MHP/AR Gen 2 LT Header & X-Pipe Thread???
09-10-2013, 08:03 PM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 Biturbo
MHP/AR Gen 2 LT Header & X-Pipe Thread???
Where did it go?
"If other vendors can't compete on MBW they must delete"
Please tell me that's not the case mods.
If other header manufacturers were getting sore over lost potential sales they should have made a better product. Why deprive the membership of a better product and moreso the choice to make up their own minds?
No one was discussing pricing publicly and it was a factual thread with discussion backed by other threads on MBW.
One vote to restore it.
Thank You
"If other vendors can't compete on MBW they must delete"
Please tell me that's not the case mods.
If other header manufacturers were getting sore over lost potential sales they should have made a better product. Why deprive the membership of a better product and moreso the choice to make up their own minds?
No one was discussing pricing publicly and it was a factual thread with discussion backed by other threads on MBW.
One vote to restore it.
Thank You
09-10-2013, 10:41 PM
#4
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 Biturbo
I posted a comprehensive answer to this question in the last thread. here's the quick version.
4 into 1 design provides a much broader HP/TQ curve than a TriY header which should only be used in very narrow powerband engines like Nascar or as a space concession as originally conceived by Ford in the 1960s when TriYs had their hayday.
The Gen 2 headers feature an optimal primary diameter for a 6.2L engine revving to 7000rpm, all cut and welds (and there are very few now) are parallel meaning all pipes are perfectly aligned as with the Gen 1 headers and there is no filler rod used as in the Gen 1 headers (a single non parallel cut and weld can kill power, a half dozen or more will murder it), a proper merge collector with cone and spike are used (TriYs don't have merge collectors) which builds exhaust gas velocity and NA power and torque is all about exhaust gas velocity. The collectors are now welded on vs slip on so no leaks are possible vs the Gen 1 design, the 304 SS from the merge collector back is now thicker .065". The standard X pipe is worth 12-14rwhp and 8-10rwtq over the Gen 1 design which already made the most HP and TQ of all designs. There is no rasp with the X, the part throttle "boominess" is gone from 2000-3000rpm. Basically AR and MHP worked to make the best design even better.
With a supercharger the blower does all the work and doesn't care whats on the other side of the motor so the difference in design is lessened but that said I'd still rather have a 4 into 1 design like this over a TriY.
For proven results with the old and now inferior Gen 1 design you can go to www.dragtimes.com and view the C63 results, sister site to MBW 6speedonline to view the MB 60-130 records, and last but not least you can also search for test results on this forum between 4ramin (MHP gen 1 headers with his own X pipe) vs another CA C63 owner running TriYs with X on the same dyno maybe x-typer or xtyper. 4Ramin won by a longshot. Again all this was comparing the Gen 1 design without X and other updates to a TriY except for 4ramin on the dyno.
You can also call Nick from AR or Andy from MHP directly so they can better explain since both know exponentially more than any exhaust vendor on this site as well as myself. After speaking to both and seeing the Gen 1 design in action vs Gen 2 I can tell you neither would touch a TriY with a 10ft pole.
There will be a back to back test performed by a MBW vendor in the next 2 weeks same dyno same gas same car same tune with only the headers being swapped between pulls the AR/MHP Gen 2s vs a popular TriY.
Lastly, when was the last time you saw a TriY header for a Corvette, Mustang, Camaro, Viper, etc made by any manufacturer worth mentioning? I'll leave it at that for now.
4 into 1 design provides a much broader HP/TQ curve than a TriY header which should only be used in very narrow powerband engines like Nascar or as a space concession as originally conceived by Ford in the 1960s when TriYs had their hayday.
The Gen 2 headers feature an optimal primary diameter for a 6.2L engine revving to 7000rpm, all cut and welds (and there are very few now) are parallel meaning all pipes are perfectly aligned as with the Gen 1 headers and there is no filler rod used as in the Gen 1 headers (a single non parallel cut and weld can kill power, a half dozen or more will murder it), a proper merge collector with cone and spike are used (TriYs don't have merge collectors) which builds exhaust gas velocity and NA power and torque is all about exhaust gas velocity. The collectors are now welded on vs slip on so no leaks are possible vs the Gen 1 design, the 304 SS from the merge collector back is now thicker .065". The standard X pipe is worth 12-14rwhp and 8-10rwtq over the Gen 1 design which already made the most HP and TQ of all designs. There is no rasp with the X, the part throttle "boominess" is gone from 2000-3000rpm. Basically AR and MHP worked to make the best design even better.
With a supercharger the blower does all the work and doesn't care whats on the other side of the motor so the difference in design is lessened but that said I'd still rather have a 4 into 1 design like this over a TriY.
For proven results with the old and now inferior Gen 1 design you can go to www.dragtimes.com and view the C63 results, sister site to MBW 6speedonline to view the MB 60-130 records, and last but not least you can also search for test results on this forum between 4ramin (MHP gen 1 headers with his own X pipe) vs another CA C63 owner running TriYs with X on the same dyno maybe x-typer or xtyper. 4Ramin won by a longshot. Again all this was comparing the Gen 1 design without X and other updates to a TriY except for 4ramin on the dyno.
You can also call Nick from AR or Andy from MHP directly so they can better explain since both know exponentially more than any exhaust vendor on this site as well as myself. After speaking to both and seeing the Gen 1 design in action vs Gen 2 I can tell you neither would touch a TriY with a 10ft pole.
There will be a back to back test performed by a MBW vendor in the next 2 weeks same dyno same gas same car same tune with only the headers being swapped between pulls the AR/MHP Gen 2s vs a popular TriY.
Lastly, when was the last time you saw a TriY header for a Corvette, Mustang, Camaro, Viper, etc made by any manufacturer worth mentioning? I'll leave it at that for now.
Last edited by ShellURT; 09-10-2013 at 10:45 PM.
09-10-2013, 10:49 PM
#5
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 Biturbo
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 12 (7 members and 5 guests) ShellURT*, AMGangster, BerBer63, charliekay, MBH motorsports, Swrbxxx, themailman34
09-10-2013, 11:32 PM
#7
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 Biturbo
With friends like you (speaking on behalf of the membership) who needs enemies?
Seriously if you think this thread should be locked (theres no advertising in it) because were discussing facts and your friends design isn't winning, you're hurting this site.
If you can't even debate facts, what's the point of a board like this?
Sad bro. Very sad.
Seriously if you think this thread should be locked (theres no advertising in it) because were discussing facts and your friends design isn't winning, you're hurting this site.
If you can't even debate facts, what's the point of a board like this?
Sad bro. Very sad.
Trending Topics
09-10-2013, 11:33 PM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Plenty of info already in the header sticky. No need to quote who is viewing threads and deliberately call them out on it suggest they are the sole reason a thread gets deleted/locked.
Maybe you should look into the way things are being presented. Every post has something to do with the "vendors" being inferior to everything AR/MHP do. Don't make headers well, don't know nearly what Andy knows about exhausts, no TriY for domestic cars worth noting, etc.
You think you present factual information and sure, maybe you do. But mixed in with that is some unnecessary and quite frankly annoying things that have been so repetitive over the months. Look, its life. So what if vendors are favored here and others are favored on other forums, get over it. People can go to those forums if they want.
Shell, you are literally the backbone to every Andy/MHP argument and it is so annoying. I've kept my mouth shut for the MONTHS that you have been carrying on with your antics. In no way have I favored a vendor or bashed another, look up my posts for all I care. But you have been the sole reason for myself and I'm sure other members from shying away from doing business with MHP. Judging by your signature alone I think it is clear that you have a very strong bias towards MHP to being with and if it isn't MHP then it's wrong.
I don't remember everything completely, but I think your username popped up right around one of the big MHP threads and I think it would be funny if you have some type of involvement with the business aspect of MHP because I can tell you that you have cost MHP business. In that case you'd be sabotaging yourself.
Also, to be clear, in no way am I talking down on you. Or at least that is not my intention. Just hoping you'll take a step back before starting yet another MHP/Andy thread and seriously ask yourself "who cares?"
FWIW I will sacrifice the differences in power/tq for customer service and knowing the product will actually show up any day over the potentially for such miniscule differences for most. The average person here might take their car to a drag strip once a year and a dyno day event here and there. So the differences don't matter as much.
Just my 2 cents. Again, don't mistake that for being derogatory in any way. Just saying it how it is and has been.
Maybe you should look into the way things are being presented. Every post has something to do with the "vendors" being inferior to everything AR/MHP do. Don't make headers well, don't know nearly what Andy knows about exhausts, no TriY for domestic cars worth noting, etc.
You think you present factual information and sure, maybe you do. But mixed in with that is some unnecessary and quite frankly annoying things that have been so repetitive over the months. Look, its life. So what if vendors are favored here and others are favored on other forums, get over it. People can go to those forums if they want.
Shell, you are literally the backbone to every Andy/MHP argument and it is so annoying. I've kept my mouth shut for the MONTHS that you have been carrying on with your antics. In no way have I favored a vendor or bashed another, look up my posts for all I care. But you have been the sole reason for myself and I'm sure other members from shying away from doing business with MHP. Judging by your signature alone I think it is clear that you have a very strong bias towards MHP to being with and if it isn't MHP then it's wrong.
I don't remember everything completely, but I think your username popped up right around one of the big MHP threads and I think it would be funny if you have some type of involvement with the business aspect of MHP because I can tell you that you have cost MHP business. In that case you'd be sabotaging yourself.
Also, to be clear, in no way am I talking down on you. Or at least that is not my intention. Just hoping you'll take a step back before starting yet another MHP/Andy thread and seriously ask yourself "who cares?"
FWIW I will sacrifice the differences in power/tq for customer service and knowing the product will actually show up any day over the potentially for such miniscule differences for most. The average person here might take their car to a drag strip once a year and a dyno day event here and there. So the differences don't matter as much.
Just my 2 cents. Again, don't mistake that for being derogatory in any way. Just saying it how it is and has been.
09-10-2013, 11:48 PM
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
^ Like I said, shell does have some good info. But there is a lot more than just that.
09-11-2013, 12:02 AM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or what. Just the thread that got deleted seemed to have some technical bits that could've made sense.
To be honest, I didn't really pay attention nor am I the biggest header guru in the world.
I've made my comments here though and I'll just leave it at that.
To be honest, I didn't really pay attention nor am I the biggest header guru in the world.
I've made my comments here though and I'll just leave it at that.
09-11-2013, 12:15 AM
#13
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Lets start by stating why they are not better. We have been gunned for by just about everyone who has made headers for the Mercedes. In the end we are still here, making headers to a very high standard.
When a claim is made that these (MHP/ARH) are the “best headers”. You would suspect a few things. Has the person in this post had any experience with these headers? Has the person making these claims had any experience with our product? Has there been any real data to base such a claim on? One could even suspect some are acting as puppets of that said company.
Really though, to claim to everyone that these are the “Best”, one would think you are getting a header also made out of the best materials. In my time of seeing just about every header system available for the Mercedes and many ARH systems, I have never seen an ARH system made out of 16 gauge stainless steel. It’s all been made using thin 18 gauge stainless steel. Now with the best header are you really getting the best materials in that header system.
We use heavy 16 gauge 304 stainless steel tubing in all parts of our header primary tubes, collectors, mid-section, and Xpipes. 16 gauge 304 stainless steel is much more expensive that thin 18 gauge stainless steel. To the tune of about 30% more and up in some cases.
Heat Retention: Our headers using 16 gauge stainless steel have much better heat retention than that of a header using 18 gauge stainless steel. Meaning our headers hold more heat inside the headers than that of a header made from 18 gauge stainless steel.
Sound damping: A header made of 16 gauge stainless steel will have better sound insulation than that of a header made from 18 gauge stainless steel. Meaning unwanted exhaust noise inside the cabin like header tick, lower frequency sound waves will be less from a header using 16 gauge stainless steel.
Life span: properly built headers made from 16 gauge stainless steel will have a much longer lifespan, due to its thicker walls.
We do not use middle men. We build our own stuff. We dont sub out our headers to be made by another shop. If you look at the said company’s sketchy at best practices, you would have seen glues ECU ports, multiple uses of 3rd party companies for tuning, now another header mfg making their headers. Makes you wonder how all these relationships with 3rd party companies ended.
This is very typical action from them, swap tuners, Product still the best, swap tuers again, product still the best, Make headers from a 3rd party, product the best, Make headers from another 3rd party, product still the best.
I’ve talked with Andy enough to know exactly how he types, Either you are being told what to type or you are Andy himself. BTW what was said above is generally crap when it comes to your header vs our header. You are potentially praying of the person who may not know about headers and header design. To even mention the 4 into 1 header having a merge spike and the Tri-Y not is just stupid. Anyone who knows header design, knows the Tri-Y does not need one to increase the scavenging effect, Where as the 40 into 1 needs one to help scavenge.
BTW the Mercedes CLK-DTM came stock with a Tri-Y header.
When cars are making massive power with the Weistec supercharger, what headers do they generally run? MBH.
If you are not Andy, than WHAT personal experience do you have with these “new” headers? None? so how can you even start to make claims when you have no experience what so ever with them
When a claim is made that these (MHP/ARH) are the “best headers”. You would suspect a few things. Has the person in this post had any experience with these headers? Has the person making these claims had any experience with our product? Has there been any real data to base such a claim on? One could even suspect some are acting as puppets of that said company.
Really though, to claim to everyone that these are the “Best”, one would think you are getting a header also made out of the best materials. In my time of seeing just about every header system available for the Mercedes and many ARH systems, I have never seen an ARH system made out of 16 gauge stainless steel. It’s all been made using thin 18 gauge stainless steel. Now with the best header are you really getting the best materials in that header system.
We use heavy 16 gauge 304 stainless steel tubing in all parts of our header primary tubes, collectors, mid-section, and Xpipes. 16 gauge 304 stainless steel is much more expensive that thin 18 gauge stainless steel. To the tune of about 30% more and up in some cases.
Heat Retention: Our headers using 16 gauge stainless steel have much better heat retention than that of a header using 18 gauge stainless steel. Meaning our headers hold more heat inside the headers than that of a header made from 18 gauge stainless steel.
Sound damping: A header made of 16 gauge stainless steel will have better sound insulation than that of a header made from 18 gauge stainless steel. Meaning unwanted exhaust noise inside the cabin like header tick, lower frequency sound waves will be less from a header using 16 gauge stainless steel.
Life span: properly built headers made from 16 gauge stainless steel will have a much longer lifespan, due to its thicker walls.
We do not use middle men. We build our own stuff. We dont sub out our headers to be made by another shop. If you look at the said company’s sketchy at best practices, you would have seen glues ECU ports, multiple uses of 3rd party companies for tuning, now another header mfg making their headers. Makes you wonder how all these relationships with 3rd party companies ended.
This is very typical action from them, swap tuners, Product still the best, swap tuers again, product still the best, Make headers from a 3rd party, product the best, Make headers from another 3rd party, product still the best.
I’ve talked with Andy enough to know exactly how he types, Either you are being told what to type or you are Andy himself. BTW what was said above is generally crap when it comes to your header vs our header. You are potentially praying of the person who may not know about headers and header design. To even mention the 4 into 1 header having a merge spike and the Tri-Y not is just stupid. Anyone who knows header design, knows the Tri-Y does not need one to increase the scavenging effect, Where as the 40 into 1 needs one to help scavenge.
BTW the Mercedes CLK-DTM came stock with a Tri-Y header.
When cars are making massive power with the Weistec supercharger, what headers do they generally run? MBH.
If you are not Andy, than WHAT personal experience do you have with these “new” headers? None? so how can you even start to make claims when you have no experience what so ever with them
Last edited by MBH motorsports; 09-11-2013 at 12:20 AM.
09-11-2013, 12:18 AM
#14
09-11-2013, 01:00 AM
#16
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 Biturbo
When a claim is made that these (MHP/ARH) are the “best headers”. You would suspect a few things. Has the person in this post had any experience with these headers? Has the person making these claims had any experience with our product? Has there been any real data to base such a claim on? One could even suspect some are acting as puppets of that said company.
Really though, to claim to everyone that these are the “Best”, one would think you are getting a header also made out of the best materials. In my time of seeing just about every header system available for the Mercedes and many ARH systems, I have never seen an ARH system made out of 16 gauge stainless steel. It’s all been made using thin 18 gauge stainless steel. Now with the best header are you really getting the best materials in that header system.
We use heavy 16 gauge 304 stainless steel tubing in all parts of our header primary tubes, collectors, mid-section, and Xpipes. 16 gauge 304 stainless steel is much more expensive that thin 18 gauge stainless steel. To the tune of about 30% more and up in some cases.
Heat Retention: Our headers using 16 gauge stainless steel have much better heat retention than that of a header using 18 gauge stainless steel. Meaning our headers hold more heat inside the headers than that of a header made from 18 gauge stainless steel.
Where does heat retention rank in terms of making HP/TQ???
Below optimal primary diameter, below total primary length, below shape & size of the merge collector, below the amount of primary entering the collector at zero angle, below No non parallel cut and welds (can't say the same about the TriYs), frankly it doesn't rank. All SS gets hot 16 or 18 guage, this is such an odd digression?
Sound damping: A header made of 16 gauge stainless steel will have better sound insulation than that of a header made from 18 gauge stainless steel. Meaning unwanted exhaust noise inside the cabin like header tick, lower frequency sound waves will be less from a header using 16 gauge stainless steel.
Life span: properly built headers made from 16 gauge stainless steel will have a much longer lifespan, due to its thicker walls.
We do not use middle men. We build our own stuff. We dont sub out our headers to be made by another shop. If you look at the said company’s sketchy at best practices, you would have seen glues ECU ports, multiple uses of 3rd party companies for tuning, now another header mfg making their headers. Makes you wonder how all these relationships with 3rd party companies ended.
This is very typical action from them, swap tuners, Product still the best, swap tuers again, product still the best, Make headers from a 3rd party, product the best, Make headers from another 3rd party, product still the best.
I’ve talked with Andy enough to know exactly how he types, Either you are being told what to type or you are Andy himself. BTW what was said above is generally crap when it comes to your header vs our header. You are potentially praying of the person who may not know about headers and header design. To even mention the 4 into 1 header having a merge spike and the Tri-Y not is just stupid. Anyone who knows header design, knows the Tri-Y does not need one to increase the scavenging effect, Where as the 40 into 1 needs one to help scavenge.
BTW the Mercedes CLK-DTM came stock with a Tri-Y header.
When cars are making massive power with the Weistec supercharger, what headers do they generally run? MBH.
If you are not Andy, than WHAT personal experience do you have with these “new” headers? None? so how can you even start to make claims when you have no experience what so ever with them
Again for Facts go to dragtimes.com 6speedonline.com and also search for 4ramin dyno vs xtyper to see the Gen 1s with X pipe beat the TriYs by 20rwhp and IIRC 25-28rwtq SAE on the same dyno.
09-11-2013, 01:09 AM
#17
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 Biturbo
Maybe you should look into the way things are being presented. Every post has something to do with the "vendors" being inferior to everything AR/MHP do. Don't make headers well, don't know nearly what Andy knows about exhausts, no TriY for domestic cars worth noting, etc.
You think you present factual information and sure, maybe you do. But mixed in with that is some unnecessary and quite frankly annoying things that have been so repetitive over the months. Look, its life. So what if vendors are favored here and others are favored on other forums, get over it. People can go to those forums if they want.
Shell, you are literally the backbone to every Andy/MHP argument and it is so annoying. I've kept my mouth shut for the MONTHS that you have been carrying on with your antics. In no way have I favored a vendor or bashed another, look up my posts for all I care. But you have been the sole reason for myself and I'm sure other members from shying away from doing business with MHP. Judging by your signature alone I think it is clear that you have a very strong bias towards MHP to being with and if it isn't MHP then it's wrong.
I don't remember everything completely, but I think your username popped up right around one of the big MHP threads and I think it would be funny if you have some type of involvement with the business aspect of MHP because I can tell you that you have cost MHP business. In that case you'd be sabotaging yourself.
Also, to be clear, in no way am I talking down on you. Or at least that is not my intention. Just hoping you'll take a step back before starting yet another MHP/Andy thread and seriously ask yourself "who cares?"
FWIW I will sacrifice the differences in power/tq for customer service and knowing the product will actually show up any day over the potentially for such miniscule differences for most. The average person here might take their car to a drag strip once a year and a dyno day event here and there. So the differences don't matter as much.
Just my 2 cents. Again, don't mistake that for being derogatory in any way. Just saying it how it is and has been.
09-11-2013, 01:15 AM
#18
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 Biturbo
Burns rocks but unless you're talking all out race car and have the info it's not really feasible.
Now if you want to send them pics of the MHP/AR Gen 2 vs the current TriY for their assessment, that would certainly be interesting.
09-11-2013, 01:15 AM
#19
Former Vendor of MBWorld
MHP brought a C63 header to market that was in Gen 1 form superior to yours. So what does this claim have to do with the Gen 2s not being better than a TriY?
The claim was made by Mark Pamatat the original OP of the thread you had deleted. It's backed by Nick Filippedes of AR and Andy at MHP. Call Nick or Andy anytime. AR builds bar none the best headers for any American or domestic car on the market period. Better than Stainless Works better than Kooks. So please continue to question the collaboration of the best design going in and being modified to an even better one. I have seen Gen 1 and Gen 2 back to back on the same car, ridden in it, the differences are what I said they were. This was covered in the deleted thread.
I'll have Nick sign up and post tomorrow, AR ONLY uses 16 guage .065 U.S. grade SS bent on site not the pre fab cut and weld stuff you use. That is total misinformation.
30% not a chance unless you buy 100ft at a time. Also you are completely overlooking the biggest differences between the headers in question, the design. LOL. 4 into 1 wins hands down for anything on the street, without a 2000rpm powerband or no room for a true 4 into 1. Again AR has always and will continue to use 16 guage U.S. stainless so please stop with the BS.
Design????
Where does heat retention rank in terms of making HP/TQ???
Below optimal primary diameter, below total primary length, below shape & size of the merge collector, below the amount of primary entering the collector at zero angle, below No non parallel cut and welds (can't say the same about the TriYs), frankly it doesn't rank. All SS gets hot 16 or 18 guage, this is such an odd digression?
You're kidding right? Again address the design differences. Any 3" exhaust is loud. Anyone that's ever had a stang, camaro, vette, etc knows this. Compared to 2.5" there is no comparison. You want to compare 16 guage to 18 guage based on unwanted exhaust noise? LOL. Ok the independent shop testing those TriYs vs the MHP/Gen2s will do a decibel test too but then again should it matter since they are both .065"?
Did you wiki 16 guage? MHP LTs and AR Headers have always had Lifetime Warrantys Gen 1 and Gen 2.
Oh so you have a bender on site? No you don't you just lied. You rely on prefab prebent tubing to weld in your fixtures. Fact is there are only so many mandrels in the country and even less shops capable of making an AR/MHP type header and you don't own one which is why you outsource your bends and sacrifice quality with non parallel cut and welds, filler rod welds, etc.
Reality check. Product has been the best, still is the best, now only better. Have you seen anyone run quicker or faster 0-60, 60-130, 1/8th mile, 1/4 mile, standing mile NA with any other brand of header than MHP? Nope. www.dragtimes.com www.6speedonline.com check them.
I speak with Andy daily, as you can tell by my sig he tunes my cars and they all run well, all have over the years. You can't dispute facts and again I'll gladly have Nick sign up and post in this thread tomorrow as to why he nor any of the major header manufacturers that know what they are doing will waste any time with a TriY. It's 1960s tech and the only reason it may be used today is because there wasn't enough room for the factory to fit a 4 into 1. TriYs work in Nascar, not on street cars. Speaking of a 2" primary is too large for a 6.2L motor revving to 7000rpm, another issue with that TriY design.
Addressed above and so do the 5.0L coyote ford mustangs, but guess what the aftermarket does to make more power? That's right: 4 into 1. Again space savings on Ford's part and admittedly so.
Well we have Jim's car with your headers but this was already covered with a blower it makes less of a difference because the head unit supplies the velocity and mass of air. Earl's car has custom 4 into 1s. What other massive power supercharged M156s are there? Rich aka Cart and Andy don't get along so what other header is he going to run?
With Andy's stage 2, 3 and 4 cars I ride in everyone that comes to them for a build. I saw 2 days ago a swap from a Gen 1 system to a Gen 2 on the same car with same tune and posted my feelings between the two in the thread that's now been deleted.
Again for Facts go to dragtimes.com 6speedonline.com and also search for 4ramin dyno vs xtyper to see the Gen 1s with X pipe beat the TriYs by 20rwhp and IIRC 25-28rwtq SAE on the same dyno.
The claim was made by Mark Pamatat the original OP of the thread you had deleted. It's backed by Nick Filippedes of AR and Andy at MHP. Call Nick or Andy anytime. AR builds bar none the best headers for any American or domestic car on the market period. Better than Stainless Works better than Kooks. So please continue to question the collaboration of the best design going in and being modified to an even better one. I have seen Gen 1 and Gen 2 back to back on the same car, ridden in it, the differences are what I said they were. This was covered in the deleted thread.
I'll have Nick sign up and post tomorrow, AR ONLY uses 16 guage .065 U.S. grade SS bent on site not the pre fab cut and weld stuff you use. That is total misinformation.
30% not a chance unless you buy 100ft at a time. Also you are completely overlooking the biggest differences between the headers in question, the design. LOL. 4 into 1 wins hands down for anything on the street, without a 2000rpm powerband or no room for a true 4 into 1. Again AR has always and will continue to use 16 guage U.S. stainless so please stop with the BS.
Design????
Where does heat retention rank in terms of making HP/TQ???
Below optimal primary diameter, below total primary length, below shape & size of the merge collector, below the amount of primary entering the collector at zero angle, below No non parallel cut and welds (can't say the same about the TriYs), frankly it doesn't rank. All SS gets hot 16 or 18 guage, this is such an odd digression?
You're kidding right? Again address the design differences. Any 3" exhaust is loud. Anyone that's ever had a stang, camaro, vette, etc knows this. Compared to 2.5" there is no comparison. You want to compare 16 guage to 18 guage based on unwanted exhaust noise? LOL. Ok the independent shop testing those TriYs vs the MHP/Gen2s will do a decibel test too but then again should it matter since they are both .065"?
Did you wiki 16 guage? MHP LTs and AR Headers have always had Lifetime Warrantys Gen 1 and Gen 2.
Oh so you have a bender on site? No you don't you just lied. You rely on prefab prebent tubing to weld in your fixtures. Fact is there are only so many mandrels in the country and even less shops capable of making an AR/MHP type header and you don't own one which is why you outsource your bends and sacrifice quality with non parallel cut and welds, filler rod welds, etc.
Reality check. Product has been the best, still is the best, now only better. Have you seen anyone run quicker or faster 0-60, 60-130, 1/8th mile, 1/4 mile, standing mile NA with any other brand of header than MHP? Nope. www.dragtimes.com www.6speedonline.com check them.
I speak with Andy daily, as you can tell by my sig he tunes my cars and they all run well, all have over the years. You can't dispute facts and again I'll gladly have Nick sign up and post in this thread tomorrow as to why he nor any of the major header manufacturers that know what they are doing will waste any time with a TriY. It's 1960s tech and the only reason it may be used today is because there wasn't enough room for the factory to fit a 4 into 1. TriYs work in Nascar, not on street cars. Speaking of a 2" primary is too large for a 6.2L motor revving to 7000rpm, another issue with that TriY design.
Addressed above and so do the 5.0L coyote ford mustangs, but guess what the aftermarket does to make more power? That's right: 4 into 1. Again space savings on Ford's part and admittedly so.
Well we have Jim's car with your headers but this was already covered with a blower it makes less of a difference because the head unit supplies the velocity and mass of air. Earl's car has custom 4 into 1s. What other massive power supercharged M156s are there? Rich aka Cart and Andy don't get along so what other header is he going to run?
With Andy's stage 2, 3 and 4 cars I ride in everyone that comes to them for a build. I saw 2 days ago a swap from a Gen 1 system to a Gen 2 on the same car with same tune and posted my feelings between the two in the thread that's now been deleted.
Again for Facts go to dragtimes.com 6speedonline.com and also search for 4ramin dyno vs xtyper to see the Gen 1s with X pipe beat the TriYs by 20rwhp and IIRC 25-28rwtq SAE on the same dyno.
Now I'm 100% convinced that you ARE Andy, who is banned from this site. ShellURT and the 100 other fake names you use. Mods and IB will be informed.
Stay away from this guy he's one of the shadiest people on the internet car forums.
09-11-2013, 01:20 AM
#20
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 Biturbo
There will be a back to back test performed by a MBW vendor in the next 2 weeks same dyno same gas same car same tune with only the headers being swapped between pulls the AR/MHP Gen 2s vs a popular TriY.
09-11-2013, 01:24 AM
#21
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 Biturbo
Already been verified by the mods and other members that have met me or know me that this is not true.
Sorry bud, barking up the wrong tree and I'm here to stay.
100 other fake usernames like Joseph Wilk on *********? The guy who talked and replied to himself via 50+ different verified usernames to get his site going? The one who lives with his parents and lies about going to law school? Maybe you're better off spreading the lies there where they are tolerated.
Mods ie Rock and other members who have questioned my identity before have had my cell to verify.
Have a nice night Mike, once again showing if you can't beat them with product quality, ask the mods to delete the thread. Again I'll have Nick post tomorrow to further the differences between a 4 into 1 vs a Tri Y, and to correct your misinfo on their use of 18 guage vs 16 guage at any time, maybe you can take a shot at educating him on heat retention between 16 and 18 guage LOL.
Last edited by ShellURT; 09-11-2013 at 01:26 AM.
09-11-2013, 01:57 AM
#23
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Go to just before 2 minutes in the video. ARH 18 gauge into a 16 gauge collector.
http://www.americanracingheaders.com/TGG/TGG.html
Andy, I'm not wasting my time with you or getting baited to come down to your level of doing business. I will ask the Mods to delete the thread as its clearly an advertisement for a banned company. Vendors in good standing pay money to be here. Not just me, but other vendors as well. You can have buddies come on and chat away ( like you did last time) about there product all you want. I'm rarely online other than to replay to PM's. We've got header to make, a business to run, and customers to try and keep happy. Part of keeping them happy is never gluing their ports on the ECU.
http://www.americanracingheaders.com/TGG/TGG.html
Andy, I'm not wasting my time with you or getting baited to come down to your level of doing business. I will ask the Mods to delete the thread as its clearly an advertisement for a banned company. Vendors in good standing pay money to be here. Not just me, but other vendors as well. You can have buddies come on and chat away ( like you did last time) about there product all you want. I'm rarely online other than to replay to PM's. We've got header to make, a business to run, and customers to try and keep happy. Part of keeping them happy is never gluing their ports on the ECU.
09-11-2013, 02:20 AM
#24
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 Biturbo
Go to just before 2 minutes in the video. ARH 18 gauge into a 16 gauge collector.
http://www.americanracingheaders.com/TGG/TGG.html
Andy, I'm not wasting my time with you or getting baited to come down to your level of doing business. I will ask the Mods to delete the thread as its clearly an advertisement for a banned company. Vendors in good standing pay money to be here. Not just me, but other vendors as well. You can have buddies come on and chat away ( like you did last time) about there product all you want. I'm rarely online other than to replay to PM's. We've got header to make, a business to run, and customers to try and keep happy. Part of keeping them happy is never gluing their ports on the ECU.
http://www.americanracingheaders.com/TGG/TGG.html
Andy, I'm not wasting my time with you or getting baited to come down to your level of doing business. I will ask the Mods to delete the thread as its clearly an advertisement for a banned company. Vendors in good standing pay money to be here. Not just me, but other vendors as well. You can have buddies come on and chat away ( like you did last time) about there product all you want. I'm rarely online other than to replay to PM's. We've got header to make, a business to run, and customers to try and keep happy. Part of keeping them happy is never gluing their ports on the ECU.
Um everyone uses 18 guage for primarys, hello, it's all 16 guage from the collectors back.
My name is Matt and again, not only have I been verified by mods, mbw staff and other members, I've grown up with other regularly contributing mbw members as well--they know me and my cars, not all of which are listed below.
Nick at AR is an expert, you are not, anyone that didn't carry a chip on their shoulder full of arrogance would want to hear what a true exhaust fabrication expert has to say--from Pro Stock bikes to 5000HP blown alcohol hemi's they build badass headers. ARH builds some of the nicest headers in the world as many can attest to on this forum and others of all makes and models. .
Funny how you only made a TriY for the C63 then switched over to a 4 into 1 for all other V8s. Funny how you claim to do it "all yourself" yet buy your prefab prebent tubing from an outsourced company.
You just lied to the entire board x2 upstanding Mike.
The fact is MHPs Gen 1 design was the best and the numbers speak for themselves, the AR/MHP Gen 2s improve upon the design which is hook, line and sinker as far as any debate goes.
No one makes performance aftermarket tri-Ys for any sports car on earth bro, end of story.
Gluing ECUs was 100% techtec and has been covered hundreds of times in the past years. Again the only way you can attempt to substitute for an inferior product and knowledge is to digress into the past and falsely place blame where it wasn't due.
No worries, delete this thread, Nick will start a tech thread tomorrow that you can attempt to reply to. There is no advertising in this thread, no pricing, just facts and places to find those facts.
Cry to a mod if you must but realize you can't stop progress and you're only doing the community a disservice by dragging this out. Here's to looking forward to the back to back testing.
09-11-2013, 02:22 AM
#25
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E63 Biturbo
Your blind loyalty to an inferior product is entertaining to say the least.
You and Mike are both welcome to fly out and stay in Columbus on my dime for the weekend. Then you can meet Andy and I at the same time and place so this nonsense can end. Offer is standing, let me know...
You and Mike are both welcome to fly out and stay in Columbus on my dime for the weekend. Then you can meet Andy and I at the same time and place so this nonsense can end. Offer is standing, let me know...
