IAA-C63

Branching off from another thread, I'm considering replacing my '11 C63 with an M3 convertible (current generation, with DCT). Another possibility is to replace it with an M3 coupe (also current generation, either DCT or manual). A more decadent option is to keep the C63 (at least for another year) while adding an M3 (convertible would make more sense, in that case).

The goal with the convertible would be to get a convertible that works for the family (ie, real back seat) and my wife enjoys, and that I would also enjoy. I'd also want to track it occasionally, but I have some safety concerns about tracking a convertible (even with a hard top). The wife can drive manual, but would prefer DCT in a convertible.

The goal with the coupe would be a straight replacement of the C63, getting a car which should offer similar fun on the road while performing better on the track. The DCT is really good, but manual would also be a nice change of pace compared to the C63.

Of course, the C63 appeals because of the torque, sounds, solidness, etc. IMO, a quintessential German muscle car.

I'd appreciate opinions from people who have experience in driving these cars (not just reading reviews), ideally including driving them on the track. I've done several test drives, and will do more today, but I just can't make up mind, and my wife is one the fence too.

Dreamwagon

I owned multiple M3s (E36, E46, E90 and E92) prior to buying my C63 coupe and tracked them all. If you want to track the M3, then forget the convertible. The E92 with DCT was a spectacular track and street car. Much better on the track than the C63, but the MB torque is amazing especially on the street

With the exception of my E92 all the M3s were stick and I was reluctant to go with a DCT, however, once there I would never go back. That being said, unfotunately MBs MCT is a far cry from BMWs DCT which is leaps and bound better. Much smoother shifts, beautiful downshift throttle blips, and adjustable for slower or faster shifts

If you want to track it, then go with a DCT coupe!

And have lots of fun!

gthal

I owned 2 E92 M3 coupes... one 6MT and one DCT before the C63.

Here is my short summary of the two...

C63...

- Sounds better and meaner
- More torque around town
- Few cars can compete in stop light to stop light races (I'm not into that but some are)
- Handling is comparable to the M3 around town (2012 C63 coupe)
- MCT is nice (better than on the pre-2012 cars) but still no where near as good as DCT
- Decent track car but isn't suitable as such given overheating issues, etc... some will not agree here but that's my opinion
- Horrible head room compared to the M3 with a helmet on (I'm 5'11").

M3

- DCT is simply outstanding and gearing results in good torque to the wheels.
- Engine is simply outstanding at the track... smooth and revs FOREVER
- The E92 M3 is completely track ready out of the box with a simple brake pad/fluid swap.
- Feels a little lighter and more nimble when pushed really hard
- No overheating... does what is intended at the track
- The M3 has a certain "feel" and connection to the road/car when driving that the C63 doesn't quite match... this is subjective

Overall I think the C63 is a more fun around town and the M3 is simply better suited for the track. With modifications, either car can be made to equal the other in most respects where they may not today. If I wanted a car to have fun with in town, it would be the C63. If I wanted a car that was still fun around town but track ready out of the box, it would be the E92 M3... NOT the convertible. If you go convertible, it would be street only IMO as the C63 (any version) would be better at the track than the M3 convertible if you address the heating issues with an after market oil cooler or if you live in a milder climate.

Given what I now know about heating issues, head room in the car with a helmet, and a slight edge in toss-ability and handling, if I had only one car and wanted to track it fairly regularly and drive it every day too it would be the E92 M3 with DCT without a doubt. It is the better option in that regard for blended use. If I wanted a fast, fun, great sounding car for driving on the street it would be the C63. If I wanted a convertible to cruise around town in, the E93 M3 works but I would also consider other convertible options Based on what you describe your needs are and if you are replacing your C63, then I would pick the E92 M3 with DCT (over the 6MT as it gives the car more usable torque to the wheels with better gearing).

P.S. You list a Cayman R as one of your cars... it would be better at the track than either the M3 or C63... why not just track that car and keep the C63 for the street?

m3equals333

Keep the c63 for daily driving and buy a supercharged e46 for the track.

CBS

Excellent assessment! +1

IAA-C63

Excellent comments, thanks. Based on my test drives, I agree.

I had a 911S cab which I loved, but I didn't want to track a cab and my local driving is limited, so the 911 was way underutilized and I replaced it with Cayenne GTS. Still sad about letting the 911 go, so looking for a DD which is fun on the road and can also be tracked to complement the Cayman R.

One possibility would be an older 911 coupe, but a C63 or M3 would be more practical.

I tracked the C63 at the AMG Driving Academy and definitely saw the overheating issues. Plus the shifting with the '11 is slow, especially for track use. But I do love it on the road.

The E92 M3 coupe would probably be almost as much fun as the C63 on the road, and I don't doubt that it would be better on the track. I generally like manual, but with the M3's need for revs, DCT probably makes more sense, especially since the Cayman is manual.

The M3 convertible would be a compromise. I drove it again today, and almost as much fun as the C63 on the road, but I still have reservations about tracking it, so it wouldn't quite meet the need for a second alternative track car. Plus, driving it would always make me wonder what I'm missing relative to the coupe (which is over 400 lbs less).

I'm also on the lookout for a 911 (997) GT3 or GT3RS. Prices are high right now, but if they drop that could replace the Cayman and cover the need for a fun DD, allowing some consolidation of cars. In other words, best scenario is M3 convertible, Cayenne GTS, and 911 GT3RS. Maybe we should grab the M3 convertible ...

IAA-C63

Conclusion I came to on this is that I'm not giving up the C63. Did a lot of spirited driving with it, with several back to back drives against the M3 coupe and convertible, and I think the C63 is the funner/better car on the road. The C63 rocks. And there's no substitute for torque!

May add a used M3 convertible if the wife really wants one, or a used M3 coupe for track use.

DiscoZ

I mostly agree with gthal, but that is not why I posted. Just my 2 cents:

- The C63 is far superior to the M3 on the street given torque, lower power band and better sound. You do feel like a king driving around as it wil decimate most cars on the street. However, my M3 had an adjustable suspension which in comfort mode was better on Toronto's crappy roads than the 2012 C63's suspension (it is tweaked).

- The street steering feel of the C63 is better than the overboosted M3 steering. However, my M3 was a 2008 and it rode better and creaked and groaned less than my 2012 C63. C63 has a better turning radius.

- The C63 really, really needs wider tires. Its brakes outperform my M3's brakes on the track in my opinion (take longer to fade, braking performance is about the same). I will be testing my new R-Comps on the track this season and look forward to it.

- The M3 is more connected on the track, however not necessarily more fun. I will admit it feels lighter and more tossable. That being said, I know I was faster on Mosport than with my M3 - however that is a HP track.

- The cooling on the C63 is a huge issue. While I only got kicked down to S+ once on the track, the idea of it annoys me tremendously and had I known about this before I got the 2012 (2012 coupes are apparently the worst), I would likely not have purchased it and got a RS5 instead. I've stopped using the AMG screen as I keep watching the oil temps and it annoys me. Hopefully a new oil cooler and vented hood this year (in mod budget) will help.

- On the note above, I got my car reflashed with the new high tolerance tune and the dealership screwed it up and it's temp is now all wonky. On Monday it is being flashed back and they will check with AMG and get back to me on the new tune that has higher tolerances (and IMO is a mickey mouse way to address a problem - if that is all it took, why does the Black Series have so much better cooling).

I am contemplating a dedicated track car and would have pulled the trigger however I do not have parking space right now.

Hope this helps.

DiscoZ

FYI - I would take a E46 M3 or E86 Z4MC over a E92 M3 at the track any day of the week.

callmiro

The M3 is a step down from the C63 as a daily driver

I had both, at the same time and always drove C63

Just my 2 cents plus tax

htoudiee

IMO, having owned the M3 E92 DCT, the M3's brakes for real track use are not up for the task.