RawBenz

Has anyone done this mod?
What gains?
Is it really beneficial because it's close to $4000

mr747

Subscribed

ruey220

if you're looking into it you might as well check out renntech's. looks like they are larger by 2mm on kleemanns.

SmittyAMG

Right off Kleenann's website.

63-K1: A sophisticated new ECU software. Up to 540 HP and 650 Nm (481 lb-ft) of torque.

63-K2: K1 + a set of long-tube exhaust manifolds (front cat delete system, LHD cars only). Up to 575 HP and 720 Nm (533 lb-ft) of torque.

63-K3: K2 + a large throttle system and a set of hi-flow air filters. Up to 590 HP and 730 Nm (541 lb-ft) of torque.

Based on this, with high flow air filters, it adds 15HP if headers are already installed and you are using a tune from them (maybe others?)

Kriston

Upgraded throttles will not just yield higher HP, your throttle response will improve as well.


For the price, I would stick with Long tubes + Tune and be done with it.

johnnyblaze

11 crank horsepower for $4,000?

Sign me up!

RawBenz

If installed will I need a retune?

ruey220

get it from the one who buys it for $4k and figures out his car doesn't end up faster than an SLS and sells it for $2k.

roadtalontsi

it's probably the sls intake manifold

Maverick1975

I defy anyone to feel 15hp difference. Just get your tuner to get existing throttle bodies to open to their maximum and save the cash. Guys on this forum including myself have been asking dyno proof of any of these gains from Kleeman for years and nothing has been produced. Just get forced induction

whoover

I don't understand the theory behind this mod. On the supercharged S55, etc., the throttle body was a limitation. It was worthwhile to increase the stock 74mm throat to 82 mm, as many tuners did.

But the M156 has dual 70 mm throats. That's 46% more area than even the 82 mm throat on the modded version of the engine this replaced. How is that going to be a limiting factor?

Dual 70's already flow more than the engine can use so what's the point of dual 82's?

Merc63

Throttle plates don't even open all the way. I haven't confirmed this on just a tune car, but on the blower cars, they open to 87%.

I think this is the same on tunes too? Maybe someone can confirm.

Southways

Except at WOT, a well designed throttle body should have the same modulation/response as OE. The feeling of better responsiveness will often come from the progressive ramps being removed which simply yields more air at less pedal position, typically making the car harder to drive smoothly. Kinda like changing the cam profile on a cable TB.

Are you actually measuring the plate position or reading the TPS? In many (most) OE ECU's the displayed TPS angle ("Absolute TPS") reported through the CAN-bus to the OBDII is truncated pre-90 degrees. The PID of "ETC Position" is more likely to be the true angle, however that may not always be able to be interrogated.
For something to consider ...
At 87% it may be WOT. The seat angle will typically be ~5 degrees and if seat is zero, then WOT is 85. Or, if seat is set at 5 and 90 is WOT, the "shadow" of the shaft will probably be more than 3 degrees so it is unlikely to have any more flow at 90 than 87.

Merc63

Idle is 14%, wot is 87% according to absolute throttle position via odb.