C63 AMG/Black Series as a Daily Driver, Other Ramblings

[jtrichel]

I continue my search for a BS at MSRP. Can't help but notice that the cars with huge premiums out there arent selling, so maybe at some point the market will prevail for reasonableness. I have come close, but still no BS. This journey has prompted me to test drive a 2012 C63 PP and a 2012 E63 PP. In both cases, - oh - my - God - to the performance. Does make me start to wonder if the BS is worth the extra money. Still think it is to me if I can buy at MSRP. But here is my question - do you think the BS would make as good of a Daily Driver as the "regular" C63? I need back seats, but I dont need 4 doors necessarily. I dont spend hours in traffic with long commutes. Mainly less than 30 minute drives to office or airport or school pickup. Occasional 2-3 hr hour road trip. That's it. Coming from a Porsche 911, which I have sold. My desired BS would NOT have the track package. What has spooked me a bit is all the talk about rear tire wear. I dont get it. If you arent doing burnouts, why would they wear in 6k miles or less, as some are saying? On my 911 with 80% of the weight over the rear tires, I still get 12-15k miles out of them. Its not the money. Its the idea of the car needing to be on a lift every 6k miles for tires. Add to that the inconvenience of constant gas station stops, I just wonder about daily duty. This is what prompted me to drive the E63 biturbo w/PP. Just much larger car than I need, but the performance was incredible. The 590lbs of torque was very fulfilling! Probably no doubting it would be a more comfortable daily car, but I just feel too big, and clearly not as exciting. And obviously not as exclusive as a BS. Thanks for putting up with my ramblings. 99% sure I will be in an AMG soon, just not sure which based on a bit of fate and being informed as to what is best for me.

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[CoolBDPhenom03]

I just spoke to my body shop guy about this, this morning. He said that even if you get the backseat for the car, it's barely more than useless. He described it as a "guillotine" for the rear passenger's legs. Now, a C63 sedan can sit 2 adults in the rear comfortably...3 with a squeeze. The E63 is noticeably heavier than the C63 even with its extra power, we're talking over 4000lbs for the base model, plus being 7 inches longer.

[jtrichel]

Originally Posted by CoolBDPhenom03

I just spoke to my body shop guy about this, this morning. He said that even if you get the backseat for the car, it's barely more than useless. He described it as a "guillotine" for the rear passenger's legs. Now, a C63 sedan can sit 2 adults in the rear comfortably...3 with a squeeze. The E63 is noticeably heavier than the C63 even with its extra power, we're talking over 4000lbs for the base model, plus being 7 inches longer.

Right. But I will never put an adult in the back of whatever I buy. I only need to be able to fit my 7 yr old and 4 yr old boys, and perhaps the occasional star wars action figure. Baseball gear in the trunk, etc. Keep in mind, they are coming from the backseat of a 911. I have to believe this has as much or more room than the back of the 911. No doubt the sedans would be easier. Hence my questions. But I agree that the E63 just felt so big. I will say, however, that the dealer is making a sweet deal on the E63. When you factor in the discount, it gets within $20k of the C63. And $20k less than the BS.

BS - $110 ish for a base model MSRP if one turns up
C63 PP how I would equip it - $75-77k ish
E63 pp - pretty much loaded - $95k ish

Not going to make the decision on $20k one way or the other, want to make the right decision on the car.

[Fung63]

gthal who is a member here drives a C63 coupe and he puts his kid in the back with no problems

ultimately, if the majority of the time you are driving alone or with just a single passenger, you are fine. And the BS brings with it an extra bit of exclusivity over the normal C63.

tbh, you really cant go wrong with any of the cars you are thinking of but as you have said, the E63 feels a bit big for you... so put a timeline on how long you want to wait for a BS. Will there be one available in the future at MSRP or even below? of course, the longer you wait the higher the chance of that happening... but instead of spending your time reading the forums and negotiating with a dealer, pull the trigger on one and start enjoying a C63... be it the BS or reg

[rage2]

Alright, I'll try to answer everything in 1 shot.

My C63 Black Series is my daily driver. I drive my gf, and a 5 year old in the car daily. Booster seat is a permanent fixture in the back. With video in motion installed, there's full DVD entertainment for the kids. He loves the sound of the car, calls the car the "Angry Car". Refuses to ride in the 911TT because it doesn't sound as good, and whines a little when he's forced to ride in my gf's B200 Turbo. Definately a kid favorite!

The backseats are fine for adults. I go for lunch with my team daily, I throw the booster in the trunk, and we sit 4 people in the car with no issues. Every adult that has sat in the back is surprised at how much room there is. Last week, we had to sit a 6' 9" adult in the back because a pregnate woman had to sit in the front, no issues.

The rear seats on the C coupes are very deep, so the passenger doesn't need a whole lot of legroom. The only issue is the way the roof slopes, anyone over 6' tall will hit their head. To counter that, they sit their butt a little forward which gives them enough headroom, but need an extra inch or two of legroom. I have a freakish number of tall people on my team (several over 6') and it's never been an issue.

Comparing to a 911TT, my gf at 5'7" can't fit in the backseat, and the 5 year old barely fits back there with a booster seat as well. Carrying stuff? Forget about it. I can't take the kid skating in the 911TT... the amount of gear that we need to bring is impossible in the 911. Even going to the lake we take the BS, there's just not enough usable room in the 911 to stuff all our towels, beach toys, chairs, etc. It got to the point that nobody wants to drive or ride the 911TT after I got the CBS, and I sold it last week.

Now, the comparison with other AMG products. I'm a corners guy. I love carving corners when I'm on my own, back roads, back highways, highway turnoffs. The CBS is no comparison to the C63 AMG or the E63, both in grip level or fun factor. Comparing to a 911TT, on street tires, they offer about the same level of grip, but the CBS destroys the 911 for fun factor. The 911TT's are too easy to drive, no fuss going at the limit, where as the CBS you really need to know how to drive to explore 9-10/10ths around a bend.

Straight line, the E63 will kill the CBS. The C63 is pretty much equal (I owned a 2010 tuned C63 as well). If you're looking for straight line performance, you will probably be disappointed with the CBS. I'm not a straight line guy anymore, I sold my HPF M3 (a 750hp monster) for the CLK BS and didn't look back.

If comfort is important, the E63 is your answer. The CBS rides a little rougher than the standard C63 AMG, but it's perfectly acceptable. My gf hated my CLK BS, and confirmed that the CBS is much better than the CLK BS. In comparing the CBS to other cars, I'd say the ride quality sits somewhere between the 996TT and the 997TT.

A friend of mine traded in his 911TT Cab for a C63 BS after we drove around in my CBS for the afternoon. He's loving the CBS right now.

Let me know if you have any other questions, be more than happy to answer 'em.

[norb]

The rears go fast because they are woefully undersized for the torque that the C63 generates. Even when you don't want to do a burn out, you do a burn out. The E63TT is probably a better car for you but the C63 is a sportier feeling car and better sounding too!

[rage2]

Missed the tire wear part. If you're worried about tire wear, don't expect a lot of life with the track package on the CBS. The Dunlop Sport Maxx Race's are a R compound tire, and I ate up my first set in 3200km's of mostly street driving (1 AutoX). They're also terrible in the rain, especially past 50% wear. Aquaplaning is a problem > 160km/h when they're new, and >80km/h when they're worn to the last bit of tread depth.

I'm running Michelin Pilot Super Sports on the CBS now, and after 1000km's, I'm very happy with them. They offer the same grip as the Dunlops on the street, but with a little bit less bite on turn-in. For under 1/2 the price of the Dunlops, it's an awesome street tire.

I wrote a comparo review between the 2 tires on street and track on the PL if you're on there...

I'll have more info on tire wear of the CBS and the PSS's once I get more km's on there.

On my 2010 C63, I was eating P Zeros at a set every 6000-8000km's. I was told it's rear toe that kills it, and some guys were able to sacrafice high speed stability but double the tire life by toeing the rear out a little.

[Carac]

Unless you plan on attending a couple of track days a year and having a set of track tires in addition to street then you're wasting your money on getting a Black Series over a C63 PP as a daily driver. You'll won't notice an extra 30hp

99% of the time, but you will appreciate the extra $30-40k in your pocket.



For what it's worth, I went from a C63 to a CLK63 Black Series. In hindsight, the C63 would have been fine for what I did with it, but I got a great deal on a CPO CLK63 Black where it ended up costing the same as a fully loaded C63.

[jtrichel]

Great perspectives. Please keep them coming. Fung, I have only been looking a couple weeks. I sold my 911 this past weekend. So dont worry, not paralyzing myself on the forums, but I am educating. And I am not going to pay over MSRP for a car this is already going to drop a ton of value immediately. It's less a money thing and more a sanity thing :-) I can be patient.

Rage2, EXTREMELY helpful review. The suspension setup and tire wear were the two things giving me pause on daily driver.

Re: tires, its less that I am "worried" about tire wear, as just amazed by it. And feels like it will be a little annoying with a street car to have to replace tires every 6 months or so.

I dont think anyone NEEDS a BS. But I think the exclusivity factor beyond a "regular" C63 is worth it if I can find one. I do believe the E63 is probably just a bit too much luxury and size for me, even though incredbly capable.

So comes back down to BS vs. C63 as a daily driver. And the hunt continues. Thanks and keep the thoughts coming!

[Vic55]

You can use the CBS as a daily driver. I dont but....

Its comfortable enough with the adjustable suspension to be enjoyed daily if your roads are good. I choose not to drive it daily because I dont want to pour on a ton of miles and I have other rides that need my love

As for tire wear, they will wear no different than any other AMG or non track CBS. Your pcar didnt wear tires because it doesnt have torque. The weight bias in the rear plays a much smaller role. TQ burns tires and if you drive the car right you will wear out any tire. The CBS is no different but one should expect that a max performance summer tire with a 457 tq rating car will lower its tread life. Oh and if you drive the CBS correctly you should wear out the tires by then. Whats the purpose of getting a CBS if you dont drive the crap out of it. Im not saying burnouts and such but push the car- its a race car. If tire wear is concern any tq monster willl be an issue.

The E63TT with PP should be slightly faster in the straights but its a heavier car and I firmly believe the ECU and TCU in the TT is not optimal or as aggressive as the CBS's one. My butt feeling tells me that my CBS is relatively close to the TT (My E63TT wagon or CLS63TT) in stock format. Now a simple tune and the TT is gone but.... in no way or form does the TT compare to the driving experience Ive extracted from the CBS. Add in some turns and the CBS says goodnight.

Also we often forget appearance. The CBS is menacing- the TT is reserved.

I wont even discuss sound- its non comparo here. I got rid of faster car for a better car and wont ever look back (wagon for CBS).

If you are going to wait for the price to drop, you will have to wait longer that it seems you want to. If money isnt the issue get the car now while its new and break it in your way. I dont mind buying a car for more and then passing it on to others later. The price I pay far outweighs the waiting game.

[rage2]

Buy a ticket from Austin to Calgary, it's 5 hours to get here, $600 round trip (I used to travel to Austin frequently for work when we had an office there). I'll take a day off work and we'll go rip around some back highways in my BS and a C63. I'm always looking for an excuse to go driving!

Easy way to choose between the 2 cars.

[jtrichel]

Originally Posted by rage2

Buy a ticket from Austin to Calgary, it's 5 hours to get here, $600 round trip (I used to travel to Austin frequently for work when we had an office there). I'll take a day off work and we'll go rip around some back highways in my BS and a C63. I'm always looking for an excuse to go driving!

Easy way to choose between the 2 cars.

Very generous. Thanks! I sent you a PM.

The big news in Austin these days is Formula 1. I bought seat licenses for the family, so for better or worse, I am in! There has been a lot of back and forth, but I am optimistic about the future of the track here.

[izzyAMG]

Recently on our long sequoia park trip with our c63 with long sharp winding roads and off roads to boot due to construction plus high temps and high elevations. I was imagining how I had a c63 BS instead, thinking that I could never take a car that expensive to conditions such as we experience. Not because it can't do so but it's just too nice of a car to take in those conditions. But with our c63 sedan it was the best of both worlds fun and convenience without feeling the guilt. I think it all comes don to how you see such a car in real life.

[jtrichel]

Vic55, thanks for taking the time. A lot of what you said makes sense. But not ready to throw in the towel on finding a BS at MSRP after only 10 days :-) I am impatient, but not that impatient. I started this thread to hear from people that own the BS and/or C63 sedan as to the daily drivability of it. Thought it might bump me over the hump one way or another. I have driven the C63. Harder to drive a BS. So have to go a bit off internet feedback. Dont like to do that, but in this case... Assuming I can put the BS in Comfort setting and drive like that when I want, without losing fillings from my teeth, or spiraling off the road with the kids in the back during a rain, then I really think that is what I want.

In Porsche talk, in case it helps. I find the 997 tt and 997 S fine as daily drivers. Although Porsche marketed it as such, I did NOT find the 997 GT3 something I could have driven daily. To a hardcore track guy, that car may have seemed soft, but I thought it was a bit too much in the suspension department as a daily driver.

[Snipe656]

If you still have worries about the backseat room then why not just go look at any new C class coupe to get a decent enough feel for the room? Sedan and coupe I have been told are built on the same chasis and the way the coupe does the rear seats I do not see how they could be an issue for kids. Only complaint I have seen for the rear seat on any C class coupe mimmics what a previous person in the thread said in regards to height of the rear passengers due to the sloping roof.

As far as tire wear and torque, if you are going to enjoy the car and I do not even mean burnouts or anything radical then it will eat the tires. Heck my wife's little diesel beater BMW with it's current tune makes more torque than the BS and probably much sooner in the rpm band and tires last fine for her. However if I am driving my wifes car a lot, the tires just don't last and those are not super sticky tires that we put on her car nor am I driving it like I stole it but I definitely enjoy the surges of torque at all sorts of speeds.

BTW I recently had a MBZ dealer down here in Houston say they have a BS coming in a few months. No telling what they want for it since not in the market for one but if you are interested then shoot me a PM and I will give you the guys name/contact information.

[brt3]

I've owned several AMGs in the past: E55 wagon, ML63, C63 w/P31, and now the C63 Black Series. I've also driven almost everything AMG makes in Europe, for extended periods.

When I picked up my Black Series, I was initially surprised by the compliance of the ride. California freeways are terrible, but -- at normal highway speeds with the factory suspension settings -- the ride is not as bad as I expected. It absorbs sharp bumps fairly well while at speed.

However, a few things to note:

1. The car drives "big". It feels wide and much bigger than my 2011 C63 Sedan.

2. The ride quality on slower or "back" roads is harsher. At speed you don't notice this as much.

3. The car definitely has a slightly more nervous quality -- it's begging to be accelerated and turned.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend the C63 BS as a daily driver, unless it will also see some track time or other form of performance driving. One of the best cars I've every driven -- in terms of having one car that can do it all -- is the E63 wagon. I've also been surprised by how well the CLS performs on the track.

[norb]

JT, my advice for you is to get a BS, no matter what. Its what got you interested in the C63 so if you "settle" for a regular one, you'll just second guess yourself and be dissatisfied with it. Go for it!

[Faraz]

Depends what roads are like, I would have kept my sedan as well, since I didnt think the coupe bs was suitable as a DD. I drive it now and then, and I drive it like I am holding an infant out in front hanging from the grill. You have to be VERY careful, it sits very low. There is 0 room for error.

On a regular one, more clearance, nice nappa leather. Parktronic etc. with 2013, mbrace2.....

Just my 2cents on a daily.

but, when you get on a smooth highway, the BS is the king. Period.

I hope they sell for over MSRP..... and they prob will.... in time.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Fung63

gthal who is a member here drives a C63 coupe and he puts his kid in the back with no problems

ultimately, if the majority of the time you are driving alone or with just a single passenger, you are fine. And the BS brings with it an extra bit of exclusivity over the normal C63.

tbh, you really cant go wrong with any of the cars you are thinking of but as you have said, the E63 feels a bit big for you... so put a timeline on how long you want to wait for a BS. Will there be one available in the future at MSRP or even below? of course, the longer you wait the higher the chance of that happening... but instead of spending your time reading the forums and negotiating with a dealer, pull the trigger on one and start enjoying a C63... be it the BS or reg

Yep... two kids no issues. My daughter is 11 and fits behind me in the drivers seat without problem (I'm 5'11"). My 3 year old in a car seat works well too. I have sat in the back with my wife driving just to see and it was fine for me. I wouldn't want to be there for a 2 hour drive but for a 20 or 30 minute drive it is fine for anyone in the back under 6' tall.

I would pick a C for fun or an E for comfort. For me, I'm too young for an E at the moment (I'm only 40 )... maybe when I'm 65.

The C63 is a great DD and the most fun of any car I have owned. The C63 BS would be no worse in my opinion but just a tad more amazing. Plus it is much more aggressive looking. On gas/tires... come on, you are going to buy a $120,000 car and are worried about $2,500 in tires once or twice a year I pretty much guarantee that the minute you spend a week in either car, tires will be the last thing you worry about. The only thing that will occupy your mind is where the next highway on ramp or off ramp is

[nkc]

gthal young indeed,lol

[jtrichel]

For the last time, I am not worried about the money on tires

Just seems like a disappointing inconvenience to have deal with... but such is my ignorance from not having a high torque v8 heavy vehicle I suppose...!

thanks again for all advice

gthal, I just turned 40 too!

[a430v]

Shameless plus - BS all the way. Hope to hear from you soon J.

[mainly]

totally man go for the black series. the new 5.5 TT engines are dull, unresponsive and the way in which they accelerate is just plain boring compared to a N/A engine. a us CBS turned up where I live and it sold instantly . I inquired about it it I didn't even have a chance. there are 5 or 6 cls63 TT 's for sale here in Canada and there not selling.

why do you think that is?

because turbos are gay. forget them man.

go for the C63 black series.

[LangeOne]

My BS will be a DD (it has been for the last 3+months). I find the ride quite comfortable for long drives to nowhere in particular (actually, to my backside, it is a bit less harsh than the 4S with PASM). Even my passenger (I can only fit one because the rear of my car is covered with nice black carpet where 2 seats should've been) will often comment about the ride quality.

However, as another poster has stated, it does have quite a greedy turning radius. If you live in an area with older and narrower roads and driveways, you should be aware of this.

Finally, if you like your DD to blend in with traffic and hate kids, young and old men and an occasional woman wave at your car, take pictures and give you thumps up, DO NOT GET THIS CAR!!

[Merc63]

You love carving corners so much, why don't you come up for some lapping at the Edmonton Indy track, beginning of August. Lets see what that BS has.

Originally Posted by rage2

Alright, I'll try to answer everything in 1 shot.

My C63 Black Series is my daily driver. I drive my gf, and a 5 year old in the car daily. Booster seat is a permanent fixture in the back. With video in motion installed, there's full DVD entertainment for the kids. He loves the sound of the car, calls the car the "Angry Car". Refuses to ride in the 911TT because it doesn't sound as good, and whines a little when he's forced to ride in my gf's B200 Turbo. Definately a kid favorite!

The backseats are fine for adults. I go for lunch with my team daily, I throw the booster in the trunk, and we sit 4 people in the car with no issues. Every adult that has sat in the back is surprised at how much room there is. Last week, we had to sit a 6' 9" adult in the back because a pregnate woman had to sit in the front, no issues.

The rear seats on the C coupes are very deep, so the passenger doesn't need a whole lot of legroom. The only issue is the way the roof slopes, anyone over 6' tall will hit their head. To counter that, they sit their butt a little forward which gives them enough headroom, but need an extra inch or two of legroom. I have a freakish number of tall people on my team (several over 6') and it's never been an issue.

Comparing to a 911TT, my gf at 5'7" can't fit in the backseat, and the 5 year old barely fits back there with a booster seat as well. Carrying stuff? Forget about it. I can't take the kid skating in the 911TT... the amount of gear that we need to bring is impossible in the 911. Even going to the lake we take the BS, there's just not enough usable room in the 911 to stuff all our towels, beach toys, chairs, etc. It got to the point that nobody wants to drive or ride the 911TT after I got the CBS, and I sold it last week.

Now, the comparison with other AMG products. I'm a corners guy. I love carving corners when I'm on my own, back roads, back highways, highway turnoffs. The CBS is no comparison to the C63 AMG or the E63, both in grip level or fun factor. Comparing to a 911TT, on street tires, they offer about the same level of grip, but the CBS destroys the 911 for fun factor. The 911TT's are too easy to drive, no fuss going at the limit, where as the CBS you really need to know how to drive to explore 9-10/10ths around a bend.

Straight line, the E63 will kill the CBS. The C63 is pretty much equal (I owned a 2010 tuned C63 as well). If you're looking for straight line performance, you will probably be disappointed with the CBS. I'm not a straight line guy anymore, I sold my HPF M3 (a 750hp monster) for the CLK BS and didn't look back.

If comfort is important, the E63 is your answer. The CBS rides a little rougher than the standard C63 AMG, but it's perfectly acceptable. My gf hated my CLK BS, and confirmed that the CBS is much better than the CLK BS. In comparing the CBS to other cars, I'd say the ride quality sits somewhere between the 996TT and the 997TT.

A friend of mine traded in his 911TT Cab for a C63 BS after we drove around in my CBS for the afternoon. He's loving the CBS right now.

Let me know if you have any other questions, be more than happy to answer 'em.