Valvestud

Hi Everyone,

I need your help. I've decided to do the service on my 2010 C63 (trans 722.907), and at the same time do my Daughter's 2011 C300 (trans 722.999). I'm unclear on which fluid to use on either or both. To add complication to the C300, StarTek indicates that trannys built 6/21/2010 have a new improved pan and this drives which temperature used to determine proper fluid level. The car could fall either side of that date, and I'm unclear on how to find out which version is on car.

I'm assuming the C63 has the additional trans fluid cooler, but not sure if the C300 does as well. Hopefully you all know, otherwise I'll go on StarTek and find out.

I've attached the procedure for filling the transmission and I would appreciate it if someone can make sense of it related to the above, or direct me to definitive thread or site that clearly spells out the process.

So what I need to know is:

1. Which fluid for both cars? I read somewhere one can move to newer fluid on any car, but backward.
2. What temperature to use to set levels in both cars?
3. Anyway to easily (visually from outside) know which pan setup is in the C300?
4. Should/do I "upgrade" the pan and associated parts on the C63 (and C300 if it's not), or are the newer parts what I'll get regardless when I order them up?

I'm making a special tee fitting that will allow me to put a thermocouple up into the pan, that also allows filling to get a read on temps without hooking up to StarTek.

Thanks,

Joe

roadtalontsi

The pans of the later fluid have deeper dimples. if you take a picture i can tell you. They also have a different color fill tube but that cant be seen until the pan is out. The fluid is forwards compatible but not backwards. The newer fluid is just a hair more pricey so you might as well just get the newer stuff. temperature you are looking for is 112-115 F* for both.

Valvestud

Thanks for the reply and info. I was finally able to dig through various Bevo documents and found the specifications for the fluid for the various cars. There is a switchover point that's based on serial number of the tranny. Both of the subject cars have trannys prior to the switchover. As such, I need to use fluid that complies with 236.14. I found my local distributor of Shell products stocks the ATF 134 and is only $4.93 a quart. Far cheaper than MB product. There's some indication Shell packages for MB.

Another search on StarTek for cars older than the 2011 C300 and newer, shows different parts once a 2011 has a tranny number above the switchover. So, I'll just buy the parts showing on StarTek.

Thanks again,

Joe

glennhl

I'm getting ready to do this and I bought a case of Shell ATF 134 from a local Shell distributor.

jvanbrecht

Keep in mind, I believe the Shell is a Synthetic Blend, not 100% Synthetic. I have not been able to figure out what the OEM MB stuff is. I know the Mobile 1 and Valvoline ATF 134 fluids are 100% synthetic, but appear very hard to find in the US, which is odd considering they are both American companies. (Val Synpower ATF 134 is only available in EU as far as I can tell)

I would like more info on the blue (newer) vs red (older) fluids. I have not heard anything about backwards compatibility. But then again, I have not really been looking. I'm planning on doing my ATF again since the last time I did it I ran out of time and was having issues draining the TC. Going to do it again.

jvanbrecht

Oh, and the figure out the new vs old pan, look under your car and take a picture of the pan part number (it is visible on the outside), and compare it to the redesign. If you have every had the dealer do a Tranny flush, then you will most likely have the new pan. There is a TSB notifying dealers to replace the pan when they do the service.

glennhl

Shell ATF134 meets the Mercedes specs and this site states that it's a full synthetic.

http://oilmart.com/data/products/pds...0ATF%20134.pdf

jvanbrecht

This is the description I have found on various sites selling ATF 134 Shell, this particular one from Amazon

Shell ATF 134 is a premium semi-synthetic automatic transmission fluid designed for use in Mercedes Benz 7 speed transmission. • Meets MB approval 236.14 • This product replaces all ATF products listed on MB approval 236.12 • Shell ATF 134 is approved for use for the latest NAG2V sport transmission with west starting clutch (model 0722.930, 931, 932) and the 7G-Tronic (models 722.9 / W7A 700 /NAG2). it can also be used in all 5 speed transmissions with controlled torque converter lockup clutch for vehicles with rear wheel drive (model 722.6 / W5A 580 / NAG1) • Suitable for Chrysler Crossfire, sprinter vans and other vehicles requiring shell ATF 134 or Shell ATF 3353 fluids.

Semi Synthetic == Blend

jvanbrecht

I was completely off below, left original statement below the ==== line


The keyword in the datasheet listed above is Hydrocracked. This is marketing speak for super refined oil from the ground mineral/dino based oil.

Excerpt from the link http://www.technilube.com/faqs_info/synth_diff.php

"There are five Groups of oils. Group I rarely is used anymore, while Group II is your common petroleum oil. This "hydrocracked" oil is commonly referred to as a Group III oil, while the PAO synthetics are a Group IV. Group V oils do exist, but are uncommon, and typically not often used for automotive use."

This is not technically true synthetic, which starts at Group IV ... So I stand by my statement, ATF 134 by Shell is a synthetic blend

I'm curious if this also make the MB OEM stuff that MB Parts dep sells is also synthetic blend. I remember hearing something that MB OEM stuff is just repackaged Shell and Fuch


================================================== ================================================== =============


Also, from the data sheet you linked. Marketing speak can be confusing, and in some cases intentionally misleading. I am not saying this is the case, just something to think about. The additives statement could also include other oil blends, even if it is premium, that does not preclude mineral oils.

Performance Features and Benefits

Shell ATF 134 is a high performance ATF
formulated with hydrocrack synthetic basic oils,
combined with premium quality latest technology
performance additives.

jvanbrecht

And lets add Fucsh Titan 4134 to the list of synthetic blends.. From the datasheet for 4134

"Selected HVI base oils used (Gp. III plus)"

Group 3 super refined oil... again, not true synthetic..


Sorry, I hijacked the thread heh...

Now.. time to go find Mobil 1 ATF 134.. if anyone has any ideas.. I'm all ears.

Valvestud

Other sites I've seen indicate semi-synthetic, which would make sense.

Valvestud

I was able to find the TSB and it indicates that since 02/04 that pan was changed. All of the "new" parts in that TSB correspond to the parts for my two cars in StarTek. So I would already have the revised pan design.

Thanks,

Joe

glennhl

Excellent info, thank you very much. I do feel fine though with the blend since it meets the Merc specs.

bhamg

I'm doing a trans fluid change in a few weeks. Here's info from the Mobil 1 site on Synthetic ATF. Based on the approvals I'm taking a pass. If the OE M-B red fluid is the same as Fuchs that's good enough for me.

Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)
@ 40ºC 36.3
@ 100ºC 7.4
Viscosity Index 176
Brookfield Viscosity, cP (ASTM D2983)
@ -40ºC 10,040
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -51
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 220
Density @15.6 ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.846
Color Red

Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is a multi-vehicle formula recommended for use in modern high performance automobiles, SUV's, SUT's, vans and other light trucks.

It is recommended by ExxonMobil for use in applications requiring DEXRON® III, Ford MERCON® and MERCON® V performance levels.

Meets or exceeds the off-highway power transmission requirements of Allison C-4.

Recommended by ExxonMobil for use in any power steering unit where a DEXRON® or MERCON® fluid is recommended.

jvanbrecht

The Mobil 1 ATF in the US is not the same as Mobil 1 ATF 134 that is sold in Europe. For some reason it is not available here. At least I could not find it.

bhamg

Ahhh. So if it's sold as a synthetic oil in Europe then it's Gr 4/5 based. That's appealing.

jvanbrecht

That's my understanding. I could be wrong, but I believe that I read the data sheets correctly.

roadtalontsi

Mercedes says the fluid is not backwards compatible... however whenever you get a new valve body it has some blue fluid in it from the bench testing and calibration. whether or not it's going in a new or old one. The transmission pan update was for the very very early 7spds. When they switched to the blue fluid the transmission pan also changed. It's not really a revision with any benefits or updates to it. just uses a different fill tube and has bigger dimples. The 2003 7spd's had problems caused from the original transmission pans hence the bulletin.

fraktv

Can someone tell me if my 2010 C63 has the updated transmission pan. The P/N stamped on the pan is A221 270 12 12. Seeing that the one side is sloped, I think means it's the updated one.

Thanks,
Vlad

jvanbrecht

Yes, you have the updated pan. The old pan did not have the sloped front bezel. Also, the part number is for the redesigned pan.

fraktv

Thanks jvanbrecht. I'm curious to know what dealers are charging for the tranny flush service. I thought I've seen it as low as $400, but my dealer is charging $591. They just did a bunch of excellent free warranty work on my car, so I feel a little obligated/inclined to give them some of my business, but not $591. He was willing to hear/see what other dealers are charging.

Valvestud

My Daughter was quoted $435 for her 2011 C300 in Tucson. Same tranny and parts as my C63, but not an AMG. I suspect it would be higher for my car, but don't really care cuz I'm doing it myself.

Regards,

Joe

bhamg

In SoCal I've been quoted between $500 and $560 by three dealers.

bhamg

One other thing. How will you know if the dealer drains the torque converter? Both of my SA's would make sure of that but I suspect many techs would skip that step. Make sure the fluid reflects it I guess.