stock brake pads up to the job for the track?

[natman316]

Hey guys, I am planning to take my c63 to a road course for the first time next week, I was wondering if I should change out the brake pads or/ and brake fluid before I run. Can the stock brakes take the track without fading too much? My car is relatively new, only 5000 miles on the clock. are there anything else I should do to prep for the track? or is it good to go pretty much as is. thanks.

To remove this ad, register today or login if you already are registered!

[DuaneC63]

Your brakes will turn into mush after about 3-5 laps due to overheating. Your stock brake fluid will also boilover. Street tires won't last the day. All these componets will be pretty much be trashed by a day at the track. If you're serious about tracking at 100% car and driver ability, change rotors, pads, brake fluid and use DOT approved track tires. These are all DYI proceedures but can run into some money. Make sure you empty the car of anything thats not bolted down and take the spare/tools out of the trunk. Run a cool down lap before you exit the track and don't put your ebrake on. After a track day, flush all the fluids and change back your stock parts.

[qship5]

While I will agree that you can over drive the stock brakes, they are more than up to the task of a track day depending on the track you will be running, your driving style and ability. More aggressive pads will certainly resist fading longer, but they are not 100% necessary. Stock rotors, especially if it is a PP car, are up to track use even with more aggressive pads.

I would strongly suggest doing as DuaneC63 said and swap your brake fluid for something with a higher boiling point. (I run Motul RBF660 in mine and have never had any fluid issues at the track.)

Just remember that smooth is fast and also much easier on brakes, tires, etc.

[natman316]

Originally Posted by DuaneC63

Your brakes will turn into mush after about 3-5 laps due to overheating. Your stock brake fluid will also boilover. Street tires won't last the day. All these componets will be pretty much be trashed by a day at the track. If you're serious about tracking at 100% car and driver ability, change rotors, pads, brake fluid and use DOT approved track tires. These are all DYI proceedures but can run into some money. Make sure you empty the car of anything thats not bolted down and take the spare/tools out of the trunk. Run a cool down lap before you exit the track and don't put your ebrake on. After a track day, flush all the fluids and change back your stock parts.

what would you reccomend for a novice driver? seems like your reccomendation is for someone who has the skill to push the car 100% to the limit. I've been on the track 3-4 times, so I definately do not believe i will get anywhere close to the limits.

Originally Posted by qship5

While I will agree that you can over drive the stock brakes, they are more than up to the task of a track day depending on the track you will be running, your driving style and ability. More aggressive pads will certainly resist fading longer, but they are not 100% necessary. Stock rotors, especially if it is a PP car, are up to track use even with more aggressive pads.

I would strongly suggest doing as DuaneC63 said and swap your brake fluid for something with a higher boiling point. (I run Motul RBF660 in mine and have never had any fluid issues at the track.)

Just remember that smooth is fast and also much easier on brakes, tires, etc.

the track I will be driving on is not a track with the most turns, but it does have a couple high speed straights, but over all a pretty quick course. Like i mentioned earlier, I dont think I will be anywhere near the limits of this car.

I will see about the brake fluid. In my other car, I ran ATE super blue and I didnt get any brake fade. I might give Motul a try

Thank you for your advice guys! Appreciate it.

[Jon2007E63P30]

The cars in the AMG Academy all use stock pads. Let's not use the student laps as an example. Let's use the continuous hot laps done by Tommy Kendall and the other instructors. Never a problem. The pro level classes in Europe, use stock.

However, they have very recent brake fluid changes. The stock MB fluid is very good, but use Motul if you are so inclined. The reason new brake fluid is key is the absorption of water over time.

I know how to use my brakes start at about 6:00 and wait for the pass around 7:45. Never a problem with brakes. However I did turn the calipers bronze.

You Tube

You Tube

[natman316]

Originally Posted by Jon2007E63P30

The cars in the AMG Academy all use stock pads. Let's not use the student laps as an example. Let's use the continuous hot laps done by Tommy Kendall and the other instructors. Never a problem. The pro level classes in Europe, use stock.

However, they have very recent brake fluid changes. The stock MB fluid is very good, but use Motul is you are so inclined. The reason new brake fluid is key is the absorption of water over time.

I know how to use my brakes start at about 6:00 and wait for the pass around 7:45. Never a problem with brakes. However I did turn the calipers bronze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq-km...e_gdata_player

thats why I asked about the brake fluid. my car is a 2012 and its only got 5500 miles on it so I dont know if it is necessary to change the brake fluid. It has been driven in the rain and parked outside for most of the time but its relatively new...so would the stock brake fluid have absorbed alot of water?

[Jon2007E63P30]

Originally Posted by natman316

thats why I asked about the brake fluid. my car is a 2012 and its only got 5500 miles on it so I dont know if it is necessary to change the brake fluid. It has been driven in the rain and parked outside for most of the time but its relatively new...so would the stock brake fluid have absorbed alot of water?

I think you should get your rear end on the track. The best thing you could do to get around the track faster is to hire an instructor who is familiar with the track. They will help you learn the best line, but more importantly, teach you how to think.

[DuaneC63]

Jon, Great vid of Laguna.

[DuaneC63]

Originally Posted by natman316

what would you reccomend for a novice driver? seems like your reccomendation is for someone who has the skill to push the car 100% to the limit. I've been on the track 3-4 times, so I definately do not believe i will get anywhere close to the limits.




the track I will be driving on is not a track with the most turns, but it does have a couple high speed straights, but over all a pretty quick course. Like i mentioned earlier, I dont think I will be anywhere near the limits of this car.

I will see about the brake fluid. In my other car, I ran ATE super blue and I didnt get any brake fade. I might give Motul a try

Thank you for your advice guys! Appreciate it.

Since you will not be driving near 100% your pads and rotors will be fine (although they will be fairly worn when your done). Street tires may be a better choice for a novice driver as they give you a lot more warning when they are going to break loose. Don't be surprised if the outer edges are worn off by the end of the day. (Novice drivers can actually be harder on brakes and tires as they tend to learn by over pushing the limits and use the brakes to bail them out of trouble.)

[Jon2007E63P30]

Yeah, street tires are fine. As you look for better stick for a good price, consider Hankook Rs-3.

Here is my Laguna write up A Day with TrackMasters At Laguna Seca

[qship5]

Originally Posted by Jon2007E63P30

The cars in the AMG Academy all use stock pads. Let's not use the student laps as an example. Let's use the continuous hot laps done by Tommy Kendall and the other instructors. Never a problem. The pro level classes in Europe, use stock.

However, they have very recent brake fluid changes. The stock MB fluid is very good, but use Motul is you are so inclined. The reason new brake fluid is key is the absorption of water over time.

I know how to use my brakes start at about 6:00 and wait for the pass around 7:45. Never a problem with brakes. However I did turn the calipers bronze.

The bronze/gold calipers are like a badge of honor... Just tell the person that buys your car they were a special order option.

[qship5]

Originally Posted by natman316

what would you reccomend for a novice driver? seems like your reccomendation is for someone who has the skill to push the car 100% to the limit. I've been on the track 3-4 times, so I definately do not believe i will get anywhere close to the limits.




the track I will be driving on is not a track with the most turns, but it does have a couple high speed straights, but over all a pretty quick course. Like i mentioned earlier, I dont think I will be anywhere near the limits of this car.

I will see about the brake fluid. In my other car, I ran ATE super blue and I didnt get any brake fade. I might give Motul a try

Thank you for your advice guys! Appreciate it.

ATE would work too, I used to run that and didn't have issues unless on a brake intensive course. I always like to flush with fresh fluid before a track day unless it's been less than a month since my last flush.

[cptdaz]

Originally Posted by Jon2007E63P30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq-km...e_gdata_player

Sick video sick track. I love Laguna Seca. I was only lucky to ride a lap back in 08 motogp.

[hyperion667]

love that turn that dips down jon........thanx for sharing

[Pit-Pony]

Using good brake fluid like Motul 600 is key.

If you are a bit mechanically inclined, at the track after a couple of sessions, bleed the brakes. The brake fluid overheats and starts to give a bit of fade. Bleeding the brakes will refresh the fluid in the calipers and provide good braking for the rest of the day.

You don't need any fancy tools either. Take off each wheel, open the brake bleeder screw and let the fluid drip into a pan, you only have to remove a couple of ounces from each caliper. Just remember to keep adding fluid to the master reservoir so you don't run it dry (that would be a problem).

Buy a spare set of brake pads to have with you. It is simple to change them out in case you wear them out. Get some practice changing a set at home before you head to the track.

It's just part of the game of tracking your car.

[Jon2007E63P30]

An extra set of pads is a good idea. you can see this thread for pictures of the caliper, and there are probably others.

You need:
latex gloves, it is dirty as can be
small hammer
some sort of drift pin to know out the retaining pins
12/13/14 socket for the bolt on the front calipers (sorry, can not remember exact size)
extra wear sensor (buy along with the new pads)
some way to suck brake fluid out of the reserviour if it over flows as you push back the pistons

[M3EvoBR]

I run Porsches for years... if you really into it, this is not the car, but just to have some fun bleed the brakes and go for SRF fluid. Motul is not really much better than stock.
I use SRF in my GT3RS and rarely bleed my brakes. Use race PFC pads, and mostly run Sebring, which is really really hard on the equipment.

Here are a few runs from last February. Running Toyo RA-1 tires, which are around 4 seconds slower than full Michelin slicks.
A few laps, first ones around 2:19 - 2:20
Just for reference 996 Cup (which are on the video) should run 2:12- 2:14 with a Pro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPPjbETw9xc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPPjbETw9xc

[Jon2007E63P30]

Oh come on. There is no real need for Castrol SRF. Yes, agreed, nothing compares, but nothing compares to the price either.

And the reason the Motul is not much better than OEM is because the OEM is so darn good. I just have never seen an MB on the track have any spongyness with new OEM fluid.

If you use SRF note Castrol recommends the fluid be changed after 18 months.

[late_bloomer]

Originally Posted by Jon2007E63P30

Yeah, street tires are fine. As you look for better stick for a good price, consider Hankook Rs-3.

Here is my Laguna write up A Day with TrackMasters At Laguna Seca

Awesome video of Laguna. Your instructor sounded helpful. Thanks for sharing and doing DIY write ups! Ppl like you make this forum great

Also, what fluids do you change after a day at the track like your video?
Just Oil change & transmission fluid ?

[gthal]

I am not the most experienced person on the forum with respect to tracking cars but I do have some very good experience with it in my M3s. In my opinion, as many have said, brake fluid is key. I know many say OEM on the C63 is very good and maybe it is but my experience is Motul 600/660 made a VERY noticeable improvement on the M3. Also, for the M3, better pads, made another VERY noticeable improvement.

Maybe the C63 OEM pads/fluid are better than the M3 (I doubt it though) but the car is heavier too. My first day out this year in the C63 is coming up and I plan to run OEM pads and Motul 600 fluid. Mainly to get a feel for the car on stock pads. If it performs, maybe I keep it as is. However, I have Endless pads, SS lines and Motul 660 fluid in the garage that I plan to install at some point. That will let me make a real comparison of the pads.

Given my experience with the M3, I cannot imagine that the C63 would not benefit from better pads/fluid. The difference in consistent brake feel and improved confidence was very significant on my M3. If the C63 doesn't have the same improvement from fluid/pads, then I will give MB serious kudos!!

[hhughes1]

Originally Posted by natman316

Hey guys, I am planning to take my c63 to a road course for the first time next week, I was wondering if I should change out the brake pads or/ and brake fluid before I run. Can the stock brakes take the track without fading too much? My car is relatively new, only 5000 miles on the clock.

are there anything else I should do to prep for the track? or is it good to go pretty much as is.

thanks.

You didn't mention which track you will be at. The climate, elevation changes and course design are all a big part of finding the correct answer to your questions. Typically a novice driver brakes very early and uses less than 50% of the stock capability. In a cooler climate area you may be fine as is however I would replace the fluid afterwards for sure and your pads will see a significant reduction in lifespan. If it will be a hot sunny day (Florida) everything changes radically. You should certainly upgrade the fluid, I use Motul RBF as well, and keep a close eye on brake feel as well as tire wear(look for cording). If the track has a fast straight that ends with hard braking into a corner, get into the habit of doing a left foot brake test before you reach the braking zone. These cars are designed very well for a track day introduction. If you get hooked, you can certainly upgrade components to match your skill level improvements. While it may not have the performance potential of the GT3RS, it is very competitive amongst other amatuers you will find at high performance driving events.

[M3EvoBR]

Originally Posted by Jon2007E63P30

Oh come on. There is no real need for Castrol SRF. Yes, agreed, nothing compares, but nothing compares to the price either.

And the reason the Motul is not much better than OEM is because the OEM is so darn good. I just have never seen an MB on the track have any spongyness with new OEM fluid.

If you use SRF note Castrol recommends the fluid be changed after 18 months.

79.00 a bottle is too much for having something that works ???
If so, this would be the wrong sport, as the costs of pads and tires will be at least 10 times that per weekend, for someone that tracks regularly
When I say don't need to bleed, I mean you don't need to bleed after every session. After 18 months, I'm well over 30 weekends at the track or 60 days.
That is roughly 300 miles per weekend and 9000 miles of track use at the 18 months period.
Usually I change every fluid in the car after 3 weekends.

[lunarx]

There was a lot of good advice here and everyone is right.
I am glad to know that the MB brake fluid is nearly as good as ATE Blue/Gold and RBF600 (if you compare boiling points).
Therefore, if you are going to bother changing fluid may as well go for SRF.
Although doing so will complicate your MB scheduled service as they might not be willing to put customer provided SRF in for you.

I will say that if you drive responsibly and don't over-brake or trail-brake you should be OK on stock pads and fluid, but don't get overconfident on them.
You will need to practice brake management on stock components.

If you have time, buy a new set of wheels and tires.
Or have a shop just swap your tires to RE11 or AD08.
There is no point to put that wear on your nice new street tires.
Unless you plan to burn thru them fast so you can put on better performing tires.

It's only like $80 labor to swap tires and protect an expensive set of stock rubber.
If you keep doing this, get a 2nd set of wheels to make future tire swaps easier.

[chief63]

You will toast the stock pads very very quickly and the drilled discs will most likely start to crack after 3 or 4 daily events unless it's very cold or raining. I am already up to my 4th set of discs and countless set of pads after only 2 years.

Testing the "Racing Brake" hardware this season, front discs will not be drilled, only slotted.

Also the mention that the C63 is not a race car is faulse if you do the right mods (like any car that is not a race only purpose). Was already at par with Porsche Gt3s last year, with an extra 100hp this year I should be very close to the Gt3 rs which is possibly the fastest you'll encounter. Not too bad for a car that I drive to the track with 2 baby seats!

good luck =)

[Pit-Pony]

A novice track driver should not have a problem with the brakes. Speeds will be comparatively low and braking will be early and ABS will never be experienced. I also assume sessions will be on the short side and limited to only 3 or 4 per day. I doubt that a novice will be encouraged to do much trail braking.

A nice cool down lap, staying totally off the brakes is important to perverse the brakes.

As for the drilled rotors, they too should not be a problem for a novice as the heat will not be anywhere near what an experienced driver will achieve.

Once the pedal gets a bit soft it will be time to cool things down and maybe consider a quick brake bleed.

I am assuming that the instructor will take care to make sure the car is always under control and no panic stops are initiated.