m3equals333

Is it true that besides less traction control, sport mode provides more torque? I heard someone mention it in a thread a while ago and was curious. Also, not sure if it was because the car was more warmed up when I was in Sport Mode vs when I was in non-Sport Mode, but I could have sworn it had smoother/better down-shifting in Sport Mode (when in M)...

SaphGreyC63

As far as I know, thats a negative.

The traction control button only controls traction. Full on obviously keeps you perfectly in line no matter what you try to do. Sport gives you a little bit of slip to have some fun but will bring things in order when it feels you've gone too far. Off is obviously do what you want mode.

C-63AMG

Doesn't S mode stiffen up the suspension or is it purely gears?

m3equals333

oh ok...I forget his name off the top of my head, but the guy from (Saudi?) who has the totally modded up c63 with Weistec S/C and posted the vid of him racing a Superlegga mentioned in that thread that hitting the ESP button (and putting it in sport mode) somehow maxed out the car's available torque output in addition to obviously tuning down the traction control.

Sam, not sure about S mode...def on a learning curve here with this car...

Patrick B

Okay, so when the manual says that "Sport Handling Mode" increases the torque....it's correct....IN A MANNER OF SPEAKING.

Traction control operates by two mechanisms. One, applying brakes at individual corners to slow a slipping wheel down (with or without a limited slip differential). And two, by restricting engine output (spark retardation, fuel-shut-off, and even timing retardation) when slip is detected.

So yes, Sport Handling Mode DOES allow more torque to the rear wheels, but it doesn't increase the amount of torque the engine produces. It just no longer restricts the amount of torque available when the computer detects a loss of traction.

As to suspension settings....nothing changes. Sport Handling mode doesn't change anything in the actual suspension at all. The handling part is referring to the fact that the computer will now allow you to go somewhat sideways, should your right foot encourage the rear wheels to lose grip.


Patrick

C-63AMG

Thanks Patrick,

A quick question for you.

When I am in C mode or S mode, it seems that the gears still change at the exact same rev limit? So what does S mode actually do?

Patrick B

Two things. One, it allows the use of 1st gear, which C mode (Controlled Efficiency, in MB speak) does not (C mode always starts out in 2nd gear).

And two, it shortens the shift time between gears (so instead of a lazy 250 ms between 2nd and 3rd, for example, it might be 150ms instead). The shift times are a guess on my part...I'm not certain of the specifics of how quickly the car shifts or doesn't. It's also highly dependent upon the transmission the car has (whether it's the 7G-Tronic full automatic, or the 7-speed MCT pseudo-manual / auto box).


Patrick

SaphGreyC63

For starters, S Mode starts in 1st gear as opposed to C Mode starting in 2nd gear. S Mode (and S+ for 2012 and up) do a couple things based on what I've felt. The first is that it holds the gears longer before shifting. For instance if I am crusing in C mode and I launch of the line unless I have the pedal all the way down the transmission hurriedly shifts up and up and up to the highest gear it can given the speed. For instance I would be cruising at 45-50mph and the gear will be in 6th or 7th. In S mode I see the revs go higher and at that same speed it won't go past 5th if I don't touch the paddles. In S+ at those speeds it stays in 4th. Also, in S and S+ if I am slowing down coming off from speed it downshifts by itself and rev matches (heavenly sound btw). It will not do this in C. Lastly, shifts happen much faster in S mode and alot faster in in S+.

That again is based off my own driving time and habits.

m3equals333

agreed on S+...awesome automatic downshifts, esp at higher speeds/rpms.

only thing I noticed is when putting the car into manual mode in either S or S+, a couple times the upshifts don't register and the car stays at a high RPM until I upshift again...this has never happened in M mode (although I suppose it can be purely coincidental and due to me misshifting those times when in S/S+)...I need to test it out some more

C-63AMG

Thanks guys. I have an 08 so don't have sport + but what I have noticed is that (other than the 1st gear vs 2nd gear thing), the revs for S and C change at the same limit. It's not like C changes at 6000 and S changes at 7200. They both change at the exact same rev limit so other than 1st vs 2nd start, is there any other difference?

SaphGreyC63

Its happened to me too. It makes me want to yell at the car like why aren't you upshifting!!!!

CoolBDPhenom03

C is supposed to be more tame. Maybe the previous owner drove it hard in C and the TCU hasn't relearned driving habits.

m3equals333

Wow, so I guess it is a problem. The reason I think that sucks so much is it is hard to properly time upshifting at max rpms in M mode (let alone have the S,S+ perfect upshifts). I love M mode as we can pick and choose where in the rpm range we want to drive (this is what I am used to in my MT M's) , but I wish this car had faster shifting as there is a huge lag esp when we get near the top of the rpm range. Manual + S/S+ mode rocks, just wish there was some way to correct the glitchy upshifting....

SaphGreyC63

The consensus on this forum is upshift a bit earlier before hitting the rev limiter and it will upshift when you actually want it to.

Higgs Boson

the manual mode is slow because it is routed through the network and is not a direct connection to the transmission. there is no real way around it. a tune can make it feel a little better but you will never have total control like a manual transmission.

Patrick B

Say what?? What network? Are you referring to CAN-BUS?

Manual mode (and S+) on MCT equipped cars is sub 100ms, so while that's not as quick as some of the latest dual-clutch manuals (sub 25ms shifts), the CAN-BUS isn't the reason. It's mostly a case of the MCT being a single-clutch transmission vs a dual-clutch, and the fact that it's still based on a planetary gearbox.

Of course, 7G-Tronic transmissions may be somewhat slower, given that they still use a torque-converter.

Either way, CAN-BUS isn't the slow part.



Patrick

Higgs Boson

Are we talking about the time the actual shift takes or the time it takes to go from commanded shift with the paddle to shift? I think we are talking about two different things.

The paddle to trans is delayed vs other cars. The actual shift event is fast, I agree. Not sure where you got actual shift event being slow from anything in my post but it seems to have gotten you a little worked up, so bravo.