debacle here created by the CORPORATE PIGS at Mercedes Benz, it is OKAY for them to create the C450 line, just NOT PLEASE USE any AMG BADGING, implying that this car C450 is an AMG when in fact it is MERELY tuned by AMG.
We can all argue here until we all turn BLUE and BLACK, and no one will win because the DAMAGE is already done. They (mother Mother Benz) has officially launched and advertised this product as C450 AMG. I have written my position and all I can do is sigh and absorb the BAD decision of the CORPORATE PIGS at Mercedes Benz.
Lets all have a great evening.
Drive safe,
MBenzC32
03-03-2015, 06:30 AM
#236
MBWorld Fanatic!
its a term used to describe Individuals in a corporation who's sole goal is to make money for themselves with a blatant disregard for other individuals well-being, feelings, lifestyle, or in extreme cases whether others live or die.
Corporate pig used to describe MB in this case is describing someone who has decided to water down the AMG brand in the name of money with a blatant disregard for the customers who are sole reason why AMG was successful in the first place. Without the support of the AMG enthusiasts AMG may not have been as big of an icon as it is today.
IMO
Corporate pig used to describe MB in this case is describing someone who has decided to water down the AMG brand in the name of money with a blatant disregard for the customers who are sole reason why AMG was successful in the first place. Without the support of the AMG enthusiasts AMG may not have been as big of an icon as it is today.
IMO
03-03-2015, 06:45 AM
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its a term used to describe Individuals in a corporation who's sole goal is to make money for themselves with a blatant disregard for other individuals well-being, feelings, lifestyle, or in extreme cases whether others live or die.
Corporate pig used to describe MB in this case is describing someone who has decided to water down the AMG brand in the name of money with a blatant disregard for the customers who are sole reason why AMG was successful in the first place. Without the support of the AMG enthusiasts AMG may not have been as big of an icon as it is today.
IMO
Corporate pig used to describe MB in this case is describing someone who has decided to water down the AMG brand in the name of money with a blatant disregard for the customers who are sole reason why AMG was successful in the first place. Without the support of the AMG enthusiasts AMG may not have been as big of an icon as it is today.
IMO
Thank you for elaborating what I meant by CORPORATE PIGS.
You nailed it with your explanation. It is indeed a TOTAL DISREGARD for the PASSIONATE and PURIST fans of what made AMG is today. Have a great day my friend. The only consideration these CORPORATE PIGS are after for is the ALMIGHTY $DOLLAR$. Drive safe,
MBenzC32
03-03-2015, 09:32 AM
#238
its a term used to describe Individuals in a corporation who's sole goal is to make money for themselves with a blatant disregard for other individuals well-being, feelings, lifestyle, or in extreme cases whether others live or die.
Corporate pig used to describe MB in this case is describing someone who has decided to water down the AMG brand in the name of money with a blatant disregard for the customers who are sole reason why AMG was successful in the first place. Without the support of the AMG enthusiasts AMG may not have been as big of an icon as it is today.
IMO
Corporate pig used to describe MB in this case is describing someone who has decided to water down the AMG brand in the name of money with a blatant disregard for the customers who are sole reason why AMG was successful in the first place. Without the support of the AMG enthusiasts AMG may not have been as big of an icon as it is today.
IMO
03-03-2015, 10:50 AM
#239
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St3v, in MB press release for the c450 they state unequivocally that it is an AMG car. It seems the AMG line of cars is being expanded for broader appeal. If you guys think that's brand dilution that's your perrogative. But it is definately being marketed and sold as a "entry level AMG car" and that's a direct quote from MB.
Not quite. The C450 is one of 2 "AMG Sport models" along with the GLE450. The differentiation between an "AMG Sport model" and an "AMG" is obviously real; although Mercedes isn't going out of it's way to point out this stratification. The C63 isn't categorized as an "AMG Sport Model" it is an "AMG".
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/latest.p...0141210_gle450
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/latest.p...=20150112_c450
I'm saving my pennies for a GTS, but if I had a W205 C63 on order I might tell the dealer I'm thinking about the C450 AMG instead to make a point (MB doesn't want to sell C450 at the expense of C63 sales).
If the the "AMG sport model" is supposed to compete with the BMW "M Sport" at least Benz is only offering "AMG sport models" on sporty cars, as opposed to BMW where you can get an "M sport" base 528. Perhaps Benz should have hand-built the engine and called it a C45 AMG - The S, SL, and G classes have 2 AMG models.
Last edited by rediesel; 03-03-2015 at 11:54 AM.
03-03-2015, 10:58 AM
#240
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Not quite. The C450 is one of 2 "AMG Sport models" along with the GLE450. The differentiation between an "AMG Sport model" and an "AMG" is obviously real; although Mercedes isn't going out of it's way to point out this stratification. The C63 isn't categorized as an "AMG Sport Model" it is an "AMG".
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/latest.p...0141210_gle450
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/latest.p...=20150112_c450
I'm saving my pennies for a GTS, but I had a W205 C63 on order I might tell the dealer I'm thinking about the C450 AMG instead to make a point (MB doesn't want to sell C450 at the expense of C63 sales).
If the the "AMG sport model" is supposed to compete with the BMW "M Sport" at least Benz is only offering "AMG sport models" on sporty cars, as opposed to BMW where you can get an "M sport" base 528. Perhaps Benz should have hand-built the engine and called it a C45 AMG - The S, SL, and G classes have 2 AMG models.
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/latest.p...0141210_gle450
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/latest.p...=20150112_c450
I'm saving my pennies for a GTS, but I had a W205 C63 on order I might tell the dealer I'm thinking about the C450 AMG instead to make a point (MB doesn't want to sell C450 at the expense of C63 sales).
If the the "AMG sport model" is supposed to compete with the BMW "M Sport" at least Benz is only offering "AMG sport models" on sporty cars, as opposed to BMW where you can get an "M sport" base 528. Perhaps Benz should have hand-built the engine and called it a C45 AMG - The S, SL, and G classes have 2 AMG models.
Just to expand on what you posted in the links:
"The new C 450 AMG 4MATIC expands the product range of the performance and sports car brand of Mercedes-Benz with another new AMG sports model".
Keep in mind this is a separate lineup from Mercedes-AMG. This expands the range of the Mercedes-Benz lineup, has nothing to do with Mercedes-AMG. They go to great pains throughout their literature to distinguish the new model as being Mercedes-Benz.
As an attractive entry into the world of AMG, the C 450 AMG 4MATIC combines a 270-kW (367-hp) 3.0-liter twin-turbo V6 engine with a permanent Performance all-wheel-drive system and sophisticated suspension technology adopted from the Mercedes-AMG C 63.
Can anyone spot the difference in names and nomenclature?
03-03-2015, 11:20 AM
#241
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WRong. The c450 is part of the range. It's an AMG car. MB could not be more clear about this.
If/when I buy a c450 I will demand entry to the AMG PL as I will have bought an AMG car.
With this model, the tenet "one man one engine' no longer holds true for AMG as the engines for this car will be assembly line produced. A more accurate statement now would be "AMG cars higher up in the range tend to have hand built engines".
I totally agree with the argument that it is AMG brand dilution, that is to say I'm not saying whether it is or isn't but there is an argument to be had. Perhaps short term gain with more c450 AMG sales, but long term pain as the AMG tag loses some of its status.
However, there is no argument on the AMG or not front. MB have even dropped the Sport bit and constantly refer to it as the c450 AMG 4MATIC.
If/when I buy a c450 I will demand entry to the AMG PL as I will have bought an AMG car.
With this model, the tenet "one man one engine' no longer holds true for AMG as the engines for this car will be assembly line produced. A more accurate statement now would be "AMG cars higher up in the range tend to have hand built engines".
I totally agree with the argument that it is AMG brand dilution, that is to say I'm not saying whether it is or isn't but there is an argument to be had. Perhaps short term gain with more c450 AMG sales, but long term pain as the AMG tag loses some of its status.
However, there is no argument on the AMG or not front. MB have even dropped the Sport bit and constantly refer to it as the c450 AMG 4MATIC.
03-03-2015, 11:29 AM
#242
MBWorld Fanatic!
Coladin they state later the "AMG sport models" are part of the Mercedes-AMG family, but I do think you are correct and they are actually titled as Mercedes-Benz.
My takeaway is the "AMG sport models" are a new product line separate from the "less accessable" (read - more exclusive) AMG models.
"The GLE 450 AMG Coupé is our first sports model, and further highly emotional and performance-oriented models will follow in the near future. The new product line from Mercedes-AMG has allowed us to make true sports car technology and the fascination of motorsports more accessible", says Tobias Moers
My takeaway is the "AMG sport models" are a new product line separate from the "less accessable" (read - more exclusive) AMG models.
"The GLE 450 AMG Coupé is our first sports model, and further highly emotional and performance-oriented models will follow in the near future. The new product line from Mercedes-AMG has allowed us to make true sports car technology and the fascination of motorsports more accessible", says Tobias Moers
03-03-2015, 11:47 AM
#243
MBWorld Fanatic!
By default the other AMG product line is less accessible - more exclusive.
If you don't get PL access perhaps lobby Mercedes-AMG to create an "Isolated Salon" for the "AMG sport model" owners to troll on.
03-03-2015, 12:24 PM
#244
MBWorld Fanatic!
Jrcart, I am that person in the market for a quiet comfortable car but also one that I can have some fun in when the mood takes me. This may sound perverse to you c63 guys but I'm kind of hoping the c450 will be that compromise car between luxury and performance. Disappointed it won't have airmatic. Is this confirmed?
Without wishing to flog a dead horse even further, and I've been told off by a moderator, I'll say one final thing on the AMG or not debate. I've read the official press release for the c450 and that leaves you in no doubt where MB are pitching this car. It explicitly states that the c450 is part of the "AMG family". I'm not saying whether that's a good thing or bad thing, but it is definately an AMG as far as MB are concerned.
The press release is towards the end of the topspeed.com review of the c450,
Without wishing to flog a dead horse even further, and I've been told off by a moderator, I'll say one final thing on the AMG or not debate. I've read the official press release for the c450 and that leaves you in no doubt where MB are pitching this car. It explicitly states that the c450 is part of the "AMG family". I'm not saying whether that's a good thing or bad thing, but it is definately an AMG as far as MB are concerned.
The press release is towards the end of the topspeed.com review of the c450,
03-03-2015, 12:32 PM
#245
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For the life of me, I can't get you dude. We all read the same reviews and press releases so how come you are the only one who keep insisting that its an AMG vehicle? Unless you just like to stir the pot again and again.
03-03-2015, 03:10 PM
#246
MBWorld Fanatic!
Let him keep saying its an AMG when everyone knows its not. He drives a ford focus for gods sake. He wants to make the jump to an AMG. He can keep pretending he's getting an AMG.
03-03-2015, 04:25 PM
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he is saying it to make him feel better about himself. so when he buys the C450 he wants to think he is buying an AMG Let him keep saying its an AMG when everyone knows its not. He drives a ford focus for gods sake. He wants to make the jump to an AMG. He can keep pretending he's getting an AMG.
Let him keep saying its an AMG when everyone knows its not. He drives a ford focus for gods sake. He wants to make the jump to an AMG. He can keep pretending he's getting an AMG.What I can say is, We can teach people how to read, however we cannot teach people how to think.
Drive safe,
MBenzC32
03-03-2015, 04:45 PM
#249
MBWorld Fanatic!
If I make good money I'm not gonna drive around in a Ford Focus just saying. I'd buy what ever the heck I want
03-03-2015, 05:07 PM
#250
this jcart dude strikes me as the type of guy (boy? is he a teenager? sure acts like one) who probably inherited a **** load of money or had a silver spoon all his life and likes to pretend he earned it all by himself through "hard work". lol. he will probably respond to this with a nice **** size contest describing what he does for a living and how he earned his money. save your time dude, i probably wont read it and dont even care.
anyway i couldnt care less about this argument, but i will say that i like the c450. i can also see why some would be mad at it though. if they offered it exactly as is, but without the amg badge, i think it would be an great buy.
anyway i couldnt care less about this argument, but i will say that i like the c450. i can also see why some would be mad at it though. if they offered it exactly as is, but without the amg badge, i think it would be an great buy.
