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It sounds as though MB/AMG have been recommending M1 5w40 for some time. I wasn't aware of the older MB "newschannel" recommendation. I know there was another from AMG in Jan/Feb of '12. Perhaps they feel the "reiteration" is necesary...
Regarding dealer fill; one member received 5w30 in his C63, that doesn't make it the appropriate oil for M156 application.
M1 0w40 may be approved, but that doesn't make it better than M1 5w40 for M156 application.
M1 0w40 may very well have the superior anti-wear profile, but again, that doesn't make it the best for M156 application.
MB/AMG have been telling AMG service centers this as far back as '07 (news to me, I knew about '12). There is a reason for the switch. Who here knows more about the M156 than the AMG engineers behind it?
Then we have Diabolis, who as asserting that factory fill is 0w40, but on the page Ingenieur posted I found him asserting that factory fill is M1 5w40 (verified by his AMG service department, the "largest in Canada" he says)...
Originally Posted by mdgrwl
Does anyone know for sure what the factory fill is on the newer 2012/2013 c63 ? I would like to buy a few qts to top off.
Originally posted by Diabolis
I wasn't there to see with my own eyes what they were actually filing up the car with at the factory when it was made, but my dealer (largest AMG Performance Center in Canada) tells me it's Mobil 1 Formula M 5W40 for sure. They even sold me a bottle of it in case I need to top it off at the track.
Out of 5 oil changes
2 5w40
3 0w40 all at AMG service centers
Bevo specs both as of 9/2014, it is current, the nebulous stuff isn't
This is online vs some doc no one can see
AMG pl last week said both are ok
I'm due for a change soon, I'll get the doc from my sa if it exists
If the 0 weight is approve it does make it as good as the 5 weight
It may be better since it is what MB/AMG currently uses
And the 0 wt IS approved, not may be approved
The bevo document specs 229.5 for the M156 for every where but western europe
The weight must be 0W40 or 5W40
Is this correct?
There is confusion with some believing only the 5W40 is approved and/or recommended
Is bevo incorrect?
The dealer has been using 0W40 in mine
Dear Ingenieur,
Thanks for your request!
We have checked with our After Sales Team and you can use both oils.
Please take a look in our overall list for the specification “229.5”, where you can find the usable engine oils: http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html
I hate to belabor a point but there are rumors of secret documents (news chanell, memos, etc) from circa 2008 and/or 2012 that purportedly state ONLY 229.5 spec 5w40 (NOT 0w40) is approved or recommended for use in the m156? That the 5w40 is better.
The bevo document is current (late 2014) and clear that both are approved and therefore recommended.
In my opinion either is fine and will give similar performance.
Thank you for your indulgence in such a simple matter.
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Originally Posted by Vash
It sounds as though MB/AMG have been recommending M1 5w40 for some time. I wasn't aware of the older MB "newschannel" recommendation. I know there was another from AMG in Jan/Feb of '12. Perhaps they feel the "reiteration" is necesary...
Regarding dealer fill; one member received 5w30 in his C63, that doesn't make it the appropriate oil for M156 application.
Exactly. It turns out that what the dealerships put in has nothing to do with what is actually approved by the AMG engineers.
Originally Posted by Vash
M1 0w40 may be approved, but that doesn't make it better than M1 5w40 for M156 application.
Wrong. It is better in absolutely all aspects relating to engine wear and protection. That is not an opinion - it's a fact. And, the Formula M 5W40 (ESP - the only one still available here and there) isn't even approved for use in NA.
Originally Posted by Vash
M1 0w40 may very well have the superior anti-wear profile, but again, that doesn't make it the best for M156 application..
Define best... best for what? For what comes out your tailpipe and the cataytic converters, you are correct - it is not the best. For everything else, it is superior to the (unapproved and no longer made) Formula M 5W40 ESP.
Originally Posted by Vash
MB/AMG have been telling AMG service centers this as far back as '07 (news to me, I knew about '12). There is a reason for the switch. Who here knows more about the M156 than the AMG engineers behind it?
Only partially correct. The AMG engineers who designed the M156 never approved a non 229.5-spec oil for the North American market. At the traiging seminars some of the techs may have been told that a thicker oil masks the premature valvetrain wear symptoms until the warranty runs out (which obviously suits the service centers as they don't have to pony up for the repairs out of pocket), but there was no official "switch" that was endorsed by AMG and there was no memo. It was what some dealerships decided to put in, which as you yourself pointed out, has ranged from 5W30 to Castrol 10W60. There is no evidence whatsoever that the service centers outside of Europe have ever been told anything of the sort.
Originally Posted by Vash
Then we have Diabolis, who as asserting that factory fill is 0w40, but on the page Ingenieur posted I found him asserting that factory fill is M1 5w40 (verified by his AMG service department, the "largest in Canada" he says)...
And as I have since pointed out, the dealerships are full of $h!te because they have no clue themselves and are putting in unapproved oil. The parts department said one thing when they sold me the "top-up" bottle in the aforementioned post (EDIT: for the record, the non-ESP Formula M WAS 229.5 APPROVED but already on the way out in 2013 and worse for engine wear than the 0W40), and for a short while I believed them. Then at my first oil change the service guys said something else, which I later confirmed with the shop foreman, and the 0W40 went in. WHAT THE ENGINEERS APPROVE IS ALWAYS ON BEVO. The *ONLY* oil spec ever allowed outside of Western Europe for the M156 motor HAS ALWAYS BEEN 229.5 (Mobil 1 0W40), NOT the 229.51 (Mobil 1 Formula M 5W40 ESP). There are other 229.5 spec 5W40 oils, but the Formula M ESP is NOT one of them. It simply doesn't have the detergents and additives to deal with our crappy gas.
Aside form your personal and incorrect opinion, please show us ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that the 5W40 is better than the 0W40 or that the Formula M 5W40 (ESP) was ever approved for use in the M156 motor outside of Western Europe.
I hate to break it to you, but you're obviously worried about the very real possiblity of premature valvetrain wear on your own C63, and as a result you're grasping at straws and doing everything possible in order not to face the facts. I certainly sympathize with you in that regard, but you are just in denial. If it makes a clatter with the Mobil 1 0W40, you've got mechanical problems. It really is that simple.
- Mobil 1 5W-40 for M156 engine (63er models)
- Mobil 1 0W-40 all other AMG engines (as well the AMG diesel engines that was used for the C 30 AMG)
- Mobil 1 5W-50 SLR engine
Before that change, the Mobil 1 0W-40 was used for the 63 models as well.
We hope that this information helps.
Best regards
AMG Private Lounge Team
Then we have...
Originally posted by Diabolis
The *ONLY* oil spec ever allowed outside of Western Europe for the M156 motor HAS ALWAYS BEEN 229.5
Click the link to 229.5 below. Scroll down to the Mobil 1 oils. The only M1 5w40 listed is Formula M, not the ESP (Emission System Protection). So, your entire argument about "cat protection" is null and void.
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Originally Posted by Vash
Also from the page Ingenieur quoted;
...
Then we have...
Click the link to 229.5 below. Scroll down to the Mobil 1 oils. The only M1 5w40 listed is Formula M, not the ESP (Emission System Protection). So, your entire argument about "cat protection" is null and void.
M1 0w40 will probably be fine, but AMG did in fact change the recommended oil for the M156 to M1 Formula M 5w40.
The dead horse has been beaten to death with another dead horse.
You obviously missed the part "This occurs as the automotive fluid standards have changed in the meantime (in May 2008)", which would be ACEA 2008 and THUS IRRELEVANT FOR NORTH AMERICA. Furthermore, it was about ENVOIRNMENTAL FRIENDLINESS AND FUEL EFFICIENCY (I pointed this out before). Can't quite figure out if you're blind or have short-term memory problems. And no, the environmental argument is NOT null and void. Try to find some NON-ESP Formula M 5W40 specs and see in what areas it is better than the 0W40 and in what areas worse.
As for the *NON-ESP* M1 Formula M 5W40, it was discontinued. Some dealperships incorrectly put in the ESP Formula M 5W40. Others switched back to using 0W40 as it is the only Mobil 1 oil still made that has the right viscosity for the M156 and meets the 229.5 spec. Yes, the old NON-ESP Formula M 5W40 was approved. Now that MB needs an even more environmentally friendly oil to meet new Euro pollution standards, the Formula M 5W40 (ESP or not) is no longer made.
I always appreciate and welcome constructive criticism, so please educate me - in what way is the Formula M 5W40 better than the 0W40? What specifc property of the 5W40 is better than the same property of the 0W40? If you can't actually come up with anything other than regurgitating the same incomlete paragraph portion from one single post on the PL where you chose to ignore the explanation WHY the Europeans were putting in 5W40, please do us a favour and stop. We all know where you stand and why you're doing it. I would suggest you pull your head out of the sand and instead focus your energies on getting MB to service your engine while it's still under warranty (assuming that you haven't voided it with a tune or some other aftermarket engine tweak). Please.
When I pull up the latest 229.5 online, there are two 0W-40 M1 oils listed. There's the one we're all used to and that you write about, and there's also "Mobil 1 New Life 0W-40". Any comments on the relative differences between the two. Perhaps it will replace the base 0W-40??
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Originally Posted by Valvestud
D,
When I pull up the latest 229.5 online, there are two 0W-40 M1 oils listed. There's the one we're all used to and that you write about, and there's also "Mobil 1 New Life 0W-40". Any comments on the relative differences between the two. Perhaps it will replace the base 0W-40??
Click the link to 229.5 below. Scroll down to the Mobil 1 oils. The only M1 5w40 listed is Formula M, not the ESP (Emission System Protection). So, your entire argument about "cat protection" is null and void.
M1 0w40 will probably be fine, but AMG did in fact change the recommended oil for the M156 to M1 Formula M 5w40.
The dead horse has been beaten to death with another dead horse.
that is inaccurate
AMG recommends 5w40 or 0w40 per their response less than 1 week ago
bevo, AMG and AMG via PL
the information you have is 6 years old and been superceded
to say they only recommend 5w40, or recomend it over 0w40 is false
the 2 are equal and interchangeable
at least according to AMG as of last week and the published bevo data
Dear Ingenieur,
Thanks for your request!
We have checked with our After Sales Team and you can use both oils. Please take a look in our overall list for the specification “229.5”, where you can find the usable engine oils: http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html
M 152, M 157, M 133, M 156, M 159, M 275, M 277, M 279, M 285 (Maybach) and AMG engines except M 155 (SLR) 229.5 2) 2.) Restriction: Only SAE 0W-40 und SAE 5W-40 engine oils are allowed !
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Motorenöl just means motor oil in German. AFAIK there is no such brand, ja? Zee needs to look at zee bottle better und find some other wordz, Herr Jasonoff.
that is inaccurate
AMG recommends 5w40 or 0w40 per their response less than 1 week ago
bevo, AMG and AMG via PL
the information you have is 6 years old and been superceded
to say they only recommend 5w40, or recomend it over 0w40 is false
the 2 are equal and interchangeable
at least according to AMG as of last week and the published bevo data
Dear Ingenieur,
Thanks for your request!
We have checked with our After Sales Team and you can use both oils. Please take a look in our overall list for the specification “229.5”, where you can find the usable engine oils: http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html
Best regards, Your AMG Private Lounge Team
Note bevo rev date Last update: 11/03/2014
The issue here is semantics. I'm not trying to argue that M1 0w40 isn't an approved oil. When you say "recommended" you're talking about the entire list of approved oils (229.5, 229.51, 229.52), but when I say recommended I mean "preferred" (by AMG/MB). Which, by the way, is how "recommended" is used the the PL response (the context of that answer was in regards to Mobil 1 0w40 vs M1 5w40, not 0w40 vs 5w40 in general).
The "take away" from the PL message is the acknowledgement of the change in recommended (preferred) oil for factory fill and dealer fill from Mobil 1 0w40 to Mobil 1 5w40. This, in context to the question answered in the PL. The question was in regards to the possible change from Mobil 1 0w40 to 5w40. The answer, Mobil 1 5w40 is now recommended (preferred) over 0w40. It does not state that 0w40 is no longer approved, just not "preferred". "Before that (change) 0w40 was used..." in the answer refers to factory fill and dealer fill (where 5w40 is now the factory fill and should be the dealer fill). There are a number of approved 0w50's and 5w40's but only one can be the recommended (preferred) oil for the M156. That would be Mobil 1 Formula M 5w40.
Diabolis- you're all over the place with your argument and every time I call you on your bs you go back and edit your posts and spout more faux facts. You aren't very good at this.
The issue here is semantics. I'm not trying to argue that M1 0w40 isn't an approved oil. When you say "recommended" you're talking about the entire list of approved oils (229.5, 229.51, 229.52), but when I say recommended I mean "preferred" (by AMG/MB). Which, by the way, is how "recommended" is used the the PL response (the context of that answer was in regards to Mobil 1 0w40 vs M1 5w40, not 0w40 vs 5w40 in general).
The "take away" from the PL message is the acknowledgement of the change in recommended (preferred) oil for factory fill and dealer fill from Mobil 1 0w40 to Mobil 1 5w40. This, in context to the question answered in the PL. The question was in regards to the possible change from Mobil 1 0w40 to 5w40. The answer, Mobil 1 5w40 is now recommended (preferred) over 0w40. It does not state that 0w40 is no longer approved, just not "preferred". "Before that (change) 0w40 was used..." in the answer refers to factory fill and dealer fill (where 5w40 is now the factory fill and should be the dealer fill). There are a number of approved 0w50's and 5w40's but only one can be the recommended (preferred) oil for the M156. That would be Mobil 1 Formula M 5w40.
Diabolis- you're all over the place with your argument and every time I call you on your bs you go back and edit your posts and spout more faux facts. You aren't very good at this.
No semantics
AMG says they are equal
0w40 OR 5w40
Not 0w40 if you can't get 5w40
AMG via PL says both are acceptable, no mention of preference
My sa says the 2008 guidance doc has been voided and superceded
Dealers are using 0w40 as the prefered weight for the m156 per AMG guidance
It lessens lifter noise and provides better start-up lubrication
Most wear occurs then
The 0w40 is far superior to the 5w40
Higher viscosity 100 c
Higher flashpoint
Higher viscosity index
Higher base number
Higher flashpoint
And better cold start-up performance
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
I edit my posts to fix the stupid double-space blank lines that IE puts in, fix spelling mistakes or add additional, relevant information. Besides, you can only edit your last post, not stuff you have written earlier, but again, I challenge you to please explain to me why my posts are BS and yours are correct. I have presented factual empirical evidence about the oils and so has Ingenieur, yet you keep arguing the opposite but fail to provide any proof or explanation. I think the readers can decide themselves what is BS and what isn't.
And, in my BS I have answered your "preferred" oil question at least twice, so here it is for the third time: even if the (non-ESP) 5W40 Formula M was at some point in time "preferred" as you like to call it, the REASON for the "preferred" status was environmental friendliness (adherence to lower emissions and better fuel consmption), NOT better engine protection. No semantics and no BS. If that is what you were trying to say all along, congratulations - you are completey correct. But if instead you're still tryign to deny the existence of a possible problem in your engine and are trying to convince us that the 5W40 is a better oil IN TERMS OF ENGINE PROTECTION than the 0W40, you are indeed deluding yourself. Besides, the Formula M 5W40 is no longer made, so it's a moot point at best.
And, I do take issue with your statement that there is only one recommended (or preferred as you like to call it) oil for the M156. It actually depends on a number of other factors like the final desitantion of the vehicle and the local regulations. If you live in Europe where the gasoline is much cleaner than ours and people religiously adhere to shorter service intervals, you can get away with using a more environmentaly friendly oil with fewer additives. If you live in North America where we get garbage from the pumps and people whine about the cost of servicing their vehicles and push it to the maximum allowed mileage, you need an oil that can take more abuse and offers more protection. That is exactly why the BEVO specs for Western Europe are different from the rest of the world.
P.S. And no, I am not all over the place. I have always and still do claim that the M1 0W40 is a better oil than the M1 5W40 regardless of what the dealerships say or put in the cars.
And, in my BS I have answered your "preferred" oil question at least twice, so here it is for the third time: even if the (non-ESP) 5W40 Formula M was at some point in time "preferred" as you like to call it, the REASON for the "preferred" status was environmental friendliness (adherence to lower emissions and better fuel consmption), NOT better engine protection. No semantics and no BS. If that is what you were trying to say all along, congratulations - you are completey correct. But if instead you're still tryign to deny the existence of a possible problem in your engine and are trying to convince us that the 5W40 is a better oil IN TERMS OF ENGINE PROTECTION than the 0W40, you are indeed deluding yourself. Besides, the Formula M 5W40 is no longer made, so it's a moot point at best.
Since Ing dragged that other oil thread out again, what I didn't mention there - not wanting to get into a pissing contest about mixing oils - is that when I was using ESP at every oil change I added one L of this (in 5W-40):
2010 C63 AMG RIP. 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road, 2013 C63 coupe
Originally Posted by Jasonoff
Now that I'm outside of factory warranty I will likely stop using Mobil 1 since there are higher quality oils approved. I'm located in North America so I'm not looking at the 229.51 spec sheet at all.
With the above in mind has anyone done any actual research (not personal opinion) on any of the other approved oils listed?
If I can find it here in Canada (likely not lol) I'm considering a switch to Shell Helix Ultra or Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 Full Synthetic.
I have been using liqui moly 5w40 for years. It is the winner of several comparisons including mobile1 and it's approved and available in the US and less expensive.
Old thread this, but seems to have some clued up oil guys in one place so ill take advantage of that. Took the car (2008 C 63 P30) for a B service at the MB dealer and they changed the oil to shell helix ultra extra 5W30 which is odd because I thought it had to be Mobil 1 and a 40. Just noticed it on the receipt when I got home and doing some research it is the correct oil according to Shell. See link below. Any input from you guys?
11-16-2014, 07:21 PM
