KLEEMANN C63 headers for $995!!
03-21-2011, 03:46 PM
#26
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03-21-2011, 03:49 PM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
Not arguing guys, just curious. I have a buddy I am trying to steer towards a used C63 and we are both curious about what's out there.
This setup with a tune should provide a solid increase and might not be as loud as the LT set ups....something of a concern to us old farts
.
Clearly LT's and a more aggressive tune, say the MHP combo, will yeild more whp - however, the price difference is substantial.
This setup with a tune should provide a solid increase and might not be as loud as the LT set ups....something of a concern to us old farts
.Clearly LT's and a more aggressive tune, say the MHP combo, will yeild more whp - however, the price difference is substantial.
I think the point being made was you could just delete the primarys and tune it and see the same gains.
03-21-2011, 03:59 PM
#28
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2012 E63 PP, 2012 Ferrari 458, 2012 Boxster S
I went from K2 (manifolds and tune) to LTH and while I can feel the difference it is not as dramatic as you would think.
I gained 22 HP from K2 to LTH on the same dyno.
Ken
I gained 22 HP from K2 to LTH on the same dyno.
Ken
03-21-2011, 04:08 PM
#29
Super Member
Im wondering if when I get the Kleemann manifold set up and Tune done if the engine will run hotter, cooler or make no difference.
btw, I just got off the phone with the place thats doing my install and dyno and they said that the hp and tq gains are a solid 50-60 for both hp and tq. They have done this set up for a lot of C63's. The price was right. With the $995 exhaust and the $749 tune, 1744 bucks isnt too bad.
They are rounding up the packages dyno numbers for me so, Im looking forward to seeing those.
btw, I just got off the phone with the place thats doing my install and dyno and they said that the hp and tq gains are a solid 50-60 for both hp and tq. They have done this set up for a lot of C63's. The price was right. With the $995 exhaust and the $749 tune, 1744 bucks isnt too bad.
They are rounding up the packages dyno numbers for me so, Im looking forward to seeing those.
03-21-2011, 04:18 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
I gave up chasing headers due to (in order of importance to me):
1) Cost (these are still more effective than the PLM's Superlubricity tested).
2) Noise factor.
3) Emissions. If I added primary cats to headers, the difference in power between headers and primary cats vs. K2, from what I read, is not substantial which leads me back to reason #1.
Considering what a set of DPs are going for (you will still have the OEM choke point at the primary) this is a no-brainer. At this price point, I am more than willing to give up the power of the LTs. I am guessing they are blowing these out in anticipation of releasing their tube headers.
I am going to couple these up with an X-pipe from MBH; should sound awesome without the bark of LTs.
Last edited by Sincity; 03-21-2011 at 04:53 PM.
03-21-2011, 04:19 PM
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
Im wondering if when I get the Kleemann manifold set up and Tune done if the engine will run hotter, cooler or make no difference.
btw, I just got off the phone with the place thats doing my install and dyno and they said that the hp and tq gains are a solid 50-60 for both hp and tq. They have done this set up for a lot of C63's. The price was right. With the $995 exhaust and the $749 tune, 1744 bucks isnt too bad.
They are rounding up the packages dyno numbers for me so, Im looking forward to seeing those.
btw, I just got off the phone with the place thats doing my install and dyno and they said that the hp and tq gains are a solid 50-60 for both hp and tq. They have done this set up for a lot of C63's. The price was right. With the $995 exhaust and the $749 tune, 1744 bucks isnt too bad.
They are rounding up the packages dyno numbers for me so, Im looking forward to seeing those.
03-21-2011, 04:41 PM
#33
Super Member
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...at-x-pipe.html
Wow, thats some respectable gains but I do want my car to still pass epa stuff and im taking it that an x-pipe will jeopardize this?
03-21-2011, 04:44 PM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
^ Shouldn't because the Kleemann K2 comes with primary cats and the secondary cats are not monitored with an O2 sensor. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
About the X-pipe, I think the gains are only about 5 WHP by themselves and not sure what the overall gain with the K2 hardware will be.
About the X-pipe, I think the gains are only about 5 WHP by themselves and not sure what the overall gain with the K2 hardware will be.
03-21-2011, 05:13 PM
#35
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2012 E63 PP, 2012 Ferrari 458, 2012 Boxster S
From stock to K2:
From K2 to LTH:
All runs on the same dyno performed by Kleemann Denmark.
So the difference for me was 32 HP at the crank which should translate to around 26 HP at the wheels. Additionally I'm not running the most aggressive LTHs so figure in another few HP for maximum output.
If I had to do it all over again I would probably go with the K2 package and spend the price difference on a Pulley and some exterior mods (Dads hood etc.).
You can never have too much power but remember to factor in the bleeding ears you get along with the LTHs. The K2 package was for me an aggressive sleeper while my current LTH setup is very much 'in your face'.
Ken
From K2 to LTH:
All runs on the same dyno performed by Kleemann Denmark.
So the difference for me was 32 HP at the crank which should translate to around 26 HP at the wheels. Additionally I'm not running the most aggressive LTHs so figure in another few HP for maximum output.
If I had to do it all over again I would probably go with the K2 package and spend the price difference on a Pulley and some exterior mods (Dads hood etc.).
You can never have too much power but remember to factor in the bleeding ears you get along with the LTHs. The K2 package was for me an aggressive sleeper while my current LTH setup is very much 'in your face'.
Ken
03-21-2011, 05:33 PM
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
Which long tubes do you have?
From stock to K2:
From K2 to LTH:
All runs on the same dyno performed by Kleemann Denmark.
So the difference for me was 32 HP at the crank which should translate to around 26 HP at the wheels. Additionally I'm not running the most aggressive LTHs so figure in another few HP for maximum output.
If I had to do it all over again I would probably go with the K2 package and spend the price difference on a Pulley and some exterior mods (Dads hood etc.).
You can never have too much power but remember to factor in the bleeding ears you get along with the LTHs. The K2 package was for me an aggressive sleeper while my current LTH setup is very much 'in your face'.
Ken
From K2 to LTH:
All runs on the same dyno performed by Kleemann Denmark.
So the difference for me was 32 HP at the crank which should translate to around 26 HP at the wheels. Additionally I'm not running the most aggressive LTHs so figure in another few HP for maximum output.
If I had to do it all over again I would probably go with the K2 package and spend the price difference on a Pulley and some exterior mods (Dads hood etc.).
You can never have too much power but remember to factor in the bleeding ears you get along with the LTHs. The K2 package was for me an aggressive sleeper while my current LTH setup is very much 'in your face'.
Ken
03-21-2011, 05:46 PM
#38
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03-21-2011, 05:50 PM
#39
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03-21-2011, 06:26 PM
#41
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M5, C63, 335Ci
Im wondering if when I get the Kleemann manifold set up and Tune done if the engine will run hotter, cooler or make no difference.
btw, I just got off the phone with the place thats doing my install and dyno and they said that the hp and tq gains are a solid 50-60 for both hp and tq. They have done this set up for a lot of C63's. The price was right. With the $995 exhaust and the $749 tune, 1744 bucks isnt too bad.
They are rounding up the packages dyno numbers for me so, Im looking forward to seeing those.
btw, I just got off the phone with the place thats doing my install and dyno and they said that the hp and tq gains are a solid 50-60 for both hp and tq. They have done this set up for a lot of C63's. The price was right. With the $995 exhaust and the $749 tune, 1744 bucks isnt too bad.
They are rounding up the packages dyno numbers for me so, Im looking forward to seeing those.
I'm having MBH headers installed on my C63 at Autoscope and will be going with the header tune they developed. I'm going to have my car dynoed before/after as well, so I'll be curious to see the difference in HP & TQ. I'll be a bit disappointed if I don't see significantly more power from my setup, but you never know.
03-21-2011, 06:53 PM
#42
MBWorld Fanatic!
a respectable tune primary cat delete and a nice set of lightweight wheels would prob net the same dyno numbers and you would have nice wheels??? a few $$ more then the price of these manifolds - install of course thatll prob be about 1,000.00 .. could get you forgestars, throw on a set of lightweight rotors and atleast you would add performance and looks and most likely beat a car with a K2 setup!
03-21-2011, 06:53 PM
#43
Super Member
I think you will see solid gains, and the price is great. HP for $ is great for that combo.
I'm having MBH headers installed on my C63 at Autoscope and will be going with the header tune they developed. I'm going to have my car dynoed before/after as well, so I'll be curious to see the difference in HP & TQ. I'll be a bit disappointed if I don't see significantly more power from my setup, but you never know.
I'm having MBH headers installed on my C63 at Autoscope and will be going with the header tune they developed. I'm going to have my car dynoed before/after as well, so I'll be curious to see the difference in HP & TQ. I'll be a bit disappointed if I don't see significantly more power from my setup, but you never know.
Have you set up an appointment yet?
03-21-2011, 07:27 PM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
03-21-2011, 07:34 PM
#45
MBWorld Fanatic!
Since there are DPs out there using stock manifolds, I wonder if we can install these K2 cats with V bands and swap them out with test pipes for track use? The K2 manifolds remove the restrictive primary outlet area with a larger diameter one.
03-22-2011, 03:35 PM
#47
MBWorld Fanatic!
Im wondering if when I get the Kleemann manifold set up and Tune done if the engine will run hotter, cooler or make no difference.
btw, I just got off the phone with the place thats doing my install and dyno and they said that the hp and tq gains are a solid 50-60 for both hp and tq. They have done this set up for a lot of C63's. The price was right. With the $995 exhaust and the $749 tune, 1744 bucks isnt too bad.
They are rounding up the packages dyno numbers for me so, Im looking forward to seeing those.
btw, I just got off the phone with the place thats doing my install and dyno and they said that the hp and tq gains are a solid 50-60 for both hp and tq. They have done this set up for a lot of C63's. The price was right. With the $995 exhaust and the $749 tune, 1744 bucks isnt too bad.
They are rounding up the packages dyno numbers for me so, Im looking forward to seeing those.
03-22-2011, 05:06 PM
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
From stock to K2:
From K2 to LTH:
All runs on the same dyno performed by Kleemann Denmark.
So the difference for me was 32 HP at the crank which should translate to around 26 HP at the wheels. Additionally I'm not running the most aggressive LTHs so figure in another few HP for maximum output.
If I had to do it all over again I would probably go with the K2 package and spend the price difference on a Pulley and some exterior mods (Dads hood etc.).
You can never have too much power but remember to factor in the bleeding ears you get along with the LTHs. The K2 package was for me an aggressive sleeper while my current LTH setup is very much 'in your face'.
Ken
From K2 to LTH:
All runs on the same dyno performed by Kleemann Denmark.
So the difference for me was 32 HP at the crank which should translate to around 26 HP at the wheels. Additionally I'm not running the most aggressive LTHs so figure in another few HP for maximum output.
If I had to do it all over again I would probably go with the K2 package and spend the price difference on a Pulley and some exterior mods (Dads hood etc.).
You can never have too much power but remember to factor in the bleeding ears you get along with the LTHs. The K2 package was for me an aggressive sleeper while my current LTH setup is very much 'in your face'.
Ken
a respectable tune primary cat delete and a nice set of lightweight wheels would prob net the same dyno numbers and you would have nice wheels??? a few $$ more then the price of these manifolds - install of course thatll prob be about 1,000.00 .. could get you forgestars, throw on a set of lightweight rotors and atleast you would add performance and looks and most likely beat a car with a K2 setup!
A. They do make power
B. The car is not vastly changed in how it operates (noise levels, drone, drive ability, emissions...etc)
C. No need to hack up exhaust!
D. It is generally a bolt on mod
E. Easily reversible (if you want to sell the car, do warranty work, or return it to stock)
I agree though you can take another approach for power (wheels, weight saving etc, but you can also add those with a shorti header and make more power...
03-22-2011, 05:34 PM
#49
MBWorld Fanatic!
Those kleemans are not shorties!
And almost everything you wrote in your abc stuff holds true for long tubes
And almost everything you wrote in your abc stuff holds true for long tubes
Indeed you make points i believe people should take note of. People assume LTH are fine & great, but they have a big draw back as you stated and effect the daily driving experience.
The point is he tried it and felt it and other have also. You can not comprehend the difference unless you have tried it. The whole point of making shorti's for these cars, 55k included is because of the following:
A. They do make power
B. The car is not vastly changed in how it operates (noise levels, drone, drive ability, emissions...etc)
C. No need to hack up exhaust!
D. It is generally a bolt on mod
E. Easily reversible (if you want to sell the car, do warranty work, or return it to stock)
I agree though you can take another approach for power (wheels, weight saving etc, but you can also add those with a shorti header and make more power...
The point is he tried it and felt it and other have also. You can not comprehend the difference unless you have tried it. The whole point of making shorti's for these cars, 55k included is because of the following:
A. They do make power
B. The car is not vastly changed in how it operates (noise levels, drone, drive ability, emissions...etc)
C. No need to hack up exhaust!
D. It is generally a bolt on mod
E. Easily reversible (if you want to sell the car, do warranty work, or return it to stock)
I agree though you can take another approach for power (wheels, weight saving etc, but you can also add those with a shorti header and make more power...
03-22-2011, 05:34 PM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
With K2 on a C63, you need to cut and weld onto the stock downpipe. Not sure if anyone has cut and clamped them on yet.
