Vic55

As the title says--- our good friends at EAS, local Orange County BMW tuner, parts, and mod specialist dyno'd a few of my cars and member VDubpower's car. EAS is getting into the Benz market soon so you will have yet another option. As a BMW owner (5 M's) they are my "go to" down here in So Cal.

All three cars were done on different days but the conditions were relatively similar. Tom, co owner, was kind enough to do an overlay of the 3 cars for perspective. Keep in mind that the cars being done on different days will yield different results but arguably they wont differ too much.

I thought it would be cool to see where the sweet spots are on each car vs each other. I have had 2 M157 PP engines so I know what they are capable of but with all due respect stock vs stock my M5 beats the CLS and E63TT's that I had. My Black is lower on the power list but weighs less and that makes up the gap.

The cars:

2013 F10 m5
2012 C63 Black Series
2012 E63TT with the PP

All cars are stock.

This first dyno sheet shows the power with mph vs rpm's. Check out the Black's power (hp) curve vs the M5--- similar in shape just lower on the spectrum. Ill have an RPM overlay done soon. Thanks again to Tom and team at EAS (European Auto Source). These are all SAE corrected numbers.




Here is the same overlay with RPM's

JamE55

You didn't include the 997?

On that note. How would you compare the 997 vs the F10? I know two completely different animal and also stock vs mod but would you say the 997 is still king in acceleration?

Great dyno comparison!

b16

Probably a 2wd dyno.

Thanks for sharing! That M5 looks like a monster!

Vic55

Exactly----


Cant disconnect the front drive train like we could on my 997.1TT or 966TT on 2wd dynos.

Mort

Nice comparo! Looks like MB is really controlling the output of the TT above 5250RPM as the torque curve is very strong.

The M5 is certainly strong in the top end.

Thanks for getting the cars on the dyno and for sharing the results.

350driver

Great Data Vic. That M5 is a monster and I am sure has huge tuning potential. I look forward to see where you take her.

Jons95c36amg

So the 560hp crank for the M5 is way underrated.

Ezec63

Hmm that's looks very much like a non PP pull for the E63 especially with that torque drop off uptop I thought PP's pull 510 +\- whp .. The m157 does seem to be more powerful uncorked .. How would you think the BS Would fair in a race with the E63 stock vs stock?

CBS

I'm impressed by how sharp the M5's torque curve is at the start compared to the CBS.

Vic55

absolutely a PP car--- the owner is a member here. Im sure there are higher and lower reading dynos... for the sake of this post I wanted to show what the numbers were on the same dyno albeit different days.

The E63 would pull the CBS up top... down low it would be close up to about 100 IMHO. The CBS has the weight advantage and having owned 2 M157's its more difficult to launch with the factor lsd that only has a 30% lockup versus the CBS's 60%. The M5 has an active diff so the lockup varies based on conditions- this is a great btw.

Here is vdubpowers car at the very dyno:



BMW definitely went a different route with the S63TU engine... I love that its so responsive down low. Add in the DCT benefits and the car is fantastic but also a big pig at almost 4300 lbs.

vdubpower

gonna be adding the w126 500sel to that graph thursday morning.....might see a new champ

csexty3

So the new M5 is putting most 540whp stock?

Dads C63

Great post and I love the side by side comparisons!!
I think you might be a good one to ask a couple of questions.

I have been strongly pondering moving to the newer platforms with the 5.5TT, (new)4.0TT, or something with two extra cylinders.
I wonder how a C63 like mine with heads, cams, and headers will compare on the road due to the weight and tranny differences?? I only have 520rwhp (N/A) so I'm a little short of what the M5 has. I wonder if the weight differential will allow me to stay with this group? I weigh in at about 3700# in street form now without driver.

You've driven them all, what do you think?

Vic55

I think as much as dyno numbers are fun to look at; the street tells the most and your car might have 520 peak hp on a certain dyno but probably has a better curve thru the sweet spot areas. I know you would be better than the CBS just based on your mods alone- no brainer. Your weight would be the benefit against the big M5 pig off the line and then up top if there was enough room the DCT with its minimal drive train loss and the HP at higher revs would allow the M5 to come back to life (well past 100 though since you would pull out earlier). But that all depends on the real estate in front of you; street races would fit for you all day. The race against the E63TTPP stock would be closer since I have seen stock vs stock E63TTPP vs M5 races and the M5 pulls about 2 cars up to 160 (recent airstrip races here in Cali) but you would still crush both cars no doubt. If you are trapping 129 in the quarter Im not sure if there is even a question who would win---- I guess it depends on what type of race we are talking about LOL---

Ill tell you this- I havent driven my CBS in a few weeks and have driven it 3 days in a row this week and Id much rather lose in this car than have most faster cars out there (I said most). The car is just inspiring and fawking fun.

The thing about TT motors is they are so stupid easy to mod. I did tunes on both my M157's and the cars were completely different animals and it would not be unlikely to see 126mph trap speeds in those modded cars at the strip. So now I wait for the tune on the M5 which should be out this month or early next (OBDII) and then that car with its smaller displacement (vs the M157) but bigger turbos will be a monster. And then there are downpipes, intake, etc and these cars are in the 130's.

Dads C63

Vic,
Thanks for your honest input.
If I were to move into another platform what would you suggest?? I actually like all the cars in your stable including the Porsche and GT-R so recommend away.

What about the new E63 5.5TT with some new down pipes, exhaust, tune etc.....? or do you recommend the CLS?

Vic55

Pick your poison in cars --- or fun I guess. I made some mods to my post above--- I forgot you trap 129mph LOL.....

The 997.2TT has a tune and exhaust its faster than a stock turbo S- and out of the gate is just stupid--- mid 2's zero to 60 but the AWD system in the turbo even with the PDK robs its power up top and you can feel it get slugish past 160 mph (Im able to get to these speeds daily where I live in Mexico). But its the best stop light racer I have right now and passing from 60 to 120 is incredible in this car. Its also a 150k car so its overpriced.

I think if you want luxury, speed, and power and a drag strip king you go with the E63TT and do the mods to get you over 130mph in the traps. It is a basic looking car to me- the W212 is so not "look at me" vs the likes of the GTR or the CBS. If you want to add in a little panache then the CLS is a great car- sexy as all hell and you can get it almost as fast as an E (weight).

If cost is an issue the E is the best bang for the buck along with the GTR but the GTR is just not a daily driver for me.

But like above I love the CBS and its freaking stock!!! Im sure if you got a hold of CBS you would mod it and make faster than an SLS.

Dads C63

You are KILLING ME!!!
I think that based on what you are saying my best option is to keep my modded C63 and use it as a track/car show car. Then look for something more refined(streetable) like the 997.2TT or the E63 to drive daily and play with.

Vic55

2 good cars are always better than one

PetroC63

Keith,

How about a CTS-V? It's not a Benz but it's easily modded and much cheaper to mod too.

Intake, tune and upper pulley puts you about 530 to 550rwhp in an auto and 550 to 570rwhp with a manual.

Add a lower pulley, cam, heat exchanger and retune and your pushing 650whp.

Many good tuners down in Florida too.

emericr

Thanks for the info Vic.
This proves that the M5 hp is way underrated. It looks like at least 610 crank power which explains your statement that a stock M5 beats a E/CLS63PP.
MB probably knew this and that is the reason why they have upped the power of the redesigned base E63 and PP.
I can't wait to see what a tune on the M5 can do.
Aren't we living in a great decade or what? Manufacturers are producing 4 door sedans with the performance of supercars of the 80s. And since we live in the US, it is not reserved for the super elite .

radride

The BMW's had more HP but the Benz's are torque monsters. That's what gives you that rush of power and throws you in the seat. Not taking anything away from the BMW but a perfect example is an NSX. It has decent HP and quick but the torque sucks and they are boring to drive. That's why an old 5.0 L mustang felt so quick and powerful due to the torque.

Either way a great comparison OP.

R.K.

Ezec63

Wasnt trying to accuse you of any trickery sorry if it came off that way was just thinking out loud

Hmmm you need to throw on a good pair of headers on that c63BS with a tune and see how she runs against these cars hehe would love to see how you compare the m5 with your new tune vs your 2 tuned m157's. I didnt know that the m5 had bigger turbos that could make it interesting the boost now adays has made the statement no replacement for displacement obsolete !
But just thinking out loud here i think ive seen tune only renntech m157's push ~600whp and ~700Wtq. Its obvious the m157 makes its power by big torque and the s63tu wouldnt touch the torque number tuned but then bmw brings in the bigger turbos trick cross manifold and higher rev limiter so that 600whp isnt impossible. SICK collection of cars btw

Pickles

G'day Vic, from "Downunder".
Thanks for a GREAT thread with some easy to see, factual, interesting,& easy to understand, information.
Thanks, Pickles.

Vic55

Oh I know you werent- but I wanted to post the car just in case anyone really didnt think it was

I agree with you; headers on the M156 CBS would change things- I just dont feel the need to adjust this car ... yet. But Id love to see those numbers and results on the street no doubt

My tune only M157's were around 560 hp but on a super low reader dyno dynamics. Im not sure about the Renntech ones but Xtyper (member here) was around 580 hp on a local dyno (non dyno dynamics) without race gas I think. They are great cars but I like to think some other things do come into play most noteworthy is that DCT tranny. Its so good at getting the power to the street and the speed of shifts is incredible. Of course other items like weight, gearing, COed, etc also create advantages and disadvantages.

I appreciate the post.

C63fan

Thanks for kind sharing & precious comparison! I love all cars in your stable!