bigbodybeeenz

I'd like to hear some thought from people who have a C63 regarding the manual shift mode. How fast are the upshifts, downshifts? Any delay or instant?

I have not driven a C63, however I drove the IS-F and the shifts were pretty much immediate. Also, I have driven an older Carrera, and the delay was unbearable, I could not drive it with the paddle shifters.

I have a C63 on order, but like l said I have not test driven it. I don't think I will buy it if there is a shift delay...annoys the hell out of me.

Thoughts?

MB_Forever

Unfortunately there IS a shift delay with all the 63 7-G trannies but it's not too bad. The exception to this, of course, is the new MCT transmission introduced in the SL63 with up-shift time of 100 ms (which will probably find its way into all future AMG models). There are no specs on how fast the regular automatic AMG transmission shifts. Almost every reference I've encountered just states that the shifts are 50% faster than the regular Mercedes transmission.

e34m20

+1 I'd like to hear about this too

ShanSL350

IMO the delay in shift changes are longer in S Mode and C Mode if you try and use the Stick or Paddles to tell the car to change however if you are in M Mode then they are pretty instant. Better than the 997 IMO and quicker.

Also as i am sure you will have read in M Mode the car will hold the selcted gear regardless of speed and flashes up in Red on the dash to tell you to change.

1st amg

This was a huge concern for me as always driving standard cars i thought this could be a BIG issue, well after having the car for a week and 90% of the time driving her in M (manual) i do not miss standard at all. I was surprised at the shifts in the manual mode, they are pretty accurate, the downshifts will surprise you big time, the double clutch and throttle bip will leave you very content, not missing the manual gearbox IMO.. With a few bimmer guys posting here, they seemed to be trashing this 7spd, so i was really happy to discover that this gearbox is quite accurate, besides, the way this car makes you feel, the sounds, the looks, i would not be as happy in a new M3 with a manual gearbox, i drove that car prior to ordering the C63 and was very dissapointed, the C63 makes you feel like king of the road with that crazy sounding exhaust and throttle blips on downshifts. I am very shocked that this car is street legal the way it sounds, i have had cars with lots and lots of work on them and they were friggin lous, but i think this car stock is louder. Of course it is a very intoxicating sound, sounds like no other car.

alexyanglaw

I went to my dealer to test drive a C63 just to check out the difference between M mode, S mode and C mode.

I gotta say only the M mode is acceptable, I was really impressed by M mode, but the S mode and C mode sucks, lags all the time and C mode even upshift by itself when you hit the red line, you have no fully control on C mode.

If I buy a C63, I will only drive it in M mode.

Hans Delbruck

In M mode, there is about a one second delay between paddle pull and gear shift on upshifts. On downshifts, there is not much delay at all between paddle pull and the blip/downshift. It is not instant, but the shift is occurring as you release the paddle... upshifts on the other hand occur a split second after you've already released the paddle.

I usually drive in "S" mode because I don't like the delay in "M" mode (although small) on upshifts... unless I am driving aggressively, in which case I prefer "M" mode for total control (or as much control as you can get with a slushbox!) I use "C" mode when in bumper-to-bumper traffic because it only goes down to 2nd gear and I can creep along without the tranny having to downshift to 1st, then upshift to 2nd, then downshift to 1st over and over. "C" is great for traffic because the shifts are undetectable. In "S" mode the shifts are quicker but not as smooth.

MB_Forever

There is a definitely a very noticeable delay during shifts even in M mode. The delay is definitely subjective: some will think it's too long while others don't even notice it. But to the experienced, the delay is there and very noticeable. Unfortunately, the AMG transmissions (although powerful) are very slow in shifting compared to other transmissions in high performance cars. In a time when almost every high performance car have a super advanced, super fast dual-clutch technology transmission, Mercedes still stuck by their traditional fully automatic tranny, which AMG slightly modifies and uses as well. I recall reading sometime ago that the AMG shifts at around 300 ms. Here are some examples of how fast other transmissions are doing.....

Bugatti Veyron (Direct Shift Gearbox): 8 ms
Ferrari F430 Scuderia: 60 ms
BMW M5 E60 (and M3) with SMG II/III: 80 ms
Ferrari FXX: Under 100 ms (claimed to be 60 to 80 ms but unverified)
Ferrari 360: 150 ms
Ferrari Enzo: 150 ms
Audi TT Quattro 3.2 (Direct Shift): 200 ms
Ferrari 575M: 220 ms
BMW M3 E36 with SMG I: 220 ms
Aston Martin Vanquish: 250 ms

Fastest manual shifter: 260 ms (not consistently)
The average manual car driver: 500 ms
A Long or Extended Shift Time is considered: 625 ms or more

Even the new MCT transmission in the SL63 can only shift as fast as 100 ms, which doesn't even beat the 3 year old SMGII or SMGIII by BMW. There are rumors that BMW's new DSC transmission equipped in the new M3 is capable of shifting as fast as 50 ms, but we won't know for sure until more specs are out.

Bones

The new SL 65 Black is quoted at 250 ms. MB did not do enough with the 7speed.. The throttle blips are great and very much needed, but the shift speed is to be desired. Lexus has done a good job with ISF and jaguar has a great autobox i n manual mode.

MB_Forever

Actually, the 7-speed supposedly shifts a little faster than the 5-speed, but I'm not sure if that includes the new SL65 Black yet?

Bones

I do not think that includes the new Black. AMG tweaked the 5speed just to get to 250ms. Feel sorry for CLK Black guys, they do not have the throttle blips nor do they have the 250ms that the SL Black has. Bad job by AMG on that front.

Glock Guru

Is the shift speed something that can be changed with some "Tuner Work" to the ECM?

Everyone is always after speed and power when it comes to tuning, but lets not forget about making final refinements to the overall package we already have to make it a better all around car. Just something to think about.

-Troy

QQQ

35% not 50% faster.

MB_Forever

Actually, the 35% faster is for the 5-speed being faster than the traditional Mercedes transmission, and 50% faster is for the 7-Speed being faster than the traditional Mercedes transmission. The 7-Speed is rated 15% faster than the 5-speed due to the closer gear ratios.

Arctic White

So far, the only information on C63 shift times is someone saying, "I recall reading sometime ago that the AMG shifts at around 300 ms..."

To me, that is an unsubstantiated claim without a reference. Please post a citation.

MB_Forever

The tranny in the C63 uses the new AMG SPEEDSHIFT software, which is quoted (in the owner's manual as well as on MB's website) to shift up to 50% faster than the regular Mercedes tranny. Unfortunately, Mercedes provides no documentation on how fast their tranny actually shifts. But a while ago, a magazine tested shift speeds of an E500 and recorded shift speeds of 460 to 480 ms (I couldn't find the link, but if you have time for a thorough search, you should be able to find it). As you can see, this makes the C63 capable of shifts up to 230 ms. But that speed is still 4 times slower than the new DCT by BMW equipped in the new M3. Even Mercedes's new MCT tranny with dual clutches can only shift up to 100 ms, which is 20% slower than SMG II equipped in the M5/M6 (3 years earlier) and twice as slow as their new DCT. We need Mercedes to develop a "really" fast tranny to shift as fast as 8 to 10 ms

Arctic White

Although it doesn't really matter, I am still not convinced of these speculations... This is the problem with forums. People just posting (no offense).


So now it is 230ms instead of 300ms?

How do you know the "regular Mercedes Tranny" is the E500 transmission?

Where did you find this magazine from a while ago?

So far, the only thing I have read is that the new SL63 seven speed tranny shifts in 100ms (link) and further detail about the new 7-speed here. I am not really sure how this tranny differs from the one in the C63, but I would like to see an article link such as the one I posted regarding the speed of the new 7 speed in the C63. Not surprisingly, I have read many similar threads throughout the BMW and Lexus IS-F forums about this exact topic. Maybe you can get some similar insight from those sources as well.

Either way, I can almost guarantee it shifts faster than the average driver with a manual transmission.

MB_Forever

230 to 240 ms is the expected fastest time. After adaptations, you're looking at 280 to 350 ms depending how much you drive in traffic and crowded areas.

The E500 tranny is the same one used in CL500, SL500, CLS500, S500, etc....

Online, and like I said, if you really search, you should find it.

The SL63 tranny with MCT does not use a torque converter, and so it is not a fully automatic tranny. The 7G tranny in the C63 has a torque converter.

No argument there...... it should be able to shift almost twice as fast as an average driver.

Ruff

My comparrison is between my 2005 C6 Corvette and the C63. The Vette did not have the best manual shift linkage in the world and SCCA SOLO II rules will not let you change out the shifter and stay in the SS (super stock) class.

In my case, the C63 shifts perfectly every time, much better than I could do routinely in a heal toe down shift, and with that blipping mechanism.

The ms rate on up and down shifts works with me and seems on par with the 128 I drove previously. On the tight courses where it might matter, I spend more time trying to not hit cones and less time shifting.

I have my first run this Sunday in the new class SK1/FS and everyone is on street tires. I will post my experience in a new thread.

-RF

Arctic White

As I mentioned earlier, I could care less what the actual shift speed is because it is probably faster than the average driver with a manual transmission.

However, after your little quotefest, I still don't believe any of the numbers you posted about the transmission speed. I searched the internet (google) and did not see anything about a C63 shift speed.

In addition, it still seems like you are still coming up with new numbers..."230 to 240 ms is the expected fastest time. After adaptations, you're looking at 280 to 350 ms depending how much you drive in traffic and crowded areas." Once again, WHERE ARE THESE NUMBERS COMING FROM?

"The E500 tranny is the same one used in CL500, SL500, CLS500, S500, etc...." How does this make it the "regular Mercedes tranny" you mentioned earlier. Do you have part numbers or references that these are the ones which are 50% slower than the C63 in your fantasy article?

All I want to know is where you read this information. I am not trying to give you a hard time, I just want to confirm the accuracy of these statements. I go to forums to do research and learn new useful information. It sucks to constantly read unreliable information from postwhores who can't back their **** up. Please post a link, and I will definitely give you credit where credit is due.