RobBentley

I can confirm the extra power and torque on the P31 is noticeable on the road, having had both back to back. We also did some side to side acceleration runs with the cars and the P31 does start to creep away from the standard car at high engine speeds, exactly what you would expect from the power graphs...

With regards to power claims, we can only really demonstrate you the differences between the two on the same day. Different conditions in dyno cells are obviously going to produce different results - plus quite a few dynometers are quite 'happy' with numbers, particularly some european makes. The Mustang Dyno is extremely accurate but unfortunately this quite often disappoints quite a few people.

I've seen people with Audi R8's claiming 450+ bhp with a remap, truth be told they produce about 375-385bhp standard and 415-425bhp tuned.

Gremlin9

If you are aware that you are driving a p31 vs a non-p31, that is where the placebo effect comes into play.
It would be more valid if you drove both cars without knowing beforehand which was p31, i.e. a blinded trial.

The placebo effect can be very powerful and it must be controlled for...

The video you linked was from OE Tuning -- of course, they have no reason to have any bias

Gremlin9

Originally Posted by Rsquad911
I can for sure feel the difference between the P31 vs Non P31. I drove them back to back... (my P31 vs my friends NON P31) and the feeling was night and day. The P31 pulled harder from start to finish vs a non P31.


Rob,

Would you agree with Rsquad911 that the "P31 pulled harder from start to finish vs a non P31"?

Or was it only at higher speeds that you felt a difference?

Thanks for your response.

RobBentley

On the road, with the cars side by side... the P31 started to pull away from the standard car from about 5000rpm.

Rsquad911

What bias? They raced a non p31 vs a P31 equipped car. If it was biased wouldn't they want their OE Tuned car to pull away from a P31 equipped car and not MATCH it?

Anyhow, I know what I felt and I know how each perform on the road. Until you have experienced it you can continue to call it a "Placebo 31"

Rsquad911

This is true to what I have experienced.

Both cars in S+ mode from a dig... As soon as P31 hit 4500-5000rpm it pulled away and kept pulling from the non P31.

Gremlin9

So then your statement about it pulling harder from "start to finish" was an exaggeration?

Otherwise, wouldn't the p31 have pulled ahead from the very start?

Rsquad911

Wow, nit picky much?

It doesn't take much to get to 4500rpm from a dig in these cars ya know.

By the time my car gets traction 4500rpm is a "start" for me.

RobBentley

Yup - this is what we experienced, but it also makes sense looking at the power graphs of a Standard vs P31 car... below about 5k/rpm there is no reason the P31 would pull away as the standard car is producing the same power!

Also, I'd also like to confirm that both our test cars where fitted with exactly the same tyres (Yokohama AD08) to ensure there where no differences both on the road and on the dyno...

rory breaker

How on earth do you come to this conclusion?

There is a NOTICEABLE difference in the graphs from 4k up. Look at the chart yourself. How much racing are you doing under 4k, out of curiosity?

Not to mention the guy who posted it in the first place is saying there was a noticeable difference on the road, side by side. As well as folks who have OWNED both cars (like myself) who will tell you there is a noticeable difference.

Are we reading the same thread here??

Rsquad911

+63 unless we are just P31 Fanboys

Pickles

Rob, G'Day from Aus......Excellent post mate.
As a P31 owner, I think the power differences you demonstrated were about where they should be.
Ain't no "placebo effect" here either...P31 is a LOT "more" than "just 22KW"...I'm very happy to have this "package" in our C63.
Thanks again Rob.
Cheers, Pickles.

gthal

Why wouldn't someone be able to feel a difference... 30hp on the top end could very well be felt. If ~30hp is a placebo then I'll take two please . Also, check out the numerous videos of P31 vs non cars and there is a difference. Whether the difference is worth it to someone is another matter. I did NOT buy a P31 for the tune (or whatever it is), I bought it for the LSD, brakes, CF interior and the extra power but I wouldn't have bought it for the power alone.

BTW... if the difference in power is at 5,000+ RPM, you experience that in EVERY gear including first so you would feel the power from essentially the "start". See how long it takes to hit 5,000 RPM from a dead stop in 1st... maybe 1.5 seconds. No need in being defensive or nit picking details as there is really no argument to be won here as the P31 has been proven to have more power... period.

Gremlin9

Okay, I stand corrected.
I apologize to you and Rsquad911 for being naive.
Thank you for your explanation, it is very helpful.

-- Future p31 owner

Dkmr

I feel a big difference between the p31 vs non p31 ,when I test drove the two at the dealer , I finally pick the p31 .

Rsquad911

No need for apologies. We are all learning from each other here.

You will not regret ordering the P31!

DiscoZ

Drove both. "P31" felt much stronger. Non-P31 felt like my old FBO M3 with more torque. P31 was noticibly faster.

-=Hot|Ice=-

How does P31 add HP but no TQ? This has boggled my mind for ages.

DiscoZ

... with the same redline, the only thing that makes sense to me is it holds more torque longer. I.e. it doesn't dip as quickly in the P31. I just know that from 4.5-7K, the P31 felt like it ripped harder than the non-P31.

-=Hot|Ice=-

So MB is holding something back. We know that the P31 is underrated from the factory HP wise. It would be awesome to get a stock one on the dyno to find out.

driftmotion

you could just compare parts list to see where the differences are!?!

RobBentley

You are correct. The torque doesn't fall off as quickly on the P31 where it can breath better at higher RPM. Has nobody looked at the comparison graph I posted of Stock vs P31 power and torque??

RNS-11Z

i am curious to know the differences between p31 and non p31 cars

rory breaker

Dont get discouraged by the riff raff...most of us are following just fine, and thx for posting.

sbce90

Only reason not to get P31 is because you're a tight ****.