Did some dyno pulls today! Stock-ish P31
03-30-2014, 10:31 PM
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2013 C63 AMG
Did some dyno pulls today! Stock-ish P31
Saw today that a local shop was hosting a dyno day for their grand re-opening, so I decided to go do some pulls on my car so that I'd have some rough baseline numbers to go off of before I start doing any heavy mods. Hoping to install some long tube headers + tune here in the near future.
I only have the AgencyPower catbacks on my car right now, so they shouldn't have any noticeable affect on the engine power since the stock headers/cats are still restricting airflow coming out of the engine. So for all intents and purposes, this is basically a stock P31 pull. Another nice data point that shows that the P31's published hp from Mercedes is underrated.
420rwhp. Pretty happy with these numbers
I only have the AgencyPower catbacks on my car right now, so they shouldn't have any noticeable affect on the engine power since the stock headers/cats are still restricting airflow coming out of the engine. So for all intents and purposes, this is basically a stock P31 pull. Another nice data point that shows that the P31's published hp from Mercedes is underrated.
420rwhp. Pretty happy with these numbers
03-31-2014, 01:33 AM
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Very nice but I am guessing our pre facelift models would be less? Plus doesn't this also depend on the altitude of the city you are in or does that not matter?
03-31-2014, 02:10 AM
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I don't know if the pre-facelift P31 would be any different than the facelifted P31. Altitude definitely matters though. I believe closer to sea level = more power due to air density (Someone correct me if I'm wrong).
03-31-2014, 03:00 AM
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W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
While the crank hp may be the same, the pre-facelift cars have a higher power loss in the torque-converter than the wet clutch MCT cars. You are correct about the altitude / air density. Same goes for temperature.
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03-31-2014, 11:00 AM
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Here is a 2010 P31 dyno done by CEK in WA on July 17 2010. Very similar results to Anthony.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...0-c63-p31.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...0-c63-p31.html
03-31-2014, 11:03 PM
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MY19AMG GT-C; MY14C63-507 - former Audi B6 S4
This is very intriguing. Has anyone put a 507 on the dyno that has charts? It would be interesting to see if there is a difference.
Someone on here (can't remember who) mentioned that the 507 vs. P31 was not that different. The person sourced a MB rep (possibly a Canadian rep) that mentioned the only difference between the P31 and P61 was the Black Series hood, Racing Strips, the Affalterbach emblem on the shifter, Matte Paint option and a few other exterior items. Very, very interesting!
-C
Someone on here (can't remember who) mentioned that the 507 vs. P31 was not that different. The person sourced a MB rep (possibly a Canadian rep) that mentioned the only difference between the P31 and P61 was the Black Series hood, Racing Strips, the Affalterbach emblem on the shifter, Matte Paint option and a few other exterior items. Very, very interesting!
-C
04-01-2014, 01:18 AM
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You may be referring to my post as I wrote something along those lines a few months ago.
I had a chat with the shop foreman at one of the corporate dealerships & AMG Performance Centers in Toronto. I was inquiring about the possibility of having them flash the ECU with the 507 tune in my 2013 APX Coupe as I figured it would be nice to get the extra 20 ponies without voiding the warranty if possible as the drivetrains are identical. His off-the-record reply was that apart from the extra menu screen in the 507 (and I don't remember if this was an option as it apparently requires a few extra accelerometers in addition to the programming), the 2012+ APX equipped cars use the same engine management system, which in turn has essentially remained unchanged since the 2010 P31 with the forged internals came out, and that the TCU map is also the same for the 507 and 2012+ MCT APX cars. The lower numbers were apparently reported by MB in order to assure that the more expensive, higher-end models using the same motor (like the CLS/E/S63) had a significant power advantage, but once all of those were powered by the more powerful 5.5L TT M157 engine and the M156 was on its way out, MB upped the power in their literature for the last year of the M156 C63 and made a few cosmetic changes in order to sell a few more cars.
AFAIK the only non-cosmetic difference was that the 507 could be optioned with forged wheels, which IIRC look identical to the cast ones but came in a darker colour.
While we haven't seen a stock 507 dyno chart yet, all dynoed stock P31 cars seem to suggest that they are in the 500+ crank hp range. The pre-MCT autos have a slightly higher transmission loss because of the torque converter, but the P31 engine outputs are pretty much the same from 2010 onwards.
I had a chat with the shop foreman at one of the corporate dealerships & AMG Performance Centers in Toronto. I was inquiring about the possibility of having them flash the ECU with the 507 tune in my 2013 APX Coupe as I figured it would be nice to get the extra 20 ponies without voiding the warranty if possible as the drivetrains are identical. His off-the-record reply was that apart from the extra menu screen in the 507 (and I don't remember if this was an option as it apparently requires a few extra accelerometers in addition to the programming), the 2012+ APX equipped cars use the same engine management system, which in turn has essentially remained unchanged since the 2010 P31 with the forged internals came out, and that the TCU map is also the same for the 507 and 2012+ MCT APX cars. The lower numbers were apparently reported by MB in order to assure that the more expensive, higher-end models using the same motor (like the CLS/E/S63) had a significant power advantage, but once all of those were powered by the more powerful 5.5L TT M157 engine and the M156 was on its way out, MB upped the power in their literature for the last year of the M156 C63 and made a few cosmetic changes in order to sell a few more cars.
AFAIK the only non-cosmetic difference was that the 507 could be optioned with forged wheels, which IIRC look identical to the cast ones but came in a darker colour.
While we haven't seen a stock 507 dyno chart yet, all dynoed stock P31 cars seem to suggest that they are in the 500+ crank hp range. The pre-MCT autos have a slightly higher transmission loss because of the torque converter, but the P31 engine outputs are pretty much the same from 2010 onwards.
04-01-2014, 02:01 AM
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The altitude won't matter for the dyno run if it has SAE correction, but the actual power produced at different altitudes certainly DOES vary. The dyno SAE correction takes the altitude multiplier into account, but all other things being equal you do get more power at the wheels at sea level than you do at 3000'.
04-01-2014, 02:33 AM
#14
Thats an annoying bot ahah.
Ya altitude matters hugeeeee in real life, but like you said, not under correction on a dyno.
At 3000ft you prob down a considerable amount of powa
Ya altitude matters hugeeeee in real life, but like you said, not under correction on a dyno.
At 3000ft you prob down a considerable amount of powa
04-01-2014, 08:53 AM
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Thats a great baseline!
What dyno does the shop have?
What dyno does the shop have?
04-01-2014, 01:43 PM
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04-02-2014, 02:51 PM
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MY19AMG GT-C; MY14C63-507 - former Audi B6 S4
You may be referring to my post as I wrote something along those lines a few months ago.
I had a chat with the shop foreman at one of the corporate dealerships & AMG Performance Centers in Toronto. I was inquiring about the possibility of having them flash the ECU with the 507 tune in my 2013 APX Coupe as I figured it would be nice to get the extra 20 ponies without voiding the warranty if possible as the drivetrains are identical. His off-the-record reply was that apart from the extra menu screen in the 507 (and I don't remember if this was an option as it apparently requires a few extra accelerometers in addition to the programming), the 2012+ APX equipped cars use the same engine management system, which in turn has essentially remained unchanged since the 2010 P31 with the forged internals came out, and that the TCU map is also the same for the 507 and 2012+ MCT APX cars. The lower numbers were apparently reported by MB in order to assure that the more expensive, higher-end models using the same motor (like the CLS/E/S63) had a significant power advantage, but once all of those were powered by the more powerful 5.5L TT M157 engine and the M156 was on its way out, MB upped the power in their literature for the last year of the M156 C63 and made a few cosmetic changes in order to sell a few more cars.
AFAIK the only non-cosmetic difference was that the 507 could be optioned with forged wheels, which IIRC look identical to the cast ones but came in a darker colour.
While we haven't seen a stock 507 dyno chart yet, all dynoed stock P31 cars seem to suggest that they are in the 500+ crank hp range. The pre-MCT autos have a slightly higher transmission loss because of the torque converter, but the P31 engine outputs are pretty much the same from 2010 onwards.
I had a chat with the shop foreman at one of the corporate dealerships & AMG Performance Centers in Toronto. I was inquiring about the possibility of having them flash the ECU with the 507 tune in my 2013 APX Coupe as I figured it would be nice to get the extra 20 ponies without voiding the warranty if possible as the drivetrains are identical. His off-the-record reply was that apart from the extra menu screen in the 507 (and I don't remember if this was an option as it apparently requires a few extra accelerometers in addition to the programming), the 2012+ APX equipped cars use the same engine management system, which in turn has essentially remained unchanged since the 2010 P31 with the forged internals came out, and that the TCU map is also the same for the 507 and 2012+ MCT APX cars. The lower numbers were apparently reported by MB in order to assure that the more expensive, higher-end models using the same motor (like the CLS/E/S63) had a significant power advantage, but once all of those were powered by the more powerful 5.5L TT M157 engine and the M156 was on its way out, MB upped the power in their literature for the last year of the M156 C63 and made a few cosmetic changes in order to sell a few more cars.
AFAIK the only non-cosmetic difference was that the 507 could be optioned with forged wheels, which IIRC look identical to the cast ones but came in a darker colour.
While we haven't seen a stock 507 dyno chart yet, all dynoed stock P31 cars seem to suggest that they are in the 500+ crank hp range. The pre-MCT autos have a slightly higher transmission loss because of the torque converter, but the P31 engine outputs are pretty much the same from 2010 onwards.
Yep, this was the post. It's still fascinating. It would be nice to see a comparison between a non-P31, P31, 507 and Black Series.
-C
04-02-2014, 04:03 PM
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You may be referring to my post as I wrote something along those lines a few months ago.
I had a chat with the shop foreman at one of the corporate dealerships & AMG Performance Centers in Toronto. I was inquiring about the possibility of having them flash the ECU with the 507 tune in my 2013 APX Coupe as I figured it would be nice to get the extra 20 ponies without voiding the warranty if possible as the drivetrains are identical. His off-the-record reply was that apart from the extra menu screen in the 507 (and I don't remember if this was an option as it apparently requires a few extra accelerometers in addition to the programming), the 2012+ APX equipped cars use the same engine management system, which in turn has essentially remained unchanged since the 2010 P31 with the forged internals came out, and that the TCU map is also the same for the 507 and 2012+ MCT APX cars. The lower numbers were apparently reported by MB in order to assure that the more expensive, higher-end models using the same motor (like the CLS/E/S63) had a significant power advantage, but once all of those were powered by the more powerful 5.5L TT M157 engine and the M156 was on its way out, MB upped the power in their literature for the last year of the M156 C63 and made a few cosmetic changes in order to sell a few more cars.
AFAIK the only non-cosmetic difference was that the 507 could be optioned with forged wheels, which IIRC look identical to the cast ones but came in a darker colour.
While we haven't seen a stock 507 dyno chart yet, all dynoed stock P31 cars seem to suggest that they are in the 500+ crank hp range. The pre-MCT autos have a slightly higher transmission loss because of the torque converter, but the P31 engine outputs are pretty much the same from 2010 onwards.
I had a chat with the shop foreman at one of the corporate dealerships & AMG Performance Centers in Toronto. I was inquiring about the possibility of having them flash the ECU with the 507 tune in my 2013 APX Coupe as I figured it would be nice to get the extra 20 ponies without voiding the warranty if possible as the drivetrains are identical. His off-the-record reply was that apart from the extra menu screen in the 507 (and I don't remember if this was an option as it apparently requires a few extra accelerometers in addition to the programming), the 2012+ APX equipped cars use the same engine management system, which in turn has essentially remained unchanged since the 2010 P31 with the forged internals came out, and that the TCU map is also the same for the 507 and 2012+ MCT APX cars. The lower numbers were apparently reported by MB in order to assure that the more expensive, higher-end models using the same motor (like the CLS/E/S63) had a significant power advantage, but once all of those were powered by the more powerful 5.5L TT M157 engine and the M156 was on its way out, MB upped the power in their literature for the last year of the M156 C63 and made a few cosmetic changes in order to sell a few more cars.
AFAIK the only non-cosmetic difference was that the 507 could be optioned with forged wheels, which IIRC look identical to the cast ones but came in a darker colour.
While we haven't seen a stock 507 dyno chart yet, all dynoed stock P31 cars seem to suggest that they are in the 500+ crank hp range. The pre-MCT autos have a slightly higher transmission loss because of the torque converter, but the P31 engine outputs are pretty much the same from 2010 onwards.
04-02-2014, 05:51 PM
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To be brutally honest, I don't like the looks of the 507. With the completely blacked-out grille, mirrors and DRLs and the IMHO hideous stripes, it looks much more like a riced-out Civic than a luxury sporty MB. Even the bonnet vents are more of a nuisance than anything. You get no significant engine cooling but you do get dirt, rain, slush and snow coming in direct contact with your engine bits. If you're going to put vents on a car to actually solve a heat dissipation issue, use them as "RAM AIR" intakes or brake cooling ducts - then yes, absolutely. Putting them on as a cosmetic add-on is... well, fake. It's like slapping AMG badges on non-AMG cars.
04-03-2014, 12:46 PM
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I have noticed the vents in the hood let out the heat when you've come to a stop. I was out smoking a cigar the other day right when I got home and could see the air distortion right over the nostrils. Not sure if they help in stop-go traffic over the traditional hood or not, but it was fun to watch.
