jtrichel

I am in the market for a new coupe. I have owned several Porsche 911s, from the 96-98 period primarily. An Audi RS6, Audi RS4, BMW E46 M3, others. I have been toying with buying a C63 AMG for awhile, and finally at a place financially and mentally to do it. I will admit that as a fan of Audi RS cars, the new RS5 is tugging at me a bit. But I think I will enjoy the usable torque in the C63 AMG.

So here is my question. With the Dev package, the coupe is within +/- 20 HP and LB Ft. torque of the Black Series. I know that there are a lot of other goodies on the Black Series that make it unique. But I am wondering if the car won't see track time (in this case, it won't), how much difference you are going to really feel on the street. With the only Black Series cars available for sale now in the $140-150k range (asking price) from my research, we are talking about a huge difference in price from a loaded coupe in the $80-85k range.

I did a search and didnt find this question evaluated, has it been? THANKS!!!!

gthal

If the car will see no track time, a BS is a waste and a show piece only. What makes the BS special, IMO, is how well sorted it is for the track compared to the regular C63. A BS that is never tracked is really just an expensive show piece. Get the regular coupe as it is more performance than you would ever need on the street and the difference in DD would not justify the price difference.

rory breaker

From a pure performance standpoint, if youre not tracking the car, get the P31. You will be paying a $50k+ premium for exclusivity and more head turns. Is the car worth it? Thats up to you. But to answer your question directly - if "having a black series" isnt that important to you, and the car will just see spirited street driving, I would stick with the p31 coupe and pocket the difference.

CELLryuu

+1

Guilty

What they said.

NellyRod

Get the coupe with development package. The Money you save can be used for headers, tune, or even a SC if you really want the HP and torque increase later down the road.

Some would say a BS that doesn't see track time is a waste of money. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I personally got my BS for the performance, but more for the styling differences and the exclusivity. I have no problem admitting that I have no intentions of tracking my car. Instead I will go to the AMG Academy this October, and abuse a $200k SLS AMG. At the end of the day, I will not have to replace pads, rotors, or tires.

gthal

In retrospect, I guess it does come down to money. If the extra money is irrelevant, then get whichever car you like better (clearly the BS ) even if the car won't be tracked. If the extra $$$ is relevant to someone, then I think how they intend to use the car is more relevant in the decision.

Pickles

This is an "interesting" thread.
The "Black Series" is special, VERY special, no doubt about it......and it's more than just performance......the BS has limited build qualities & a character & "pedigree" all of its own...which an "ordinary" C63 will never have.
If ya want something really special...REALLY special, & ya've got the dollars, then ya gotta go for the B.S.
But, if ya simply want something that goes fast, on the track, & off, then IMHO ya go for the "ordinary" C63, because, simply by reading this, & other, Forums, it is easy to comprehend that if it's simply speed, or any sort of performance/handling ya're after, you can obtain just as much "performance" of any description from an "ordinary" C63.....but ya won't have the "Pedigree".
Cheers, Pickles.

gthal

I don't disagree. Personally, I buy cars for a purpose that is performance based. I don't buy for pedigree, status, prestige, etc. Others are different. I have a friend who is a collector and buys cars that are rare and special. He doesn't even drive most of them. That is what interests him and he has the bucks to do it. Me, I have never understood that. Why have a high performance car that isn't driven to its capability? To me that's a waste and a bit sad. But, like I said, each of us is driven by a different agenda when spending our hard earned dollars so we each have to do what means the most to us.

There is no doubt the BS is more special, looks better and performs better. I, for one, would love to own one. But, for me, the most important piece in the purchase decision is the performance and if I wasn't going to be able to enjoy the cars full performance potential (i.e. at the track), I would personally opt for the base C63 which has 90% of the performance. The rarity, prestige and better looks wouldn't be worth the extra bucks for me personally by themselves. For others, it would matter more and that's OK too.

jtrichel

Thanks for all the replies.

I try to buy cars that have the performance but that also are exclusive, special. I do this for me, not for anyone else. I like to feel like I am driving something special. All of my 993s have been this way - ultra low mileage, rare "S" models, etc. Same with the RS6 and RS4 - you hardly ever saw another one.

I can "afford" the BS, but everything is relative. I have kids, expenses, plans, etc. that all could benefit from the extra $70k or so I will have to pay for a BS. In this case, the exclusivity is not worth that much to me IF the performance and experience can pretty much be matched with a Dev pkg C63 AMG. From this thread, I am taking away that it can....

rory breaker

You are correct, hit the nail on the head. Based upon reading that last post, do not get the BS.

jtrichel

Ok.

While I have your attention , a couple questions then

1- why is the coupe heavier than the sedan
2- with performance times identical, are there other performance/feel aspects to the coupe that make it more desireable?
3- is it a fairly common thing to quickly upgrade to 19 inch wheels/tires on these cars with wider/fatter rubber patch? the 18s look tiny to me on this car

Thanks!

rory breaker

1 - for clarity purposes, this has been debated over and over in terms of the actual weight difference that exists, if any, and if so which one is heavier. C&D says one thing, another outlet says another. The only thing I can tell you from experience is that pano roofs on the coupe are heavier, and that weight is at the worst possible place (the top of the car). Now, how big of a deal is that? Obviously not much, as the BS coupes in the US (NA?) do not let you sub out the pano roof.

2 - I didnt think so. I had an 09 sedan, and test drove the 2012 coupe, and frankly didnt like it as much. I felt it was too cramped inside and there was no discernible performance benefit in any category. Additionally, I didnt want to have to deal with folding seats forward in the event I had passengers, and for my dog, the sedan is much easier to get in and out of than the coupe. Overall, why would I want a 2dr car when I can get the exact same feel, performance, look, etc and have more room and 2 extra doors? I want a quick, fun, sedan. If I wanted a coupe in the same category, honestly...I would look to other cars.

3 - yes and yes, agreed. most common is folks getting the OEM 19's that are standard/optional (depending on country) everywhere except the US. From what I've seen, wheel gap/ride height is affected a bit, which has held me back from getting them as I dont want to lower the car. Others will have way more experience here than me though, people who have actually done this and compared live.

jtrichel

thanks!

justthebest

If the question "how does the C63 w/ Perf. Package compare to the C63BS" is asked, then the answer is clear: just get a C63. The BS' draw is exclusivity / track performance / distinctive styling / etc. and not just performance. Enjoy your C63!

Serge944

The BS is all about looks and exclusivity. It looks really good and you don't see them on the road very often. Only you can decide if the premium is worth it.

For a track car, I would look at other marques anyways.

jtrichel

Me too. I actually quite enjoy my little underpowered 3000lb 993 C2 on the track... a GT3 would be even better, but I digress. No, this car is for spirited street driving, and I would like something that will be fun and that I wont see at every stop light.

The pill that is hard to swallow on the BS is coming to the party a little late. If I could pay MSRP for a BS, I would cut the check today. However, finding it hard to pay a $40-50k premium over MSRP, which is what the few remaining are listed for. At that kind of premium, bringing the total to $140-150k (asking), there are many other exclusive cars I would buy. Congrats to those that acted quick enough and paid sticker (or less even) for their BS.

The picture of the black one on the truck looks so badass...those wheel arches make all the difference. I really do think the coupe looks a little like an Accord with the small 18s and no fender flares (no offense, please dont flame).

rory breaker

You're either not looking hard enough, or dont have the right people looking for you. There may or may not be a BS sitting in a showroom brand new right now ready to buy, but with a little patience, I guarantee you within the next 60 days one will pop up damn near new for less than MSRP. Never pay a premium for these cars unless you really dont mind way overspending for what you want.

However going back to the original q - and this is what many of us realized - if you spec out a BS the way you likely want it (if youre like me and many others) you're looking at $130k. Thats a $50k premium over a regular coupe. Not worth it.

justthebest

There is some fuzzy math happening here. My Black sticker'd at $130 (pretty much fully loaded), and while I had to pay a significant market adjustment, it didn't break $150.

jtrichel

I have spoken with several dealers over the last couple days, including today. Most of what I find (4-5 cars) stickered in the $110-115k range, basically adding wheels and performance media, sills, not much else (what else is there?) Those dealers are asking $30-40k over sticker...meaning $140-150s for what they have.

I understand and agree that if I want to wait until these start trading on eBay with 1k miles, etc. that is an option...

justthebest

Exterior CF, aerodynamics, track, AMG illuminated door sills, rear seat, perf. media, black wheels, matte paint.

jtrichel

Maybe you should be my consultant. I pay you a finder's fee for any BS with less than 1500 miles that you find at MSRP or less. Needs to have backseat. Ok? What's fair?

You say I am not looking hard enough (I think I am) or that I dont have the right people looking (you may be right about this because I have no one )

Even Money

I've only seen about 4 or 5 cars advertised on auto trader, cars.com, etc., and they are all asking over msrp about what you're saying. Even my dealer confirms this. I suspect you may have to wait a while to get one at or below msrp, even used.

gthal

#1 - pano roof might make the coupe a little heavier but debatable whether any real difference.

#2 - 2012 sedans/coupes are so similar they should have similar performance. Any difference would only be noticeable on the track, if at all. Compared to pre-2012 cars, 2012 cars also have suspension adjustments which improve handling and also the new MCT transmission which, by all accounts, is a faster and more responsive transmission. The 2012 version has been generally better received in car comparisons and reviews as the changes seem to have made the car a little more "behaved" at the limit compared to its main competition the M3. Having owned both, the C63 is much more fun

#3 - I have OEM 19s and put wider and stickier rubber on them. Almost everyone does. You can choose after market 19s or stick with the OEM 19s and upgrade the tires either way (although maybe slightly wider options after market but also with more fitment concerns so be sure to research that well before buying).

emericr

Patience, I agree with rory. Give it a few months and you will find BS cars for sticker price.
The BS is exclusive and looks more like a special/supercar whereas the standard C63 just blends in nicely.
I would not buy a BS for over MSRP, that is just wasting your hard earned dollars. Even at MSRP fully loaded, it is very close to a Vantage. I understand the Aston is slower but it is such a sexy car, very exclusive and "British".
Have you thought about an R8?
In a few months, the Viper will be on the market and for $110K it will be epic if it truly is what they say it is "interior wise"