wankeldude

There is a very good opportunity to bring E85 to a gas station in the Lower Mainland and we are conducting a survey to see what people in the area think about being able to get the fuel out of a gas station pump without having to cross the border or buy drums or jerry cans. We are targeting a very specific niche market of tuned/performance vehicles with forced induction/high compression. If you or anyone you know is interested in this please fill out the survey and pass it along! It will help us solidify plans to bring in E85 to a gas station pump in the Greater Vancouver area.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Fuel_Survey_2014

Thanks for your time

604 C63

Im in the 604, but theres no survey dude.

Mort

Bad link?

wankeldude

sorry guys. fixed. the link had gotten truncated

wankeldude

E85 is now available in West Vancouver, British Columbia.
Arcade station - 4370 Marine Drive

CarHopper

E85 is a good option for turbo cars. I don't see the benefit to NA and would just put in race gas instead.

That said, I ran E85 in my 135i because we have it all over here

JRHolt

According to the 2014 owners manual we are not supposed to use E85.

My 2013 ML350 is rated for E85 and I use it quite often here in Dallas

abcut973

Nice GTR. Are you on GTRlife?

wankeldude

I am indeed! wankeldude!

Here in vancouver, the best fuel available is 94 octane. Unfortunately, our 94 octane has zero ethanol and does not perform as 94 octane should (compared to even 92 octane US fuel)

Many high compression NA cars and turbo cars have been either going into limp mode or pulling a great deal of timing to deal with this crappy fuel. A 10% splash of E85 into the 94 has fixed this issue for us with our GT-R's and also cars like the FRS/BRZ...

From there of course we've gone to straight E85 tunes or even better - Flex Fuel kits which adapts the fuel timing on the fly with an inline ethanol content sensor.

Tiger1818

Why does the 94 octane not perform as it should?

-Marlin-

....and why would you want ethanol in your gas?

I'd avoid it like the plague if I could.

wankeldude

- Combustion temperatures over 100deg cooler than gasoline
- Autoigntion temperatures over 200deg higher than gasoline (detonation resistance)
- Octane value of over 100 for E85
- Much cleaner burning
- Powahh!!!!:

The Arcade E85 GT-R was on the mustang dyno yesterday...927whp 774tq on E85:

Merc63

I run strictly 94oct with 10% ethanol. Runs like a champ. Car pulls timing on 91 no ethanol.

E85 is useless for anyone with a c63. There is zero tunes for it and these aren't flex cars.

rage2

E85 is useless for anyone that's not turbo/SC'd. I guess it's useful for NA cars if you're a modern day facebook tree hugger.

Thrilla

Agreed. Too much work. You'll have to upgrade your fuel pump, injectors, and the tune has to be spot on for varying ethanol blends throughout the year.
I have dual maps for my Evo 9 for both 93 and E85. The gains are substantial, but I don't know if it's worth it for a NA engine.

Tinbucket

There is something wrong totally with this post. Ethanol burns hotter. It is destructive to most fuel lines also. Ninety four octane pure gasoline has higher energy and delivers more power gallon vs gallon of ten percent ethanol or eight five ethanol. If you have a custom program and so on it will make more power but at the expense, of using twice as much or whatever the actual percentages of fuel. I never would use Ethanol in a drag engine or my car engine, on the road. It is being forced on us by political big bucks of Corn Lobby. I've talked with many who run 2,500hp or better street rods and they won't use it either. If you have your computer tuned for 85% Ethanol, gasoline will sure run funny in the car.

kgmuse

I'm not sure injectors or a fuel pump are needed. yes it wears the pump and filter out a bit quicker (less lubrication properties). BMW 335s and 135s don't have to change any of those, and I'd be surprised if those cars are running bigger injectors than a gas hog like the M156 motor.

wankeldude

ahhh, all the misinformation...anyway, here are the facts:

1. Flame temps of alcohols are lower than those of aromatics....and has a much higher auto-ignition temperature...

Ethanol flame temp: http://www.iea-amf.org/content/fuel_...nol_properties

Ethanol Autoignition temp is HIGHER than gasoline by nearly 200 deg F: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fu...res-d_171.html

2. Besides the huge benefit for forced induction vehicles, any car with higher static compression that is NOT forced induction will suffer on plain 94 octane fuel in BC which contains NO ETHANOL. We have had numerous cases of vehicles with high compression ratios (ie. BRZ, FRS have 12.5:1) that are pulling significant amounts of timing and even audibly knocking on 94 octane fuel without ethanol. Adding ethanol to make up the missing 10% has corrected this problem on completely stock vehicles.

Some really good info...

http://www.wired.com/2011/06/five-et...yths-busted-2/
http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths

wankeldude

If you are in BC, our 94 octane fuel contains zero ethanol. And our cars do not run like champs on it. My non-perf pack C63 ran just okay on it, but remember that these non-perf pack C63's have ECU constrained HP based on limited throttle position. At 11.3:1 CR with the M156 6.2L power and timing are affected with BC 94 octane.

Tiger1818

I live here in Victoria,B.C. and have been running the 94 octane solely.
I find this all very interesting. Doesn't the octane number give a measure of a gasolines's resistance to detonation?
How does the 94 octane pull timing from our engines? I sincerely don't know.
I thought some cars when using higher octanes will automatically advance their timing.
My vehicle seems to run well on the 94, it is also a non PP C63.
If the 94 pulls timing, what are the suggestions to use as fuel so as to avoid this?
Thank you for your help

wankeldude

my C63 also ran well enough on just 94 octane alone. And yes, 94 octane fuel is rated as such using AKI, which is an average of RON and MON measurements. However, when we (and many other local tuners in the area) tested the fuel to see how much timing it would support on various vehicles, the results were startling. Our 94 octane fuel here in BC was not even able to support the kind of tune that most vehicles using 91 octane US fuel could support. There can only be two possibilities. Either our 94 octane fuel is not really 94 octane (who's gonna call them on it?), OR the lack of ethanol content in our 94 octane fuel is the cause.

In every case we tested, simply adding 10% ethanol to the 94 was enough to allow the fuel to support the kind of tune that 93 octane US fuel was capable of.

I think for non-perf pack cars, the straight 94 octane is enough since the fuel/timing map doesn't push the limits of what the engine is capable of. But the M159 and M156 perf pack engines are likely experiencing timing adjustments (pulling timing) in order to prevent knocking.

Tiger1818

Thank you for your explanation.....I appreciate it. I will be in Van this weekend and might pop by to try a splash in my tank for experimental purposes. Are you on SW Marine?
If my calculations are right...I think I would need about 7 litres of E85 added to a tank of 94 to give a 10% final ethanol concentration.

wankeldude

If you have time, come by on Sunday. It's our grand opening celebration! BBQ, tons of cars, and lots of fun. We're in West Vancouver at 4370 Marine Drive. Hope you have time to drop by and chat some more!